Opening Wartime Archives? (Pope Francis will open Pope Pius XII - Shoah - WWII-era archives)

Jewish Week ^ | 03/14/13 | Stewart Ain and Steve Lipman

[Mrs. Don-o]

More on Catholic-Jewish relations."Ne era" or not, it's never looked better.

[vladimir998]

It should be said that this has been in the works for YEARS.

[ClearCase_guy]

publicly called for the opening of the Vatican archives to learn the true role Pope Pius XII during the Holocaust

From what I know, I think this will turn out fine. I believe Pius XII was a good man. But beyond that particular issue, the world needs leaders who are willing to pull back the curtain, reveal the truth of things and just let the chips fall where they may.

I believe the world has become consumed by lies, nothing is really knowable, and much goes on that we are not aware of. I want all the archives opened everywhere on the planet. What have we to lose?

[NKP_Vet]

Pius was a hero. He saved thousands of Jews from certain death and this is what Pope Francis wants the liberal Catholic Church haters to know.

[llevrok]

I am looking forward to learning more of the “Vatican Intelligence Agency named “S.I.V.”, a code from “Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano”.

Some doors opened may wish to stay shut.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Mrs. Don-o.

[SuziQ]

By continuing to air the accusations of the liberals against the actions of Cardinal Bergoglio in Argentina, they're trying to gin up negativity against him, as they have been able to do against Pius XII. It's not clear from this article if Pope Francis actually WILL open all the archives, but I hope he will. I believe the information will exonerate Pius XII, even though it may shed unfavorable light on some other priests in Germany, Poland, or in Italy.

But regarding the accusations against Bergoglio, my b-i-l told me that the two Jesuits who were imprisoned by the Argentinian government, actually WERE guilty of fomenting revolution, being supporters of Liberation Theology, but that Bergoglio was able to obtain their release, and he had them sent to Italy.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Getting along with others is fine, but I'll never understand why any Orthodox Jew would want to have a member of another religion to participate in, and address, a Jewish congregation during prayers.

Evidently ecumania knows no boundaries. (Duh.)

[kabumpo]

Rabbi Schneir in NY is a disgrace of a leftist, a disgrace to his religion, so I read this article differently for seeing his name in it.

[dfwgator]

Maybe so....but the Church’s role in the Ustashe’s bloody reign in Croatia is a huge black mark on the Church.

[Mercat]

I’m thinking of the end of Shindler’s List when Schindler broke down and kept crying that he could have done more. Everyone in that time could have done more.

[GreyFriar]

worth reading

[jjotto]

Nobody addresses a traditional Jewish congregation “during prayers”.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Nobody addresses a traditional Jewish congregation “during prayers”.

I would hope not.

I still don't understand all this ecumania, and I never will.

[haffast]

More support for “Papa” from the Left:

The shoes of the fisherman: Pope Francis stands with the poor
http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/

“Before he was a devoted husband and father, or a U.S. Senator, or a presidential candidate of historic accomplishments, Barack Obama took a job working as a community organizer for a group of eight Catholic parishes in one of the nation’s largest cities. With funding from the U.S. Bishops and working for three years out of an office in a Catholic church rectory, he embarked on a campaign to empower the lives of thousands of people who were suffering through economic circumstances not unlike what has befallen our country today. “
http://www.catholicdemocrats.org/cfo/the_catholic_case_for_obama.php

And in 2008 note the Catholics For Obama boardmembers:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7727

[jjotto]

hehe

Since the Christmas season used to be celebrated by harassing and murdering Jews, Christians enthusiastic to celebrate Chanukah could be seen as a giant step forward.

[NKP_Vet]

All Popes support the poor. This is the calling from Jesus Christ. The “left” will despise him for the exact same reasons they despise all Popes, and that’s the Church’s teachings on abortion, marriage, contraception and women ordination. And, all Christians support the poor. This certainly is not the domain of democrats. Christians give more to charity than hypocrite democrats, who give nothing.
The biggest hypocrite of all is the baffoon Joe Biden, who gave about $20 last year to charitable causes. Liberals have to have something to praise the Pope about so they talk about the poor, while at the same time blasting him on 99% of other Catholic social issues, which never change.

