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Pope Francis calls unfettered capitalism 'tyranny' and urges rich to share wealth
The Guardian ^ | 26 November 2013 | Reuters

Posted on 11/26/2013 5:46:30 AM PST by cizinec

In it, economic inequality features as one of the issues Francis is most concerned about. The 76-year-old pontiff calls for an overhaul of the financial system and warns that unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence.

"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote.

Denying this was simple populism, he called for action "beyond a simple welfare mentality" and added: "I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor."

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics
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Resolve the problems of the poor radically . . . by going back to 15th Century European political systems, it seems. Only the Doge can help.
1 posted on 11/26/2013 5:46:30 AM PST by cizinec
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To: cizinec

I knew he was a nut from the get go.


2 posted on 11/26/2013 5:47:55 AM PST by seeker41 (take your country back by whatever means necessary & remove the son of a kenyan mooslimb)
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To: cizinec

Socialism/communism has always worked..... NOT!


3 posted on 11/26/2013 5:48:39 AM PST by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: cizinec
The 76-year-old pontiff calls for an overhaul of the financial system and warns that unequal distribution of wealth inevitably leads to violence.

Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot - The Pope hasn't been paying attention, apparently.

4 posted on 11/26/2013 5:49:57 AM PST by skeeter
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To: cizinec

Okay, once again - is this correct or is someone trying to manipulate the public?

‘Cause if Capitalism is so bad, why do they have to use FORCE to try make the other ones work?


5 posted on 11/26/2013 5:50:11 AM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: cizinec

Socialist/Communist regimes murdered (at minimum) 150,000,000 of their own citizens in the past hundred years, but let’s give it another try!


6 posted on 11/26/2013 5:50:19 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: cizinec
We're sharing wealth now. Guess he hasn't heard about Obamacare.
7 posted on 11/26/2013 5:50:32 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: cizinec

The Pope is an Argentinian. Sadly he has very little understanding how real wealth is created. Unless wealth is created, there is no social justice. The most well meaning man in the world cannot redistribute that which is not produced. No capitalism means no social justice.


8 posted on 11/26/2013 5:51:07 AM PST by allendale
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To: cizinec
When Rome sells all their gold stuff and gives it to the poor...call me.

However, the church does do good things and the world is grateful.

Yesterday, I made pea soup. I threw away the rind from the ham and could feel the pain of some little kid who would love to chew that rind.

9 posted on 11/26/2013 5:51:19 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: cizinec

He can start distributing wealth with his own church. It sits on unimaginable wealth.


10 posted on 11/26/2013 5:51:43 AM PST by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: cizinec

There is nothing tyrannical about wealth. Now, how one uses that wealth is easily to question. Dave Ramsey had a speech on this quoting from the bible that God want’s us to have wealth, enough that we can “share” but not in such a way that we put our selves or loved ones at a disadvantage.


11 posted on 11/26/2013 5:51:54 AM PST by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: cizinec

Supposedly, when we have prosperity, we don’t care about the “plight of the poor”.

So, I guess if we’re all poor, then we’ll “care”, which is much better than actually having the ability to do anything about it.

Second point - I get pretty sick and tired of the extortion by the left to the tune of “we have to redistribute the wealth [by force] or else the poor will get violent”.

No, Mr Pope and any leftists out there - if the poor get violent over not having the gov’t give them the fruits of others’ labor, those who are being “violented upon” should defend themselves. This provides an incentive to the best way to NOT be poor - work.


12 posted on 11/26/2013 5:52:49 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Little Ray

I’m guessing manipulation.


13 posted on 11/26/2013 5:53:01 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cizinec

In before ‘the Pope didn’t say this, one of his lackeys did.’


14 posted on 11/26/2013 5:53:11 AM PST by deadrock (I am someone else.)
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To: cizinec

The other day he said something to the effect that progressivism is evil.

Which is it Mr. Pope?


15 posted on 11/26/2013 5:53:46 AM PST by dforest
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To: cizinec
"I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed ...
What, the ones we already have aren't "disturbed" enough?
16 posted on 11/26/2013 5:53:48 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: allendale

Put Kenyans down as having no idea how wealth is created.

Unless Obama is not representative of the race as a whole.


17 posted on 11/26/2013 5:53:50 AM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: cizinec

I agree with the Pope so long as this is a call to individual conscience and not political action.


18 posted on 11/26/2013 5:54:01 AM PST by circlecity
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To: cizinec

Not much of an economist, this Pope. Oh well.


19 posted on 11/26/2013 5:54:31 AM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: cizinec

The Pope obviously doesn’t understand that capitalism in its unfettered state has not existed for over a century. Equating modern state controlled capitalism with real capitalism is like comparing a wild lion with a circus lion.

The obvious intent is to further vilify any form of capitalism in favor of a state owned and state run economy. There’s a word for that system. Wait. It will come to me!


