Posted on 11/16/2014 1:42:01 PM PST by NYer
I don't.
Apples and oranges.What's hard to understand about REMAINING in Jesus versus doubting whether He has given you Eternal Life?
Scene: New York City, man is going to jump off the building. Up rushes good Irish cop. Cop yells up to the man “Don’t jump! Think of your father”
Man replies “Haven’t got a father; I’m going to jump.”
The copy goes through a list of relatives, mother, brothers, sister, etc. Each time man says “haven’t got one; going to jump.”
Desperate the cop yells up “Don’t jump! Think of the Blessed Virgin”
Man replies “Who is that?”
Cop yells “Jump, Protestant! You’re blocking traffic!”
Rev. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Here God/Jesus is talking not to the unsaved, but to the “Churches.” When I walked away from the Catholic Church and embraced evangelical Christianity they preached what many here proclaim...once saved, once forgiven, you can do no wrong, Book of Life, you have been given a white robe...etc.
But I would suggest to many to read Revelation 2 and 3 very carefully. For God is not talking to the unsaved, he is talking to the ‘saved’ and those who ‘believe’ they are saved. And at each verse he reminds them to repent again AND have ‘good works.’
God clearly tells us that our ‘saved names’ can be blotted out of the Book of Life...because we defiled our robes, because we failed to have good works AFTER “believing” in His grace. Repentance is not a one time thing, for no man’s works are perfect.
God tells us as Christians we must overcome the coming trials and tribulations. Being ‘saved’ isn’t going to be enough to get the white robe, sit at the throne, or walk with Jesus in Heaven.
The sacrament of repentance, is not a one time thing, for every Christian can defile his robe...for we are but humble humans.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
>>> HOW would this happen?
According to point 5 of the original post under “what Catholisism teaches”, it would happen in response to the committing of a mortal sin.
And, since God word states that if you are guilty of one sin, you are guilty of them all, I would submit that we would lose salvation daily if it could be lost.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
“I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.”
Some sins lead to spiritual death, or eternal separation from God. Catholics call these sins, mortal. Other sins don’t lead to spiritual death. Catholics call these sins, venial
I do t doubt the Atonement, but the “once saved, always saved” doctrine. Is that your position?
>>> All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.”
This would suggest that God’s standard is something less than perfection.
What was Adam’s sin? How does his disobedience in consuming a fruit qualify it as a sin which leads to death?
Ah... Catholic teaching!
The Bible says that loss of FAITH is what does the deed.
>>> The Bible says that loss of FAITH is what does the deed.
So if you lose your faith you lose salvation?
Might be news to Peter.
Nope.
The Book clearly states that one can, indeed, lose their salvation due to lack of Faith.
The position of some evangelicals is that the person 'wasn't really saved to begin with".
I find that to be a tenuous JUDGMENT call on their part because they CLING to the OSAS mantra.
Now don't try to jump in with a Catholic AHHA! and state one can NOT know whether they are saved or not.
Did GOD really say...
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
"There is a sin, NOT "some sins" or "mutliple sins". Catholicism has to twist scripture to maintin it's beliefs.
Yeah; with his record, a LOT of stuff would be news!
2 Peter 2:20-21
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
To be honest; so does some of Protestantism.
Yep! Of course it appears that Catholics believe that anything that isn't Catholicism is Protestant. But with that being said some of those Protestant organizations are certainly no better than Catholicism.
Your references from Colossians and Hebrews are identical, and speak of “What we believe”... not what we do or fail to do.
Your reference from 2 Peter however is quite different.
“They” needs to be defined, and we find that definition by bringing into context the previous verses starting in verse 9:
2:9 - “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government.”
Verses 10-19 further defines “they”, and as you read through it, it becomes very clear to whom God is referring;
Quite simply, “they” are those who are being preserved for judgment... those who are openly defiant of God and what He stands for. It is their knowledge of the truth that would make it better for them to have not been born to begin with, because their punishment is that much worse than those who simply failed to find the Truth.
I submit that those who are being defined as “they” are quite different than those who lose or lack faith.
Furthermore, the premise that “they had previously escaped the corruption of the world” refers to born again Christians is grammatically false when placed in context with the previous verse;
In verse 19 we see this: “While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. “
“They” are the deceivers promising liberty to those (them) whom they seek to corrupt... and the following verse 20 which you referenced is a paradoxical argument which illustrates that “they” indeed have NOT escaped the pollutions of the world BECAUSE they are themselves servants of corruption.
They are not in heaven, and will not be until the "First Resurrection" in which ALL of the elect will be resurrected.
If your theory does not fit all of the word, it is a false theory; no exceptions.
You keep on cherry-picking misunderstood verses to base unscriptural theories upon.
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