Posted on 07/26/2013 2:57:13 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
Question:
What would a baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic need to do in order to join the Orthodox Presbyterian Church?
Answer:
Allow me to answer you question with a brief autobiographical anecdote. I was born, baptized, raised, confirmed, and educated in the Roman Catholic system. In fact, it was while I was at a Roman Catholic college (of all places) that I was converted by the grace of God. After realizing how different the teachings of the RCC are from Scripture, I joined with a Baptist church. And that church required that I be rebaptized as an adult. So, I went through that process and became a member. Several years later I came to understand the doctrine of the Bible as it was taught in Reformed churches like the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). Joining them was quite easy. I went before the session (a group of men who are officers in the church) where they interviewed me to make sure I had a credible profession of faith in Jesus Christ. The following Sunday they put me before the congregation where I publicly professed my faith in Jesus Christ in the form of several membership vows. And that was it. I was a member!
So, being baptized and confirmed in the RCC is no big obstacle if you want to become a member of the OPC. As long as you have come to trust in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation, and you trust not in any of your works. When asked the question "What must I do to be saved?", the response of Paul and Silas was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts 16:31), and that is still true today. What is important is to put your full trust in Jesus. If you have done that, if you have repented of your sin and trust in Jesus alone, you are welcomed into the fellowship of the OPC. There is no need to be re-baptized and there is no need to renounce your confirmation.
At this point I would strongly encourage you to seek out the pastor of a local OPC, and he can guide you through the details of the steps toward membership in the OPC. If you need assistance finding an OPC in your area, you can check out our Directory of Churches. May God bless you and may you "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 5:18). If we can be of further assistance, just let us know!
you wrote:
“I can see whence you come, but, let’s at least be even-handed here, shall we?”
I don’t believe Protestant anti-Catholics are capable of being even-handed.
“I suspect you have no idea just how many “Protestant sects” there are in this country in the first place. (There are MANY — and many non-denominational congregations, as well.)”
There are several hundred thousand such groups in the U.S. I am taking into account the basement and garage sects.
“For you to say, without research,”
I did the research years ago.
“to go out on a shaky limb.”
Everything I said was true.
“MANY Protestants — even some of those in the more liberal denominations — abhor abortion.”
Irrelevant. When discussing the Church or sects what matters is what is taught rather than what members choose to believe in obedience or disobedience to the Church or sects.
“Yea, I myself would go out on a limb and say that I believe that the vast majority of Protestant believers in this country who are more than obligatory occasional pew-sitters viscerally oppose abortion — including in cases of rape or incest (as do I).”
Even when Protestants oppose abortion they do not oppose the culture of birth control that leads to it.
Let me say this though. Right now this country, Conservatives, Christians of all stripes, and anyone that is pro-life is in the fight of our lives.
The stakes are immense. We have about 6-8 weeks to convince our Representatives and Senators that any Continuing resolution that supports or funds Obamacare be defeated. Once the money starts flowing in September we have lost.
Right now HHS is intent on forcing the Catholic Health care system to pay for health insurance which pays for abortions. I pray that the USCCB will tell them to pound salt but am not counting on that.
Some of you would be very happy to see the Catholic Church defeated on this matter, that is certainly your right.
But you need to keep one thing in mind the reasons that this administration is specifically targeting the Catholic Church is that we are the largest single denomination and we have a central authority. If we lose and are forced to do this or close Catholic hospitals it will not be long before each of your churches is forced to do things against your core beliefs. It will not belong before every denomination is backed into a corner and will have no recourse.
What a hoot!!!
On one hand, we're castigated sola Scriptura, for relying on Scripture as the final authority, and now on the other hand, we're told we're rejecting the Bible.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Another one of those lose/lose situations for non-Catholics depending on which Catholics you're talking to at the moment.
It'd be nice if there was some constancy amongst Catholics.
I don't know of anybody that would be glad to see that happen. I know I don't want to see it happen. I certainly hope you are wrong. I hope the Catholic Church prevails on this matter. Peace be to you.
vlad: Irrelevant.
It IS relevant. Because it's the laity who are doing the voting, not the denominations.
But thanks for driving the wedge deeper.
Just for the record, the only person I know who went to jail during the Operation Rescue days was a Baptist pastor, and he went for contempt of court because he wouldn't agree to the judge's orders to stay away from the abortion clinic.
