LDS does not hold up under scrutiny.
The Book of Mormon is pure unadulterated POPPYCOCK!
There’s nothing you can’t find on the web.
these are frigtening times, with threats of dictatorship,the worship of evil, and the decimation of our families and our churchs...
there's less and less of "us" and more and more of them...the haters, the evil doers, the ones that embrace all sorts of idolatry and sin, and perversion...
and yet, we still love to bash in a whole community of people who have decent morals and believe in marriage, children, work ethic....
we need to band together, not slash at good people....we don't bash people who don't believe in ANY God, and certainly we don't bash Jewish people...why Mormons?....and Catholics get nearly the same treatmen...
If I were a Mormon I would be worried about my salvation. Smith was obviously a false in many of his statements and a leader of men into sexual immorality.
May ALL mormons find enough doubt to bring them to the truth of Christ and His salvation!
The truth shall set you free.....or earn you a trip to Ft. Marcy Park.
My brother's laughing response: "Why would anyone pay attention to someone who couldn't refute Mormonism with an hour of research?" I think my brother has an excellent point. There is something really off about someone who claims to know so much about the founding of our nation and who claims insight into current events but cannot see the obvious problems with Mormonism.
Like comedian Emo Philips said to his mormon in-laws, it must be tough to belong to a religion that’s so easy to disprove.
I found my Nom De Jeur “Vendome” on some “Haters of LDS” site yesterday.
I don’t hate Mormons any more than they hate Christians.
We are Doctrinaly and theologically at odds, with far too many Christians giving LDS a pass and thinking Mormons are Christians too.
Mormons, on the other hand, have no misconceptions about what they are and what Christians are, which are divorced from each other.
Catholics and Baptists are part of the larger Body of Christ.
LDS is it’s own island, or inter-space stopover or planet....
I had a study with two "elders" and began sharing with them the controversies surrounding their "holy" books and leader. One of the boys became genuinely interested and was asking questions. The other one didn't like it.
We scheduled a subsequent meeting. When I showed up for that, the boy who was asking questions was not there. It was someone else in his place. They said the boy who asked the questions was transferred to another city.
That's how they deal with controversy, viz. ship somebody to a reeducation center.
Not Mormon here, but can’t help but wonder: what’s NYT’s interest in this subject?
It took me decades to realize that all religions are based on myths and designed to do 2 things, control the masses and take your money.
Blessed are those that found 'doubt' before Al Gore invented the Web!
They need only to search their own chosen religious organization's publications and they'll find DOUBT aplenty!
* Here's what Greetings_puny_humans posted in Nov 2010:
Special Fireside for Disaffected Swedish LDS Saints
* Here's what I posted in an article in August 2012 (scroll down to link: The Swedish Rescue):
'Spiritual Olympics' Series (S.O.S.): A Glimpse of Mormonism Around the Globe [Vanity]
This shows the "major crisis" Swedish Mormons underwent, as described by this Swedish Mormon in this NY Times piece.
From the article: Is it true that Smith took dozens of wives, some as young as 14 and some already wed to other Mormon leaders, to the great pain of his first wife, Emma? About that last question, Mr. Mattsson said, “That was kind of shocking.” Mr. Mattsson said he sought the help of the church’s highest authorities. He said a senior apostle came to Sweden at his request and told a meeting of Mormons that he had a manuscript in his briefcase that, once it was published, would prove all the doubters wrong. But Mr. Mattsson said the promised text never appeared, and when he asked the apostle about it, he was told it was impertinent to ask. (Mr. Mattsson refused to identify the apostle, but others said it was Elder L. Tom Perry, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Elder Perry, now 91, confirmed through a church spokesman that he did visit a branch in Sweden with skeptical members, but said he recalled satisfying their questions with a letter written by the church’s history department.) That encounter is what really set off Mr. Mattsson’s doubts. He began reading everything he could. He listened to the “Mormon Stories” podcasts. And he read “Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling,” a biography by Richard Lyman Bushman, a historian at Columbia University and a prominent Mormon. Mr. Bushman said in a telephone interview: “You would be amazed at the number of Mormons who don’t think Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. It just wasn’t talked about. It was never mentioned in church periodicals. That was policy.”
