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Are you (Catholics) Saved?
Orbis ^ | May 4, 2013

Posted on 05/05/2013 10:16:01 AM PDT by NYer

Are you saved?

Have you ever been asked this question? Has anyone ever told you that Catholics think they can work their way into Heaven?

The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works - that we can “work” our way into Heaven. And, the Bible does not teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “Faith Alone” appears, is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone. However, if works have nothing to do with our salvation, then how come every passage in the New Testament that talks about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone? (See Rom 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Ptr 1, Rev 20 and 22, 2 Cor 5, and many, many more verses).

If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of "faith and works" is necessary, or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love." (Just as the Church teaches.)

St. Paul said he needed to work out his salvation with "fear and trembling." If anyone professed their faith in Jesus it was Paul. If he felt so assured of his salvation because of his faith alone in Jesus, why then would he be trembling, and have to work out his salvation?

So, the next time someone asks you if you are saved, the Catholic should reply:

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)." ♥


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicism; christianity; salvation; theology
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: NYer

......“What does GOD want you to be?”......

His.


61 posted on 05/05/2013 4:58:35 PM PDT by caww

To: smvoice

The question you answered is indicative of the attitude that man can somehow by his own actions be justified. Institutionalized religion has failed the masses in so many ways.


62 posted on 05/05/2013 5:18:13 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)

To: Salvation

Still stuck on the carnal/physical rather than the spiritual?


63 posted on 05/05/2013 5:20:04 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)

To: CynicalBear

Sorry to disappoint your thinking, but what could be more spiritual than the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist?

Sorry you don’t understand that.


64 posted on 05/05/2013 5:22:48 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)

To: metmom

It’s really sad to see so many people have been convinced that somehow they need to “earn” some part of their salvation. They deny the all sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ.


65 posted on 05/05/2013 5:22:54 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)

To: Salvation
Still stuck on the physical ey?

Those who call themselves Catholic who belong to the Roman Catholic Church would have us believe that Jesus was talking about his physical flesh. This is in direct contradiction to Jesus own teaching.>p> Now let’s go to the next verse where Jesus begins to explain.

Let’s put the verse back into context and deal with what Jesus really told His apostles and us.

John 6:54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.

Notice where He said “this is the breadwhich came down out of heaven? Jesus was not talking about His physical flesh. Jesus said His words are spirit, not flesh.

John 6:63 The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life,

It’s the spirit that giveth life, not the flesh.

2 Cor. 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Now let Jesus Himself tell us what that “bread” is.

Jesus puts the analogy into perspective by pointing to the metaphor of the manna from heaven which was a symbol of Jesus coming from heaven.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Jesus Himself tells us that He is that bread which came down from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Do a study on the symbolism of bread, including unleavened bread, throughout the bible starting with the manna in the desert and you will understand that the focus on Jesus physical flesh is nothing more then a pagan practice.

66 posted on 05/05/2013 5:30:03 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)

To: Alex Murphy
Who, then, can be saved?

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Those who are born again of The Spirit are the ones who are saved. God's Word is The Final Authority to 'born again' believers.

67 posted on 05/05/2013 6:17:09 PM PDT by presently no screen name

To: xzins
"The bottom line is this: it’s ALL of grace."

Amen.

68 posted on 05/05/2013 6:20:36 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)

To: Salvation
Water baptism does NOT save you. Believing in Jesus does.

John 10:27-29 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 3:14-16 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:37-40 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

If baptism is necessary for salvation then Jesus was either very negligent in not stating it more clearly, or He lied when He said it was simply by faith, believing in the name of Jesus, people HAD eternal life..

69 posted on 05/05/2013 6:20:59 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)

To: boatbums
Former Roman Catholic, born again Christian. I now know I’m safe!

Same here!

70 posted on 05/05/2013 6:22:43 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)

To: CynicalBear

Word for *flesh* in:

John 6:51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56
http://bible.cc/john/6-51.htm

John 6:63
http://biblos.com/john/6-63.htm

The word for *flesh* is the same in BOTH verses.

http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
sarx: flesh
Short Definition: flesh, body
Definition: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.

It is the exact same word used in Galatians 5 and Romans 8. There is also much more commentary at this link:http://biblesuite.com/greek/4561.htm
which I would post but would show up in HTML and mess up a simple post.

***************************************************************
However, it is NOT the same word as used in the Last Supper....

Matthew Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19, Matthew 26:26, 1 Corinthians 11:24, 27, 29

soma: a body
Short Definition: body, flesh
Definition: body, flesh; the body of the Church.

There is also a more in depth analysis of the word *soma* at this link: http://biblesuite.com/greek/4983.htm
***************************************************************
It goes to prove that what Jesus said in John 6 and during the Last Supper do not refer to the same thing. Therefore He did not mean the same thing. What He gave the disciples to eat and said was his body was not sarx but soma.

Therefore, by a brief study of the Bible, we can conclusively see that the Catholic teaching on the eating of the literal flesh of Jesus is wrong.