First, you are correct. It was humor.
However, You haven’t been here on FR long enough to have participated in the Calvin/Arminian war. Many will attest to numerous instances in which it was stated that even this line I’m typing now was written ahead of time. That ALL is under Divine appointment.
So...not all that removed from the beliefs of some is the humor I served.
Predestination teaches that from eternity God has had one unified plan or purpose which He is bringing to perfection through this world order of events. It holds that all of His decrees are rational determinations founded on sufficient reason, and that He has fixed one great goal "toward which the whole creation moves." Predestination holds that the ends designed in this plan are first, the glory of God; and second, the good of His people. On the other hand Fatalism excludes the idea of final causes. It snatches the reins of universal empire from the hands of infinite wisdom and love, and gives them into the hands of a blind necessity. It attributes the course of nature and the experiences of man-kind to an unknown, irresistible force, against which it is vain to struggle and childish to repine.
According to the doctrine of Predestination the freedom and responsibility of man are fully preserved. In the midst of certainty God has ordained human liberty. But Fatalism allows no power of choice, no self-determination. It makes the acts of man to be as utterly beyond his control as are the laws of nature. personal, abstract power, has no room for moral ideas, while Predestination makes these the rule of action for God and man. Fatalism has no place for and offers no incentives to religion, love, mercy, holiness, justice, or wisdom, while Predestination gives these the strongest conceivable basis. And lastly, Fatalism leads to skepticism and despair, while Predestination sets forth the glories of God and of His kingdom in all their splendor and gives an assurance which nothing can shake.
Predestination therefore differs from Fatalism as much as the acts of a man differ from those of a machine, or as much as the unfailing love of the heavenly Father differs from the force of gravitation. "It reveals to us," says Smith, "the glorious truth that our lives and our sensitive hearts are held, not in the iron cog-wheels of a vast and pitiless Fate, nor in the whirling loom of a crazy Chance, but in the almighty hands of an infinitely good and wise God."1
Calvin emphatically repudiated the charge that his doctrine was Fatalism. "Fate," says he, "is a term given by the Stoics to their doctrine of necessity, which they had formed out of a labyrinth of contradictory reasonings; a doctrine calculated to call God Himself to order, and to set Him laws whereby to work. Predestination I define to be, according to the Holy Scriptures, that free and unfettered counsel of God by which He rules all mankind, and all men and things, and also all parts and particles of the world by His infinite wisdom and incomprehensible justice." And again, ".., had you but been willing to look into my books, you would have been convinced at once how offensive to me is the profane term fate: nay, you would have learned that this same abhorrent term was cast in the teeth of Augustine by his opponents."2
Luther says that the doctrine of Fatalism among the heathen is a proof that "the knowledge of Predestination and of the prescience of God, was no less left in the world than the notion of divinity itself." 3 In the history of philosophy Materialism has proven itself essentially fatalistic. Pan theism also has been strongly tinged with it.
No man can be a consistent fatalist. For to be consistent he would have to reason something like this: "If I am to die today, it will do me no good to eat, for I shall die anyway. Nor do I need to eat if I am to live many years yet, for I shall live anyway. Therefore I will not eat." Needless to say, if God has foreordained that a man shall live, He has also foreordained that he shall be kept from the suicidal folly of refusing to eat.
"This doctrine," says Hamilton, "is only superficially like the pagan 'fate.' The Christian is in the hands not of a cold, immutable determinism, but of a warm, loving heavenly Father, who loved us and gave His Son to die for us on Calvary! The Christian knows that 'all things work together for good to them that love God, even to them that are called according to His purpose.' The Christian can trust God because he knows He is all-wise, loving, just and holy. He sees the end from the beginning, so that there is no reason to become panicky when things seem to be going against us."
Hence, only a person who has not examined this doctrine of Predestination, or one who is maliciously inclined, will rashly charge that it is Fatalism. There is no excuse for anyone making this mistake who knows what Predestination is and what Fatalism is.
Since the universe is one systematized unit we must choose between Fatalism, which ultimately does away with mind and purpose, and this biblical doctrine of Predestination, which holds that God created all things, that His providence extends to all His works, and that while free Himself He has also provided that we shall be free within the limits of our natures. Instead of our doctrine of Predestination being the same with the heathen doctrine of Fatalism, it is its absolute opposite and only alternative.