[BillyBoy]

>> I explained that I could not understand how a person — a spiritual leader — didn’t involve himself more and more during the Shoah [Holocaust]. <<

Rabbi, if you were surrounded on all sides by Axis powers who hate you and pledge to exterminate you if you say ANYTHING negative, would you be "speaking out" more or working to save people BEHIND the scenes? If you still can't figure out the answer to this one, ask yourselves why Jewish leaders didn't "speak out" against Emperor Nero and other Roman leaders more when declared Christianity was an illegal religion were rounding up Christians for torture. Do you think Jewish temples would have accomplished anything besides getting themselves targeted for repercussions if they had "spoken out" against Roman authorities?

[Zionist Conspirator]

hehe

Since the Christmas season used to be celebrated by harassing and murdering Jews, Christians enthusiastic to celebrate Chanukah could be seen as a giant step forward.

Yes, and non-Jews (even idolators) were permitted to offer sacrifices to HaShem in the Beit HaMiqdash, but the context of the modern "ecumenical" movement is quite different, and quite sinister. The ultimate teaching is that all religions (and even all gods) are equally valid, and so they may be mixed or blended into a great human syncretic religion that is made up of portions of all of them but which is identical with none. As a Noachide I am well aware that Judaism is not conventionally proselytary ("conventionally" being the operative word), but it does not teach that all religions and all gods are equally valid. As I understand it, according to Noachide Halakhah, the creation of all religions, religious rites, and religious holidays since Mt. Sinai is forbidden. This means that all non-Jewish religions exist in defiance of Divine Law.

What, if any, effort, is being made to instruct the chrstian "partners" about this? Are they being told in even the most basic way that non-Jews are supposed to be Noachides and nothing else? Or are they implying, whether they mean it or not, that all that HaShem demands of non-Jews is that they not be "bigots" and that they acknowledge Churban 'Europa'? You will, I hope, excuse me for wondering if the Jewish partners in these "dialogues" are not being terribly naive, if not negligent of their duty. I mean, just think about it for a minute: why should two religions "dialogue" about anything? Two contradictory religions cannot both simultaneously be right. What are they doing? Sneakily trying to convert each other? Or negotiating a syncretistic merger? Because any and all such "dialogues" among contradictory religions must ultimately imply one of the two.

I have two further reservations. First, Chanukkah is the wrong holiday to have these get-togethers for the simple reason that it can so easily be (and has so often been) twisted into a celebration of the "enlightenment" notion of "freedom or religion," a concept alien to the Torah and of rationalist and Protestant origin. The second is that the only thing that tends to happen is that the Jewish partners, rather than even present the Noachide message, simply dictate changes in the non-Jews' religious beliefs and practices. Excuse me? If you can demand that other religions change their beliefs/practices, you can certainly simply tell them that their religions are WRONG and opposed to the Divine Will.

What all this invariably results in is the encouragement of the most radical, leftist, and G-dless elements of the false religions (because, quite naturally, these elements are more "tolerant") and the quiet resentment of the more conservative and "orthodox" elements (who of course aren't as "tolerant") who regard their Jewish "partners" as hypocrites and bullies. How would you feel if an orthodox chrstian or moslem refused to change his beliefs or practices while demanding that Jews stop praying in Hebrew or drop the `al hamalshinim benediction?

Vatican II was not an entirely good thing. Why is that so hard to understand? The fact that it improved the Catholic attitude towards the Jews doesn't change the fact that everything else about that subversive council was a disaster. Believe me--Jews don't need to be associated in the public Catholic mind with the Vatican II church. That's exactly like being associated with the modern Democrat party. Unfortunately, Jewish ecumenicists refuse to look at any other issue.

Here's a suggestion: how about having these leaders of other religions as guests for Shavu`ot? Wouldn't that be a much more appropriate holiday to celebrate Jews' relationship with non-Jews, since the Revelation at Sinai basically finalized religion for both groups? But no, no one ever considers non-Jews at Shavu`ot. It's always Chanukkah, because that holiday's message is more easily twisted into a celebration of the life and legacy of Thomas Paine.

Philosophy ping to wideawake.

[jjotto]

Sukkot will be observed by all the nations in the times of the Messiah.

Agudath Israel and Chabad are two organizations whose members do not engage in ecumenical exercises. Chabad, of course, is a pioneer at publicizing the Sheva Mitzvot B’nai Noach, but now almost everyone Orthodox is on that bandwagon.