71 posted on 05/05/2013 6:30:43 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)

To: Former Fetus; boatbums; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...
bb:Former Roman Catholic, born again Christian. I now know I’m safe!

FF:Same here!

mm: Make that three.

72 posted on 05/05/2013 6:33:32 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)

To: Iscool
So are you afraid to listen to it, or did you lie when you said before that you would listen to it?
73 posted on 05/05/2013 6:34:35 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)

To: metmom
**Water baptism does NOT save you.**

Born Again in Baptism


 

One key Scripture reference to being "born again" or "regenerated" is John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." 

This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. "Born again" Christians claim the "water" is the preached word of God. 

But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5). 

No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism. 

Justin Martyr

"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]). 

Irenaeus

"‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]). 

Tertullian

"[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life’" (Baptism 12:1 [A.D. 203]). 

Hippolytus

"The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism" (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8 [A.D. 217]). 

The Recognitions of Clement

"But you will perhaps say, ‘What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?’ In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so . . . you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: ‘Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water . . . he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (The Recognitions of Clement 6:9 [A.D. 221]). 

Testimonies Concerning the Jews

"That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’ [John 3:5]. . . . Also in the same place: ‘Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye shall not have life in you’ [John 6:53]. That it is of small account to be baptized and to receive the Eucharist, unless one profit by it both in deeds and works" (Testimonies Concerning the Jews 3:2:25–26 [A.D. 240]). 

Cyprian of Carthage

"[When] they receive also the baptism of the Church . . . then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God . . . since it is written, ‘Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’" (Letters 71[72]:1 [A.D. 253]). 

Council of Carthage VII

"And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ . . . Unless therefore they receive saving baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ" (Seventh Carthage [A.D. 256]). 

Cyril of Jerusalem

"Since man is of a twofold nature, composed of body and soul, the purification also is twofold: the corporeal for the corporeal and the incorporeal for the incorporeal. The water cleanses the body, and the Spirit seals the soul. . . . When you go down into the water, then, regard not simply the water, but look for salvation through the power of the Spirit. For without both you cannot attain to perfection. It is not I who says this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter. And he says, ‘Unless a man be born again,’ and he adds the words ‘of water and of the Spirit,’ ‘he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ He that is baptized with water, but is not found worthy of the Spirit, does not receive the grace in perfection. Nor, if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it" (Catechetical Lectures 3:4 [A.D. 350]). 

Athanasius

"[A]s we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened" (Four Discourses Against the Arians 3:26[33] [A.D. 360]). 

Basil the Great

"This then is what it means to be ‘born again of water and Spirit’: Just as our dying is effected in the water [Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12–13], our living is wrought through the Spirit. In three immersions and an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water, but from the Spirit’s presence there" (The Holy Spirit 15:35 [A.D. 375]). 

Ambrose of Milan

"Although we are baptized with water and the Spirit, the latter is much superior to the former, and is not therefore to be separated from the Father and the Son. There are, however, many who, because we are baptized with water and the Spirit, think that there is no difference in the offices of water and the Spirit, and therefore think that they do not differ in nature. Nor do they observe that we are buried in the element of water that we may rise again renewed by the Spirit. For in the water is the representation of death, in the Spirit is the pledge of life, that the body of sin may die through the water, which encloses the body as it were in a kind of tomb, that we, by the power of the Spirit, may be renewed from the death of sin, being born again in God" (The Holy Spirit1:6[75–76] [A.D. 381]). 

"The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ’s blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11–12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism. 
. . . ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’" (Abraham 2:11:79–84 [A.D. 387]). 

"You have read, therefore, that the three witnesses in baptism are one: water, blood, and the Spirit (1 John 5:8): And if you withdraw any one of these, the sacrament of baptism is not valid. For what is the water without the cross of Christ? A common element with no sacramental effect. Nor on the other hand is there any mystery of regeneration without water, for ‘unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’" (The Mysteries 4:20 [A.D. 390]). 

Gregory of Nyssa

"[In] the birth by water and the Spirit, [Jesus] himself led the way in this birth, drawing down upon the water, by his own baptism, the Holy Spirit; so that in all things he became the firstborn of those who are spiritually born again, and gave the name of brethren to those who partook in a birth like to his own by water and the Spirit" (Against Eunomius 2:8 [A.D. 382]). 

John Chrysostom

"[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of heaven except he be regenerated through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink his blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed head [the Mystical Body of Christ]" (The Priesthood 3:5–6 [A.D. 387]). 

Gregory of Nazianz

"Such is the grace and power of baptism; not an overwhelming of the world as of old, but a purification of the sins of each individual, and a complete cleansing from all the bruises and stains of sin. And since we are double-made, I mean of body and soul, and the one part is visible, the other invisible, so the cleansing also is twofold, by water and the Spirit; the one received visibly in the body, the other concurring with it invisibly and apart from the body; the one typical, the other real and cleansing the depths" (Oration on Holy Baptism 7–8 [A.D. 388]). 

