Posted on 11/26/2013 5:46:30 AM PST by cizinec
All systems have their pitfalls, but some are better than others. The best ones will create personal opportunity that results in a larger measure of personal liberty. In turn, that allows each person to freely give more in support of those with true need who are not able to help themselves.
The Pope is an easy target and I think we should all be careful about knee jerk reactions to these statements he is (and in some cases isn’t making). I think he is wrong-minded when it comes to the degree of government intervention into the problem of poverty. In fact, I think the more the government intervenes, the worse the problem will become. He is not wrong-minded when it comes to asking for people step up and do what the can to help those truly in need.
So now the Catholic church is headed by a communist.
Pretty much so, yes.
We have set out a welcome mat to the world -- free bennies! Just come have an anchor baby. Have several, you get more food stamps that way.
And the environment, let's not forget "saving" that. Green power, no matter how much it costs (and lines the pockets of Democrat Party big-time contributors, kick-back CITY) and no matter if the power generation schemes actually work, or not. The taxpayers will pay for it, and the ratepayers will pay for it (everybody gets to pay for it TWICE) while higher energy costs hamper productivity, shrinking the amount of money left to swash around in the economy, providing incentive, helping jobs, those moneys being available to be taxed each time they cross the street.
But it'll all work out -- we don't need to be a producer economy. We're consumers, right? What could go wrong?
And health care for everyone (whether they want it or not, they'll get it like Big Brother says they'll get it, and have to pay for it too, 'cause the Democrats are the 'smart' people with all the good intentions.
Meanwhile, whenever one sees "insurance company", think investment banker (or similar).
But egads --- those sort were supposed to be evil Republicans! but not any more, and not for the last decade or so (at least) for that economic sector provides more campaign contributions to the Democrats than to the Republicans...
Then again, I'm sure you know all this stuff, and could likely preach it better than I can.
>> The most well meaning man in the world cannot redistribute that which is not produced.
Amen. Paul understood this, and wrote about it in his letters to the Christians in Thessaloniki:
“aspire to... mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one. “ — 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (ESV)
“Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness... we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat... For we hear that some among you walk in idleness... Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living. “ —2 Thessalonians 3:6-12 (ESV)
And in Ephesians 4:28, Paul further writes: (ESV)
“Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.”
He seems to be talking to our politicians — yes? :-)
But this is the crux of it: “Unfettered” capitalism (e.g. given over to greed) IS wrong, and the rich SHOULD share with those in need.
HOWEVER: this self-control and sharing ought to be a NATURAL outworking of Christian love and Christ-imitation.
It should NOT be forced at gunpoint by a secular government. And in a true Christian nation, it does not NEED to be forced.
Forced sharing with others when it’s not love-driven to GOD’s glory is for naught, and encourages idleness.
Now he has crossed the rubicon... I no longer have respect for this man.
Encouraging charity is hardly a new concept. And is hardly socialist. A billionaire is not a sinner because he is a billionaire...but might be if he does not help those less fortunate than he...
The healthcare thing and “saving the erf” appeal to the same human motivation - to seek righteousness through their own “works”, or in these cases, through their advocacy.
Psalm 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.
Micah 7:5
Put no trust in a neighbor; have no confidence in a friend; guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your arms;
Jeremiah 17:5
Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord.
Psalm 118:9
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes.
Psalm 118:8-9
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes.
Psalm 118:9-11
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes. All nations surrounded me; in the name of the Lord I cut them off! They surrounded me, surrounded me on every side; in the name of the Lord I cut them off!
When the words ‘Unfettered capitalism’ are used the intent is not about individual conscience. this man is a leftist.
"The Pope DID NOT SAY that GOVERNMENTS should impose this sharing!!!!
tsk, tsk. A mere fact. Nothing worthy of note. /sarc
"205. I ask God to give us more politicians capable of sincere and effective dialogue aimed at healing the deepest roots – and not simply the appearances – of the evils in our world! Politics, though often denigrated, remains a lofty vocation and one of the highest forms of charity, inasmuch as it seeks the common good.[174] We need to be convinced that charity “is the principle not only of micro-relationships (with friends, with family members or within small groups) but also of macro-relationships (social, economic and political ones)”.[175]
IOW, conversion and almsgiving is not enough. The Pope needs politicians seeking "the common good." I've heard that tune before and I know how it ends.
I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor! It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare."
It is vital that government leaders work to ensure all citizens have healthcare????? That's not spin.
Good grief, the link to the Vatican has been posted twice, quotes from the document are all over the thread . . . do you just read what you like?
But when Rome does, it can sound rather dangerous and socialistic:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
ENCYCLICAL LETTER CARITAS IN VERITATE 67. To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago. Such an authority would need to be regulated by law, to observe consistently the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity [ambiguous], to seek to establish the common good, and to make a commitment to securing authentic [another favorite ambiguous word] integral human development inspired by the values of charity in truth.
. Furthermore, such an authority would need to be universally recognized and to be vested with the effective power to ensure security for all, regard for justice, and respect for rights. Obviously it would have to have the authority to ensure compliance with its decisions from all parties , and also with the coordinated measures adopted in various international forums.
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — Pope Benedict XVI and other church leaders said it was the moral responsibility of nations to guarantee access to health care for all of their citizens, regardless of social and economic status or their ability to pay.
Governments are obligated, therefore, to adopt the proper legislative, administrative and financial measures to provide such care along with other basic conditions that promote good health, such as food security, water and housing, the cardinal said. - http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1004736.htm
Both are sufficiently ambiguous to support socialism under the liberal elite, with teeth to enforce it.
His heart may be in the right place, but he’s a career priest, which means he lives off donations by others, and possibly some of the massive wealth of the Church, which, if liquidated, could probably end poverty worldwide.
" Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control." Your own #60
BTW there is no place on Earth where the straw man he's attacking comes even close to existing.
So you are opposed then, to such subversive agendae as promoting the general welfare.
Got it.
If economic and political relationships should not be based on charity, then I presume they should be based on enmity instead?
It is vital that government leaders work to ensure all citizens have healthcare????? That's not spin.
Should elected officials work against citizens being employed, educated and healthy?
Employment, education and health should be things that everyone - including politicians - are interested in promoting.
While I agree our economic system is a shambles, a pope is the last person in the world I’d take advice from...
You wanted to reply to Mr Rogers, not MrB.
or... maybe you intended me after all..
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