20 posted on 11/26/2013 5:55:30 AM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: dforest

Capitalism is neither good nor evil, people are good or evil...Capitalism is nothing but a tool.

Socialism is ALWAYS evil.


21 posted on 11/26/2013 5:55:54 AM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp.)
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To: cizinec

well, then the church should be the first to divest itself of all it gold/jewels/art/land and investments.


22 posted on 11/26/2013 5:56:16 AM PST by stylin19a (Obama -> Fredo smart)
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To: cizinec

Manchester Guardian distorting Francis’ words again? Wouldn’t be the first time. Every time one finds Francis’ actual words, it turns out that the left-wing media parsed them and he said something completely different when put back into context—especially when it came to gays and atheists (in context of their repentance).


23 posted on 11/26/2013 5:56:32 AM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Fantasywriter

I should have said ‘country’, not ‘race’.


24 posted on 11/26/2013 5:57:00 AM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: cizinec

Let’s start with the Vatican they can share all their money and gold with us.


25 posted on 11/26/2013 5:57:03 AM PST by angcat
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To: cizinec
Shockingly, not one intelligent comment on the thread up to post 11.

Several observations:

(1) He is condemning the welfare mentality. That is hardly the mark of a socialist, let alone a communist.

(2) The Church is not "sitting on unimaginable wealth" - the Vatican's operating budget is smaller than that of the Church of England, which has about 5% of the Catholic Church's membership.

The Church actually operates in the red.

(3) When there is trafficking in prostitution, sterilization, etc. it reminds us that markets exist to serve man, they are not ends in themselves.

26 posted on 11/26/2013 5:57:29 AM PST by wideawake
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To: angcat
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
27 posted on 11/26/2013 5:58:04 AM PST by wideawake
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To: Olog-hai; cizinec

It doesn’t matter. The leftists on FR who hate the core of Western Civilization - i.e. the Church - will unthinkingly parrot anything the liberal media says, as long as it makes the source of all conservatism look bad.


28 posted on 11/26/2013 5:59:34 AM PST by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Your point 2 has to do with cash flow.

What the other posters are referring to is the actual gold and silver that the Church has accumulated through the centuries.


29 posted on 11/26/2013 5:59:57 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Sacajaweau

“When Rome sells all their gold stuff and gives it to the poor...call me.”

Exactly.


30 posted on 11/26/2013 6:00:01 AM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: cizinec

Gee, I’m a capitalist in capitalist country with a booming economy. I see a new opportunity to make, say, custom fitted doggie coats for northern climes. I put my own money at risk, employ a bunch of people, and pay other vendors to get the company off the ground. My investment creates jobs.

Gee, I’m rich in a socialist country with a stagnant, government run economy. I bribe politicians to get a government contract. To the degree possible, I outsource work to foreign countries as it’s far cheaper than hiring domestic, union labor.

Which is better for everyone concerned?


31 posted on 11/26/2013 6:02:58 AM PST by vekzen
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To: seeker41

The Pope DID NOT SAY that GOVERNMENTS should impose this sharing!!!!


32 posted on 11/26/2013 6:03:12 AM PST by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: cizinec; SunkenCiv

Keep in mind that for this story, the messenger is the Guardian. Whatever the pope said on capitalism is going to be exaggerated by that left-wing publication.


33 posted on 11/26/2013 6:04:04 AM PST by Berosus (I wish I had as much faith in God as liberals have in government.)
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To: wideawake

1. He condemns capitalism in general. The only thing that has brought us real end to poverty is competition and free markets - UNFETTERED competition and free markets, not the regulated crap in Europe.

2. The Pope offers NO solutions to any of the problems. He surely points out what he sees to be the problem: free markets. What do you have instead of free markets? Please explain Rome’s “Third Way,” which is nothing but the socialism that has already failed Europe.

3. He condemns “welfare mentality” but goes on to parrot ridiculous memes on “wealth redistribution.” Wealth redistribution is THE ULTIMATE in the welfare mentality. How can he say, “well, I don’t like the welfare mentality, but welfare for all!” and be seen as internally consistent.


34 posted on 11/26/2013 6:06:06 AM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: cizinec

Pretty hard to reconcile

“wealth should be redistributed”

with

“thou shall not steal” and “thou shall not covet”


35 posted on 11/26/2013 6:08:09 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: cizinec

So lets see Francis the pope who thinks it’s ok for
homosexuals to be in the priesthood as long as they are
forgiven now says that capitalism is bad and favors
communism. Next we’ll find out he supports NAMBLA.

The anti-Christ is here waiting for society to fall. His
minions have infiltrated everything that is good and
decent and is corrupting from within.

“The pope said renewal of the church could not be put off and the Vatican and its entrenched hierarchy “also need to hear the call to pastoral conversion”.

What he means is conversion to homosexuality. This guy is
Obama 2 and his enemy is not just America but God too.