The Apostolic Constitutions

"Be ye likewise contented with one baptism alone, that which is into the death of the Lord [Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12–13]. . . . [H]e that out of contempt will not be baptized shall be condemned as an unbeliever and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says, ‘Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ And again, ‘He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned’" [Mark 16:16] (Apostolic Constitutions 6:3:15 [A.D. 400]). 

Augustine

"It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that infant is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, ‘Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents’ or ‘by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him,’ but, ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit.’ The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam" (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 412]). 

"Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ—it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, ‘Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’" [Matt. 10:32] (The City of God 13:7 [A.D. 419]). 

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004


74 posted on 05/05/2013 6:40:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)

To: metmom; Salvation
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Catholics admit they are looking forward to that judgment which shall never come for Christians...

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Those doing the judging will be the saints; Christians...

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

At this time, all the Christians, (saints) are in heaven and return with Jesus when he comes at the 2nd Coming...This takes place long before the judgment of the Catholics who are waiting for that judgment...

Thank God, there are undoubtedly some Catholics who unknowingly will be in for the ride of their lives when the Rapture happens...

75 posted on 05/05/2013 6:51:57 PM PDT by Iscool

To: Alex Murphy

“Who, then, can be saved?...etc”

Read the passage below, John 14: 1-6...

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
(John 14:1-6 KJV)

Jesus said it very clearly in John 14:6 (above)...”no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”


76 posted on 05/05/2013 6:52:11 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea

To: publius911

“The absolutely best proselytizers don’t love to hear themselves talk. They teach by example.”


Mar_16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to TEACH and PREACH Jesus Christ.

Since even infidels have “good examples,” so far as man is capable of, the Gospel must be preached and not hidden away under excuses of “I proselytize by example.” The latter would make you no different than any atheist or member of any religion throughout the world.


77 posted on 05/05/2013 6:52:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans

To: verga
So are you afraid to listen to it, or did you lie when you said before that you would listen to it?

I already listened to that guy's testimony of being (born) a Baptist, becoming a Pentecostal and then coming home to your Catholic religion...I watched and listened to his non-sensical attempt at refuting the Rapture...I watched and listened to his perverting and distorting of scripture to defend the existance of your Catholic religion...

I listened to this fella proclaim that because the Woman in Rev. 12 has feet, it is absolute proof that Mary, the mother of Jesus is the Woman in that chapter and that she is physically (bodily) in heaven and is the queen of heaven...Incontrovertable proof...

I don't think I could stand to listen to any more of this guy, unless of course I first threw away my Bible and forgot everything that was in it...

78 posted on 05/05/2013 7:03:14 PM PDT by Iscool

To: metmom; Former Fetus; boatbums; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww
bb:Former Roman Catholic, born again Christian. I now know I’m safe!

FF:Same here!

mm: Make that three.

Praise the Lord!

My wife was a RC and became a Born Again Christian, my Father-in-Law was also Born Again before his death. I suspect there are a fair number of RC's that don't have a strong theological foundation but have faith in Jesus Christ. My experience has been that they are caught up in the misguided notions that their church has a say in their salvation and that their works are critical. For my wife and FIL it was just a question of teaching them The Gospel and letting them figure out it's impact.

79 posted on 05/05/2013 7:03:16 PM PDT by wmfights

To: Natural Law; All

“Sola Fide is a strange and contradictory dogma adopted by the Reformation. Faith is an act of the intellect assenting to a truth which is beyond its grasp and is therefore itself an act of the will and a work. Professing that we are saved by faith alone asserts that we are the authors of our own Salvation and is a corruption of the Catholic doctrine that Actual Grace must be cooperated with by the recipient through works of mercy.

Peace be with you. “


Faith is itself the gift of God. Those who “choose” Christ, in fact, were actually chosen by Christ.

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

One cannot know that Jesus is the Messiah unless it is revealed by the Holy Spirit:

Mat 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

1Co_12:3 ... no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Those who believe not, aren’t in such a condition because they were drawn and refused to be drawn. Rather, they were not drawn at all:

Here is Christ speaking to the murmuring Jews who disbelieved His words:

Joh 6:42-44 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? (43) Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. (44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Here is Christ reasserting the point against those who do not believe:

Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Here is John the Baptist asserting that no one can receive anything except if it is given by the Father:

Joh 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Those who are chosen, are not chosen because of any foreseen works, but for the will and purpose of God.

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Rom 9:11-16 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) (12) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. (13) As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. (16) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We are told to “work out our salvation,” but a sentence later, we are told that it is God who works and wills in us for us to do.

Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.

Salvation, therefore, is all of God.

The Roman Catholic view of “cooperation of grace,” or meriting grace, is incompatible with the previous scriptures and the definition of grace.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Salvation is either wholly by the grace of God, or it is by wholly by works. But as we know, the law says to those who are under it, that they are guilty before God. From the law comes the knowledge of sin, but not salvation.


80 posted on 05/05/2013 7:07:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans


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