Skip to comments.Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt
Posted on 07/21/2013 11:21:16 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
In the small but cohesive Mormon community where he grew up, Hans Mattsson was a solid believer and a pillar of the church. He followed his father and grandfather into church leadership and finally became an area authority overseeing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout Europe
When fellow believers in Sweden first began coming to him with information from the Internet that contradicted the churchs history and teachings, he dismissed it as anti-Mormon propaganda, the whisperings of Lucifer. He asked his superiors for help in responding to the members doubts, and when they seemed to only sidestep the questions, Mr. Mattsson began his own investigation.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
LDS does not hold up under scrutiny.
The Book of Mormon is pure unadulterated POPPYCOCK!
It's a very funny play, though
There’s nothing you can’t find on the web.
these are frigtening times, with threats of dictatorship,the worship of evil, and the decimation of our families and our churchs...
there's less and less of "us" and more and more of them...the haters, the evil doers, the ones that embrace all sorts of idolatry and sin, and perversion...
and yet, we still love to bash in a whole community of people who have decent morals and believe in marriage, children, work ethic....
we need to band together, not slash at good people....we don't bash people who don't believe in ANY God, and certainly we don't bash Jewish people...why Mormons?....and Catholics get nearly the same treatmen...
It could be due to opposition to top down, controlling cults.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
My thoughts exactly. And why did they choose the NY Times to publish about it?
If I were a Mormon I would be worried about my salvation. Smith was obviously a false in many of his statements and a leader of men into sexual immorality.
Why mormons?....could it be that the mormon church sends 75,000 (soon to be over 100,000) missionaries out into the world to bash the faith of Christians every day, 24/7 and claim mormonism is the "one true church" and the only way to salvation is through arcane rituals in mormon temples???
The dozens of FReepers who post the truth of mormonism here can multitask. We can consider "threats of dictatorship,the worship of evil, and the decimation of our families and our churchs.." as you state and fight against the "decimation of our Christian churches" by these thousands and thousands of mormon missionaries while considering the other threats.
I suggest that you might try reading the information that you find on these threads before jumping in to accuse other FReepers of "bashing".
This article would be a good start in your studies.
May ALL mormons find enough doubt to bring them to the truth of Christ and His salvation!
Just like the Koran, made up by mad-men claiming that angels spoke to them and told them what they wanted to hear.
The truth shall set you free.....or earn you a trip to Ft. Marcy Park.
I spoke with an inlaw not long ago and he was telling me about all these ancient battles that took place in New York. I didn’t want to get into with him and ask him how many bronze weapons had been found.
I always go back to my true belief about mormanism. I believe the church hides many cases of child molestation.
I voted for mccain because of Palin. Ryan was not a good excuse to vote for Romeny. God forgive me.
Mormons you are Trayvon...
My brother's laughing response: "Why would anyone pay attention to someone who couldn't refute Mormonism with an hour of research?" I think my brother has an excellent point. There is something really off about someone who claims to know so much about the founding of our nation and who claims insight into current events but cannot see the obvious problems with Mormonism.
Like comedian Emo Philips said to his mormon in-laws, it must be tough to belong to a religion that’s so easy to disprove.
I found my Nom De Jeur “Vendome” on some “Haters of LDS” site yesterday.
I don’t hate Mormons any more than they hate Christians.
We are Doctrinaly and theologically at odds, with far too many Christians giving LDS a pass and thinking Mormons are Christians too.
Mormons, on the other hand, have no misconceptions about what they are and what Christians are, which are divorced from each other.
Catholics and Baptists are part of the larger Body of Christ.
LDS is it’s own island, or inter-space stopover or planet....
I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the otherThis is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is wellI am well enough off. I then said to my mother,
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (fromPearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
Everybody hates Mormons. Mormons are used to it and used to people leaving the church.
Nobody likes anybody that says they are wrong. Although the Mormons don’t go around telling people they are wrong their very faith implies that ALL other churches are wrong.
The reality is that most churches do this to some extent. Jews certainly think Christians are wrong, Christians think Jews are wrong. Catholics think all protestants are wrong but are willing to try to work out some kind of reconciliation for some of the the sects.
Catholics lose members to Baptist, Lutherans, and many other religions all the time. The same is true of the Catholics gaining membership from all other churches.
It is a shame when someone loses their faith or has it shaken, but it has always happened.
An area Seventy is not like a cardinal it is closer to a Bishop.
When the Salamander letter came out there were several Mormons who said they had had their faith shaken and would leave the church. That letter was a forgery and proven so. Those that left felt pretty silly.
Mormons aren’t Mormons because of historical documents. Some might be shaken by documents but the Mormons I have met said that The Holy Ghost witnessed to them that the church was true and nothing else mattered. For those people I don’t think it matters what anyone says. They have had a special witness and they will scoff at any detractors.
I hope this fellow gets on with life and becomes happy with whatever he decides to do but I don’t think beng a public spectacle will help him in his quest.
I had a study with two "elders" and began sharing with them the controversies surrounding their "holy" books and leader. One of the boys became genuinely interested and was asking questions. The other one didn't like it.
We scheduled a subsequent meeting. When I showed up for that, the boy who was asking questions was not there. It was someone else in his place. They said the boy who asked the questions was transferred to another city.