36 posted on 11/26/2013 6:08:38 AM PST by Slambat
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To: G Larry
“The Pope DID NOT SAY that GOVERNMENTS should impose this sharing!!!!”

It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare.

Each meaningful economic decision made in one part of the world has repercussions everywhere else; consequently, no government can act without regard for shared responsibility.

Read it at http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html. Especially in context, the Pope's words beg to differ.

37 posted on 11/26/2013 6:12:15 AM PST by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: MrB
What the other posters are referring to is the actual gold and silver that the Church has accumulated through the centuries.

Are these gold and silver bullion, held in a warehouse? Hardly.

First, the Bishop of Rome does not own the property of his own diocese, let alone the property of any other.

Second, the individual dioceses don't really own the property of their own individual parishes.

Example: in my local parish, there is a monstrance that was given to the church more than a hundred years ago as a gift by parishioners to beautify the altar. The grandchildren of those parishioners still attend the church today,

That monstrance probably contains $150,000 worth of gold by weight alone, and is probably worth far more than its weight since it was beautifully made by skilled goldsmiths long ago.

It is also a blessed object.

Should it be melted down?

Who has the authority to order it to be melted down?

Or should this object which was prayerfully created and prayerfully donated by people who hoped that their children and their children's children would use it in worship be sold to an art broker and displayed in the home of a wealthy collector?

Who would have the authority to do that?

What do you suggest?

38 posted on 11/26/2013 6:13:02 AM PST by wideawake
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To: cizinec

Is Francis advocating locking the poor in poverty forever?

These religious guys would be well advised to stay out of economics and politics, it just makes them look foolish and less credible.


39 posted on 11/26/2013 6:14:09 AM PST by SharpRightTurn
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To: cizinec

So, Caesar’s a moron. What else is new?


40 posted on 11/26/2013 6:14:58 AM PST by arderkrag (An Unreconstructed Georgian, STANDING WITH RAND.)
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To: wideawake

I would suggest that the disposition of the property of the church be determined by the authorities of the church,

and that the spokesman/head of the church respect others’ property in the same way.


41 posted on 11/26/2013 6:15:22 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

“No, Mr Pope and any leftists out there - if the poor get violent over not having the gov’t give them the fruits of others’ labor, those who are being “violented upon” should defend themselves.”

I’ll bet the Obama type chump calling himself a pope is
anti-gun also and most definitely against anyone protecting
themselves and their children. Especially from pedophile
homosexual priest.


42 posted on 11/26/2013 6:15:52 AM PST by Slambat
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To: cizinec
He condemns capitalism in general.

Wrong.

The Pope offers NO solutions to any of the problems.

Wrong again.

The solution is, as always, conversion and almsgiving. The Gospel solution.

He condemns “welfare mentality” but goes on to parrot ridiculous memes on “wealth redistribution.”

So generous people voluntarily helping the poor are the same as people who think they are entitled to other people's money?

43 posted on 11/26/2013 6:16:03 AM PST by wideawake
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To: cizinec
"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote.

Ping for later

44 posted on 11/26/2013 6:16:41 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: wideawake
The Church actually operates in the red.

"Vatican budget shows surplus for 2012, reversing record deficit of 2011"

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18356

The Church is not "sitting on unimaginable wealth" - the Vatican's operating budget is smaller than that of the Church of England, which has about 5% of the Catholic Church's membership.

You're comparing apples and oranges. While it's true that the Vatican's budget is relatively small at $326 million, wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare the Church of England's budget to that of the entire Catholic Church? Which, by the way, is estimated to be $170 billion, approximately 500 times more than the budget of the Vatican.

http://www.economist.com/node/21560536

45 posted on 11/26/2013 6:17:37 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: cizinec

Oh good another news story by liberal media on what the pope said. Its simply amazing how credible the media gets as soon as they have anything to say about what’s being said by the new pope.


46 posted on 11/26/2013 6:17:55 AM PST by Bayard
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To: Slambat

Now, now... I’m not going that far.

But I will say that along with this “threat” you hear from the left is the inherent condoning of the violence - to which I answer that such violence will be met with appropriate, entirely justified, defensive force.


47 posted on 11/26/2013 6:18:13 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: cizinec

Coming from the Vatican? He can start by giving away the wealth of the Vatican...and we know that won’t happen.


48 posted on 11/26/2013 6:19:23 AM PST by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: seeker41; All

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Yeah, that Jesus. What a nut.


49 posted on 11/26/2013 6:20:49 AM PST by bigdaddy45
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To: wideawake

Actually, he is “beseeching politicians to guarantee all citizens “dignified work, education and healthcare”, and wrote, “As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems,”.

He didn’t condemn the welfare mentality, but expects governments to go beyond it.

Anyone who expects governments to ‘solve’ poverty is asking governments to control wealth. That destroys personal freedom. You cannot make the lazy and foolish wealthy. You can only cut down the smart and hard-workers until all are equally poor.


50 posted on 11/26/2013 6:20:52 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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