Joseph Fielding Smith was a "prophet" of the Mormon Church...in the late 1950s into the early 60s, he wrote a 5-volume question-and-answer style series entitled Doctrines of Salvation.
I've read all 5 volumes. Volume 2 was published in 1979 by the Deseret Book Co. -- a company DIRECTLY owned by THE Official Mormon Church.
In chapter 26, Joseph Fielding Smith takes on question related to Eternal Marriage.
In his response to a topical question on that matter, Joseph Fielding Smith says:
"This marriage was not intended to be broken" [by death], "and the idea of death and an eternal separation never entered into it. Unfortunately in the great apostasy which swept over the earth, the words of the Lord to the Pharisees" [Matthew 22:2331 and in Luke 20:27-38] " were misinterpreted because the spirit of revelation had ceased. Therefore the Christian world, Protestant and Catholic, has fallen into this fatal error." (Vol. 2, p. 119)
* Why are your 'prophets' accusing us of committing 'fatal errors' re: marriage, especially when Jesus clearly said marriage wasn't for heavenly purposes?
* If the Protestant and Catholic view of heaven includes being ONE JOYOUS FAMILY living in perfect unity, how is the Protestant Catholic view 'anti-marriage' or 'anti-family'??? "Fatal error" as your 'prophet' claims??? (IOW, won't we all be together if indeed we are as members of the same earthly family all saved?)
* In fact, isn't it Mormons who say "exaltation" (the highest kingdom in heaven) is NOT 'family-based'
-- IS individual-based (see Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 5, p. 169)
-- & therefore WILL be breaking up marriages and families all according to where they will "land" in the 3 "glories" of Mormondom?
* Doesn't 2 Cor. 11:2 say, properly allegorized, that the apostle Paul "promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him"?
* And...don't passages like Matt. 9:15, Matt. 25:1-10, John 3:29, & Rev. 18:23 all reference Jesus as the "bridegroom?"
* And don't MANY passages (Eph. 5; Rev. 18:23; 19:7; 21:2, 9; 22:17) reference the universal church as the "bride of Christ?"
* Have these NO eternal meaning AT ALL about a promised spiritual intimacy between Christ, the Bridegroom, and His Church????
***********************
Joseph Fielding Smith was a "prophet" of the Mormon Church...in the late 1950s into the early 60s, he wrote a 5-volume question-and-answer style series entitled Doctrines of Salvation.
I've read all 5 volumes. In Volume 4, it went thru its 7th printing in 1979...and was originally published by the Deseret Book Co. in 1963 -- a company DIRECTLY owned by THE Official Mormon Church.
In chapter 42, Joseph Fielding Smith takes on THIS question related to the earliest polygamy practiced by Joseph Smith and the earliest Mormons:
Representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses called at my home and endeavored to disprove statements in the Book of Mormon. Among other things they claimed there was a discrepancy between Jacob 2:24-27 and Doctrine and Covenants 132:39. It was also their contention that the doctrine of plural marriage was condemned in the Book of Jacob and that the practice of this principle IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE CHURCH was not only a contradiction of Bible doctrine of also of the Book of Mormon. Will you please give answer to this problem? (p. 212)
At the bottom of the next page (p. 213), Joseph Fielding Smith has a heading, "There is No Contradiction" -- and on p. 214, Joseph Fielding Smith cites Jacob 2:30 from the Book of Mormon as "proof" of "no contradiction":
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up SEED unto me, I will command my people...
So...claims this Mormon "prophet"...This -- seed-raising -- was THE so-called "purpose" for these (mainly) EARLY Mormon LEADERS practicing polygamy from...
...the early 1830s...when Joseph Smith started fooling around with young teen Fanny Alger...
...to the early 1840s when a few OTHER Mormon leaders began following Joseph Smith's plural-wife taking lead...
...[And I note: Based upon Joseph Fielding Smith's response, the Utah polygamy years -- 1846 thru the rest of the 19th century -- would be quite "debateable" to toss in here as "relevant" to the question the Mormon "prophet" was answering...see more on this below]
So. Since Joseph Smith was told to be practically THE ONLY Mormon to practice polygamy for that first decade (1831-1841 or so)...here's the $Million question behind this post:
It's likely at least one Smith child was miscarried when first-wife Emma Smith booted a pregnant plural wife down some stairs...beyond that...