That's how they deal with controversy, viz. ship somebody to a reeducation center.
Not Mormon here, but can’t help but wonder: what’s NYT’s interest in this subject?
we need to band together, not slash at good people....we don't bash people who don't believe in ANY God, and certainly we don't bash Jewish people...why Mormons?....and Catholics get nearly the same treatmen...
Who is mocking or ridiculing Mormons?
I hear a lot about Mormon *bashing* but have yet to see mockery or derision against individual Mormons.
that hit the nail on the head.
It took me decades to realize that all religions are based on myths and designed to do 2 things, control the masses and take your money.
“we need to band together, not slash at good people....we don’t bash people who don’t believe in ANY God, and certainly we don’t bash Jewish people...why Mormons?....and Catholics get nearly the same treatmen...”
Mormonism is a religious cult that damns its believers. It is not “good,” nor are any of its people actually “good,” as there is no righteousness outside of faith in Christ. The Jews who reject Jesus Christ as the Saviour are also in danger of eternal hell fire.
If defending the country requires legitimizing and ignoring the horrors of any false religion, apologizing and defending their religions which blaspheme the one true God, then defending the country isn’t worth it.
... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods. - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375
You were saying Cherry . . . . . . . .
Blessed are those that found 'doubt' before Al Gore invented the Web!
They need only to search their own chosen religious organization's publications and they'll find DOUBT aplenty!
Trying finding out MormonISM is true!
You REALLY don't know?
They are arrogant in their smugness; declaring themselves to be the only TRUE 'christians' and insulting every Christian who ever lived.
Is that enough?
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. Im Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you dont!
2. Im Superior; I have Gods true priesthood power -- you dont!
3. Im Superior; I can go in Gods secret Temple -- you cant!
4. Im Superior; Ive been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- youre just normal!
5. Im Superior; Ill have my family with me in heaven -- youll be with strangers!
6. Im Superior; Im becoming a God -- you arent!
7. Im Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours dont.
8. Im Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
9. Im Superior; I dont HAVE a creed - Ive got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. Im Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. -- You cant.
12. Im Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics --
-- Youre a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. Im Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. Im Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you dont.
18. Im Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you dont ;so you cant.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. Im Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- Youre on your own; when you get to wherever youre going!
21. Im Superior; Im going to hie to Kolob -- youre going to who knows where.
22. Im Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you dont.
23. Im Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
-- You have nothing but a stupid cross.
24. Im Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
We'll find some...
The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battlesMormon hides the sacred records in the hill CumorahThe Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyedHundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.
1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.
2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.
3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.
4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.
5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.
6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.
7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.
8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.
9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:
17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!
18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.
19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!
20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.
21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.
22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.
I find the above statement hard to believe; in light of this YouTube video of Glenn speaking...
The money quotes are around 2:22 and 3:55
It ain't 'thinking', but accepting what they've been told.
Any two small brain cells rubbing together would create enough interest to actually find OUT what MormonISM teaches.
But; even armed with THOSE facts; a 'christian' would STILL be at a loss if they do not know what CHRISTIANITY teachs!
Ya beat me to it!
Even those who MARRY one and they, themselves, ain't MORMON?
If you have cable TV, there wont be much on to watch.
If there isnt much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.
If you open your door, you will see mormons.
If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into praying about whether something is true.
If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.
If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!
If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.
DONT be a cultist!
Well; SOMETHING sure did; but I can guarantee you that they did NOT do the TEST that JS said to use!!
13, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 49, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.
1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones;
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear;
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
No WONDER it took 'decades'; for that is an AWFUL lot of religions to research!!
I do hear often, and understand, there is a large scale movement worldwide of ‘the crowd’ clamoring, “Let's all just get along”, it flies under the banner of the New Age Spirituality and comes in many shapes and sizes...basically one size fits all. There is no such thing...but people today are ripe for deception.
Mormonism is not a Religion, as it calls itself, it's a successful organization, much like Scientology and others like it who mask as one...and this to make merchandise of it's members....let alone keeping them in bondage to a false sense of security by being members of that organization.
It's deceptive, and it's tactics are clearly brainwashing and fully meet the requirements of a counterfeit Christianity....using just enough of “borrowed” terminology to make it “appear” Christian...when it is a huge deceptive program to put people in bondage....by doing so keeps them from the true Biblical Christ of Salvation.
Those are the money shots for sure - a daughter’s burning in the bosom and a coincidental phone call are irrefutable proof. I might have to check out this Mormonism thing. ;-)
ALL: You know, Obama & his thugs overreach, thinking they can almost become "gods" of our lives...
Temple Mormons overreach, thinking they can become "gods" of their own worlds that they populate.
(Sounds to me like you have the "us" and "them" quite confused, especially considering that Romney was more liberal than JFK...and was "Obama lite" with his pro-abortion stances, his RomneyCare, etc.)
* Here's what Greetings_puny_humans posted in Nov 2010:
Special Fireside for Disaffected Swedish LDS Saints
* Here's what I posted in an article in August 2012 (scroll down to link: The Swedish Rescue):
'Spiritual Olympics' Series (S.O.S.): A Glimpse of Mormonism Around the Globe [Vanity]
This shows the "major crisis" Swedish Mormons underwent, as described by this Swedish Mormon in this NY Times piece.