Predestination recognizes that God knew Adam's nature and purposely put the tree in the garden knowing full well that Adam would take the fruit. We learned something that day about ourselves that only God knew. Fatalism says God put the tree there and walked away and Adam just couldn't help himself.
You may ask why God would do such a horrible thing? Man would never know the depths of joy without experiencing suffering. And before we complain to God, our God suffered more than any of us ever will.
Your article is what happens when you take your theology from a philosophy major.
“It IS relevant.”
Nope.
“But thanks for driving the wedge deeper.”
Protestants invented the wedge. What happens after that invention is their choosing.
“Just for the record, the only person I know who went to jail during the Operation Rescue days was a Baptist pastor, and he went for contempt of court because he wouldn’t agree to the judge’s orders to stay away from the abortion clinic.”
Many or most Baptists believe in abortion in the cases of rape and incest and think little about using birth control. They are not, therefore, pro-life.
Our Lord is still in control and has dominion over all.
LOL!!! Haven't argued with the Catholics much on this board heh??? ;O)
I guess we can take that as an admission that you know you do not have the Spirit of God within you...
Everyone of those is past tense...They have happened and are to happen no more...No a single one of those applies to your false religion...
Or according to the only interpretation of Scripture that has any authority, that being that which is from God, as she as infallibly decreed she is infallible when universally declaring such things as that she is the one true and infallible church.
However, Scripture is established as being wholly from God due to its Divine attestation and unique and enduring Heavenly qualities, in contrast to man, and to Rome, which has often manifested qualities of Hell.
So...not all that removed from the beliefs of some is the humor I served.
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I am good with humor, Brother. . . .
Staunch Calvinist that I am! ;-)
As a Catholic and as a recovering attorney, I would add that I represented hundreds of Reformed Christians (as well as hundreds of Catholics) in what was called “Operation Rescue” but actually had another name. The Reformed Christians were every bit as committed pro-lifers as were the Catholics.
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Thank you for your post. Very convincing, . . . and moving.
Just for the record, the only person I know who went to jail during the Operation Rescue days was a Baptist pastor, and he went for contempt of court because he wouldn’t agree to the judge’s orders to stay away from the abortion clinic.
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Very telling example.
There are several hundred thousand such groups in the U.S. I am taking into account the basement and garage sects.
“For you to say, without research,”
I did the research years ago.
“to go out on a shaky limb.”
Everything I said was true.
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Somehow, I do not follow. If I give you the “hundreds of thousands” figure, for the sake of argument (and you may well be correct), then how do you so confidently say that a *majority* of these entities ‘officially’ support abortion? I rather believe that most of them are staunchly anti-abortion — especially in the case of the innumerable the garage and store-front operations.
Also, please do not “add on” the Birth Control red herring. We were talking abortion. Let’s keep it to abortion, even though Birth Control is certainly a topic worthy of discussion. Remember: Most Protestants view sex outside of marriage as a sin, so the Birth Control issue — for them — is a matter between a man and his wife. Moreover, it does not follow that a married Protestant couple that uses birth control then by default resorts to abortion when pregnancy happens. Quite the contrary in the vast majority of cases, I would confidently aver. Still and all, I would prefer that fornicators and adulterers resort to condoms or the pill in the firm belief that this will result in less abortions down the road.
Finally, as to this gem of bigotry, “I don’t believe Protestant anti-Catholics are capable of being even-handed,” I will not even deign to grace it with a reply. ;-)
” If I give you the “hundreds of thousands” figure, for the sake of argument (and you may well be correct), then how do you so confidently say that a *majority* of these entities ‘officially’ support abortion?”
Because by their teaching they do.
“Also, please do not “add on” the Birth Control red herring. We were talking abortion.”
They go together. I will continue to speak about both since they cannot logically be separated in terms of mentality, morality, history, law, science, religion of common sense.
“I will not even deign to grace it with a reply.”
What I said was true so it doesn’t matter if you reply or not.
You are being rude and crude. There's no need for acrimony in your postings. If you have such disdain for Protestants, why even bother to talk to us? man_in_tx was being a gentleman about your rudeness but your reply reveals your true character.
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