"Though there were allegations of paternity in some of these polygamous marriages, no children have ever been proven to be Smith's. There is ongoing genetic research to determine if any descendants of alleged children have Smith's genetic markers, and so far all tests have been negative." [Source: Children of Joseph Smith]
WELL, a Mormon might counter...perhaps the Mormon god was talking more about the seed to be raised by Mormons over a 40-year period (roughly 1850s to early 1890s)?
Well, for those who might contemplate that, there's two HUGE problems to that "theory"...
The direct response Joseph Fielding Smith gave thru the OFFICIAL Mormon Church publishing house in 1963 related to a specific Jehovah's Witness challenge re: "the practice of this principle IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE CHURCH..."
Those "early days" in the church were the upstate NY, the Kirtland, Ohio, the Missouri, and the Nauvoo, IL years -- when polygamy was being introduced ...[NOT the Utah years]
And besides, even for those who would like to include the first, say couple dozen Utah years into this "early mix" of the POLY Church of Mormon...those controversial Brigham Young-led years...please note this 2011 Indiana University article.
While I disagree with this study's evolutionary crap injected by this university that "sainted" pedophile champ Kinsey, indeed the simple math involved from this study is born out:
Polygamy practiced by some 19th century Mormon men had the curious effect of suppressing the overall offspring numbers of Mormon women in plural marriages, say scientists from Indiana University Bloomington and three other institutions...Simply put, the more sister-wives a Mormon woman had, the fewer children she was likely to produce...."the number each wife produced goes down by one child or so..."
What's so curious about that? Brigham Young had 55 wives & 57 children...figure the averages...Joseph Smith, Jr. had children in single-figures -- perhaps ALL from his FIRST wife...27 wives...11 of them he stole from other men by marrying them when they were already married! (Not only was he a counterfeit "prophet," but a counterfeit husband and counterfeit "seed-raiser" as well!)
How interesting.
All of this is contrary to common myth:
Actually, 19th and early 20th century Mormon polygamy resulted in less children per mom, not more!
So why would some conclude that it's more natural to have less kids??? [Unless, of course, you're anti-child Planned Parenthood types]
*********************************
From the article: Is it true that Smith took dozens of wives, some as young as 14 and some already wed to other Mormon leaders, to the great pain of his first wife, Emma? About that last question, Mr. Mattsson said, “That was kind of shocking.” Mr. Mattsson said he sought the help of the church’s highest authorities. He said a senior apostle came to Sweden at his request and told a meeting of Mormons that he had a manuscript in his briefcase that, once it was published, would prove all the doubters wrong. But Mr. Mattsson said the promised text never appeared, and when he asked the apostle about it, he was told it was impertinent to ask. (Mr. Mattsson refused to identify the apostle, but others said it was Elder L. Tom Perry, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Elder Perry, now 91, confirmed through a church spokesman that he did visit a branch in Sweden with skeptical members, but said he recalled satisfying their questions with a letter written by the church’s history department.) That encounter is what really set off Mr. Mattsson’s doubts. He began reading everything he could. He listened to the “Mormon Stories” podcasts. And he read “Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling,” a biography by Richard Lyman Bushman, a historian at Columbia University and a prominent Mormon. Mr. Bushman said in a telephone interview: “You would be amazed at the number of Mormons who don’t think Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. It just wasn’t talked about. It was never mentioned in church periodicals. That was policy.”
Joseph Fielding Smith was a "prophet" of the Mormon Church...in the late 1950s into the early 60s, he wrote a 5-volume question-and-answer style series entitled Doctrines of Salvation.
I've read all 5 volumes. Volume 3 was published in 1979 by the Deseret Book Co. -- a company DIRECTLY owned by THE Official Mormon Church.
In chapter 40, Joseph Fielding Smith takes on question related to the earliest polygamy practiced by Joseph Smith and the earliest Mormons...the chapter was entitled "Plural marriage in the early days"
In his response to a topical question on that matter, Joseph Fielding Smith says:
"According to the teachings and practice in the Church when a man and woman are married in the temple, and the wife dies, the man is at LIBERTY to MARRY ANOTHER wife for time and for ALL eternity." (Vol. 3, p. 162)
So, from a Mormon perspective, what does that mean to them?
It means thus: