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Reformation Day: What the Original Protestant Actually Taught
Catholic Sistas ^ | 10/30/12 | Tiffany P

Posted on 10/31/2012 7:09:25 AM PDT by marshmallow

Today marks one day shy of 495 years since Martin Luther first initiated what would become known as the Protestant Reformation, by nailing his ninety-five theses—protests against the Catholic Church—to the door of All Saints’ Church in Wittenburg, Germany. Many Protestants around the world celebrate or publicly acknowledge today, October 30th, as Reformation Day. I have witnessed many evangelical Protestants elevate today as a joyous day in Church history, claiming that Martin Luther was led by God in his disputes.

But what did Martin Luther stand for, exactly? Indeed, most Catholics and Protestants alike associate him with his “five solas” of the reformation, particularly sola fide (faith alone) and sola scriptura (Scripture alone). These two tenants continue to be the dividing line between Catholics and Protestants, as Catholics continue to hold to the same Teachings the Church did for the 1500 years before Luther: justification by both faith and working out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12) and the acknowledgement of the Teachings of God preserved both by letter (Scripture) and by word of mouth (2 Thess 2:15).

Most evangelical Protestants focus on these issues when they praise Luther for his initiation of the reformation, but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. Following is a list of beliefs and accompanying quotes from Luther that leads to the undeniable truth that if he were to return to Earth today, he would not stand in favor of the vast majority of modern Protestantism.

The original Christian Church built on Peter

Modern evangelical Protestants, when faced with Matthew 16:18-19 in which Jesus establishes the Church on Peter, have various different interpretations to explain this event taking place. The most common is that Jesus is establishing his Church—an invisible unit comprised....

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicsistas.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 10/31/2012 7:09:29 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
he [Luther] would not stand in favor of the vast majority of modern Protestantism.

I suspect many of the Catholic leaders of that time would not be in favor of the vast majority of modern Catholicism.

2 posted on 10/31/2012 7:15:25 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: marshmallow; Alex Murphy; HarleyD
Always reforming w/o tarrying

What the original protestant actually taught

Slovenia celebrating reformation day

Do I sense...A slight competition going on here?

3 posted on 10/31/2012 7:26:55 AM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard
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To: HarleyD

True, but not on critical theological issues like founding the Church on Peter, the veneration of Mary, and transubstantiation.


4 posted on 10/31/2012 7:33:01 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: marshmallow

“...today, October 30th, as Reformation Day.”

Wrong. Reformation Day is celebrated on October 31, today.


5 posted on 10/31/2012 7:43:34 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: marshmallow

“but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. “

Luther was instrumental in recovering the Gospel of Grace.

It fell to others to complete the work by examining the Scriptures.


6 posted on 10/31/2012 7:51:06 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: marshmallow

If one assumes that Mathew 16: 16 - 20 establishes Peter as the head of the church, then one must also assume that Mathew 16: 21 - 23 establishes Peter as Satan. You can’t cherry pick the scriptures.

I am of the opinion that NEITHER assumption is true. That both are figurative and not to be taken literally. Further, the “rock” or foundation that Jesus is referring to in 16 - 20 is “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”.

Just like in verses 21 - 23, Jesus is pointing out that Peter’s outburst is not according to God’s will. And since it is not in alignment with God’s will, it was inspired by Satan.


7 posted on 10/31/2012 7:53:32 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol
If one assumes that Mathew 16: 16 - 20 establishes Peter as the head of the church, then one must also assume that Mathew 16: 21 - 23 establishes Peter as Satan.

Works for me.

8 posted on 10/31/2012 7:58:30 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

From time to time, I see articles of this type posted by Catholics and I just have to shake my head. Do they think that Luther was our “pope” and we hold him to be infallible?

No, we don’t believe any of us are infallible. Luther was wrong on plenty of things, just like all of us are. So, we are not shamed when that is pointed out to us. Nor does it invalidate any of the things that he got right.


9 posted on 10/31/2012 8:08:02 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman; aMorePerfectUnion
“but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. “

That comment points out simply the same facts that Luther realized later on in his life -- he opposed the newfangled ideas that came up with others who followed his lead -- he protested against a point and then others who followed rejected first the Real Presence in the Eucharist (which he and all subsequent Lutherans believe in) -- he was appalled by this, but then even more appalled by the third generation of reformers - the anabaptists etc. and the fourth -- the unitarians

He, Calvin and Zwingli were so appalled by people coming up with their own new half-interpretations (like the Unitarians rejection of the Trinity, or others Arianism) that they sought to have their own synod to encapsulate the faith as they believed it

But, back to the sentence, it does state a fact that many who celebrate Luther may not realize that he deeply, passionately believed in things that are inimical to them -- of course one does not include scholarly folks like you in this group.

10 posted on 10/31/2012 8:32:50 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: marshmallow
Those who might be interested in Lutheran apologetics by a near contemporary of Martin Luther can download True Christianity by Johann Arndt (1555-1621) from Project Gutenberg for free. It's available in multiple formats for ebook readers, and HTML if you would like to peruse it online.

True Christianity

A Treatise
On Sincere Repentance, True Faith, The Holy Walk of the True Christian, Etc.

By the Venerable
Johann Arndt

I've been reading it a while now, and have enjoyed it, though I am not, myself, Lutheran. He has a strong emphasis on salvation through faith alone, and that any good works you are led to do are merely fruits of the spirit.

Here's a quote that I particularly liked:

Now he who is sincerely disposed to deny himself, must follow, not his own will, but the will of Christ, who has declared, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” John 14:6. As though he had said: “Without the way, no man walketh; without the truth, nothing is known; and without life, no man liveth: therefore, look upon me, who am the way in which it is thy duty to walk, the truth in which thou art called to believe, and the life in which thou art bound to live. I am the unerring way, the infallible truth, and the everlasting life: the way to immortality is through my merit; the truth itself is in my word; and life is through the efficacy of my death; and, therefore, if thou continuest in the way, the truth will guide thee unto eternal life. If thou desirest not to go astray, follow me; if thou wilt know the truth, believe in me; and if thou wouldst possess life everlasting, put thy whole trust in me, who for thy sake have endured the death of the cross.”


11 posted on 10/31/2012 8:35:28 AM PDT by zeugma (Rid the world of those savages. - Dorothy Woods, widow of a Navy Seal, AMEN!)
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To: Boogieman
If Protestantism of today is not Luther's Protestantism, it's probably also fair to say that the Protestantism of tomorrow will not be the Protestantism of today. Amongst those who think Luther erred in some regards, there will likely be a divergence of opinion in just which areas he erred and by how much, since as you say, "we don't believe any of us are infallible". This can be and is a progressive process which may be repeated over time leading to an ongoing evolution of thought and beliefs. History bears this out as we look around us at the present diversity of religious thought which considers itself Christian.

I guess what this means is that although today is celebrated as Reformation Day, it's Reformation Day every day somewhere, for somebody, as the underlying Protestant theology plays out through time and an individual, personal thesis is nailed to a church door somewhere.

Whether this is a suitable model for the propagation and safeguarding of revealed truth is a question which I'll let others decide.

12 posted on 10/31/2012 9:26:31 AM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: Cronos

“But, back to the sentence, it does state a fact that many who celebrate Luther may not realize that he deeply, passionately believed in things that are inimical to them — of course one does not include scholarly folks like you in this group.”

An, but then none of us should be following Luther anyway - though every Christian owes him a debt of gratitude.


13 posted on 10/31/2012 9:28:25 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: marshmallow

The RCC apparently thought that Luther’s beliefs diverged enough for them to expel him for eternity from the cult of Rome. As a non-Protestant Baptist who never belonged to the Romish organization, and as a member of a church that never protested it, I stand amused at those who wish to “prove” that Luther was “catholic” in his beliefs..... which he WAS, except for his soteriology.


14 posted on 10/31/2012 9:51:03 AM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
but then none of us should be following Luther anyway

well, yet that is what most do -- a break away on a different interpretation is even today seen among Seventh Day Adventists for instance, right?

I also disagree with your statement of "every Christian" -- we see things too much through the prism of Western Christianity.

The Eastern Orthodox didn't have and don't owe anything to Luther, neither do the ancient Syriac Churches or the Assyrian or Coptic or Armenian

Based on Luther's reactions and vituperative articles in his later years I do believe he regretted at least the method he used -- why do I believe that, because he saw people reforming his reformation and then reforming that second generation and so on

he saw how Calvin was indifferent about the Real Presence in the Eucharist and then was appalled by Zwingli denying it

Then he probably shook his head at the anabaptists and was enraged by the new Arians and Unitarians that popped up -- saying that "every man" is coming up with his own changed interpretation and every man is chopping and removing something or the other

15 posted on 10/31/2012 9:58:06 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: marshmallow

“This can be and is a progressive process which may be repeated over time leading to an ongoing evolution of thought and beliefs.”

Sure, but the alternative process is also a progressive process, even if its adherents do not like to admit as much. The difference is, that at some points, the progress is frozen in place by putting some questions “off limits”, and placing them in the category of dogmatic truth, then labeling as heretics anyone who continues to hold a contrary opinion.

Then, the remaining believers can say “we’ve always believed these things”, and if you point out that they hadn’t, they have the fall-back answer of “well, those people were heretics”. It’s all a very nice rhetorical trick, but I don’t think it changes the reality of the situation at all.


16 posted on 10/31/2012 10:00:54 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Guyin4Os
"that never protested it,"

well, the baptist movement, which started in 1609 founded by John Smyth was a fourth generation reformation group -- which split from the Anabaptists (John Smyth was influenced by these when he founded the BAptist movement in Amsterdam)

Note of course that though this was a fourth generation it had nothing in common with the Polish Brethern or the Unitarians or others, just as the 6th/7th generation of reforming from reforming groups (Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witneses, Christian Scientists and yes Mormons) have next to nothing in common with each other.

17 posted on 10/31/2012 10:14:24 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Guyin4Os
"that never protested it,"

well, the baptist movement, which started in 1609 founded by John Smyth was a fourth generation reformation group -- which split from the Anabaptists (John Smyth was influenced by these when he founded the BAptist movement in Amsterdam)

Note of course that though this was a fourth generation it had nothing in common with the Polish Brethern or the Unitarians or others, just as the 6th/7th generation of reforming from reforming groups (Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witneses, Christian Scientists and yes Mormons) have next to nothing in common with each other.

18 posted on 10/31/2012 10:15:44 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

There is no competition. Or are you not interested in the REAL truth?


19 posted on 10/31/2012 10:21:20 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Guyin4Os
And the article doesn't read to 'prove' what you state, rather it seems to aim to say that those celebrating R day should also know more about what Luther actually believed in, no more

His soteriology. well, it's not Catholic/Orthodox, but then it is distinct from Arminian and from Calvinism as well.

20 posted on 10/31/2012 10:23:12 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
For example:

Catholic Scripture Study Bible - RSV Large Print Edition


"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther




21 posted on 10/31/2012 10:24:26 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Boogieman; marshmallow
well, the thing is the complexities of some things. Let's take a simple belief -- Jesus came from God

We believe that, but people believe it differently -- some posters here, Jehovah's Witnesses will point out texts that prove their point that Jesus was just a good point, others, SEventh Day Adventists will point out texts that He was the first created being but not God, and we have ideas similar to that spouted by posters of the "Messianic Jewish" or Modalist view

then there are many who reject the idea of the Trinity (the Modalists) with varied ideas -- from jehovah's witnesses to Oneness pentecostals to other views

22 posted on 10/31/2012 10:28:28 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

yup :)


23 posted on 10/31/2012 10:29:53 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

Cronos,
I wrote “every Christian” because the essence of a Christian is someone who has entrusted himself to the Gospel of Grace for salvation. There is no other path, no other Gospel, no other Savior who paid the full price of sin.

Any one who has not entrusted himself to this Gospel of Grace may belong to a Christian religion/denomination, but they are not a saint.

Luther was flawed. Of this we can be confident. Every man who walks the earth is also - except The Man.

Blessings to you.

ampu


24 posted on 10/31/2012 10:29:53 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: Cronos
The rest of the text:

The original Christian Church built on Peter

Modern evangelical Protestants, when faced with Matthew 16:18-19 in which Jesus establishes the Church on Peter, have various different interpretations to explain this event taking place. The most common is that Jesus is establishing his Church—an invisible unit comprised of all saved Christians—on the faith of Peter, not on Peter’s himself or on his authority. They also have a myriad of interpretations of what the “keys” might be referring to. However, in one of Luther’s written works, The Keys, in Conrad Bergendoff, written five years after he left the Church, he acknowledges himself what many of his modern admirers deny:

“So we stand here and with open mouth stare heavenward and invent still other keys.  Yet Christ says very clearly in Matt 16:19 that he will give the keys to Peter. He does not say he has two kinds of keys, but he gives to Peter the keys he himself has and no others. It is as if he  [Christ] were saying:’ why are you staring heavenward in search of the keys?  Do you not understand I gave them to Peter? They are indeed the keys of heaven, but they are not found in heaven.  I left them on earth. Don’t look for them in heaven or anywhere else except in Peter’s mouth where I have placed them. Peter’s mouth is my mouth, and his tongue is my key case.  His office is my office, his binding and loosing are my binding and loosing’ ”

The Protestants’ disbelief that the Scriptures point to Jesus establishing a physical Church on Peter’s authority lead to a disbelief that the Catholic Church is the original Christian Church who first passed on Christian Teachings and canonized the New Testament Scriptures. While there are a number of different theories within evangelical Protestantism as to when the Catholic Church began and who the first pope was, Luther maintained that indeed, she is the historical Church of the apostles from which all other forms of Christianity derive:

“We concede — as we must — that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God’s word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?” (Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 – 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of Luther’s Works).

Mary

In an attempt to disassociate themselves with the Catholic veneration of Mary, modern evangelical Protestantism have gone to the other extreme, in which there is little public recognition of her and aside from Christmas time, where she seems to have been relegated to merely a minor role in the nativity story. Luther, if he were here today, would want nothing to do with such discarding of the woman whom he affectionately referred to as “the holy Mother of God …the woman who crushed the Serpent’s head” (sermon at Whittenburg, January 1546). What else did Luther, as a new Protestant teacher, have to say about the blessed Mother?

The Mother of all Christians:
“It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother … “(Sermon, Christmas, 1522)

“Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother.” (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).

Conceived without Sin:
“It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin” (Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).

“She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil.” (Personal {“Little”} Prayer Book, 1522).

Perpetual Virgin:
“Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.” (Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4, 1539).
“A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ . . .” (That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew, 1523).

Worthy of Respect:
“The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).

The Eucharist

Historical writings from the early Church fathers make it plain that the first Christian Church believed in the literal presence of Christ in the Eucharist, when offered by a bishop or minister of the bishop. Despite such early writings, evangelical Protestants remain firm in the belief that Jesus was speaking metaphorically, encouraging his followers to take place in a symbolic memorial service with bread and wine. While Martin Luther had ninety-five problems with the Catholic Church, True Presence was not one of them.

Huldreich Zwingli was a reformer around Luther’s time who gained a band of followers from his proposition that the bread and wine only represents Christ. Luther forcefully disagreed, saying instead, “I would rather drink blood with the papists, than mere wine with the Zwinglians”. Further, he makes the bold assertion that only the devil would cause one to choose not to take to the clear words of Jesus in Scripture as literal, citing the early Church fathers as evidence:

“Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that it is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.” (–Luther’s Collected Works, Wittenburg Edition, no. 7 p, 391).

A common response from evangelical Protestants to all of the aforementioned words from Luther is along the lines of, “Why is it relevant that Luther thought those things? I don’t believe that his words are the Word of God, so I don’t have to believe everything he taught.”

The reason these quotes are relevant is because the same Protestants will also claim Martin Luther to have been driven by God in his personal interpretation of Scripture that concludes justification by faith alone and authority in Scripture alone. That then presses the question, how do they know Martin Luther was led by God in those areas, when they also believe him to be so wrong in others? Does it really stand to reason that the man who believed in so many tenants of faith that they strongly reject would be correct only in the areas of the ninety-five theses, even when the preceding 1500 years of Christianity never taught them? Further, if evidence shows that Martin Luther would not condone of the fundamentalist views of communion, Mary, and church history, then such Protestants must question the credibility of their faith community which is historically the result of several break-offs after the original Protestant reformer.

Luther lived to see the fruits of his work in spreading the belief that an established, authoritative priesthood is not necessary for Christianity. He observed, “There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.

Luther’s philosophy that authority rests with the community of believers who interpret Scripture on their own, rather than the bishops of the original Christian Church, crumbles under his own admission. When each individual personal interprets Scriptures based on their own reader influence and convictions, the result is a plethora of denominations, sub-sects, and free-standing faith communities who are in disagreement with one another.

Today, there are worldwide tens of thousands Christian groups, all who claim to be Bible-believing and inspired by the Holy Spirit, yet contradict each other left and right. This disunity amongst Christ’s family is the largest effect brought about by today in history, Reformation Day, and arguably the most tragic to the Body of Christ.

I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better.–Martin Luther to Pope Leo X, January 6, 1519


25 posted on 10/31/2012 10:30:06 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: marshmallow

What a load or manure. Even the first sentence is a lie: “by nailing his ninety-five theses—protests against the Catholic Church” in that Dr. Martin Luther was a loyal son of the Roman Church and didn’t “protest” in the 95 Theses, rather questioned the very questionable practice—according to other loyal Roman Catholic theologians of the day—of indulgences—that is the selling of peoples souls out of purgatory—that was prevalent at that time.

The term “Protestant” has no relation to Luther’s 95 Theses, it is rather a term given to the German princes formal protest against Charles V demand that Evangelical followers of Luther all be arrested, tried and executed—and all their books be burned. This pejorative name was given some 12 years AFTER the 95 Theses.

The totally corrupt, sexually perverted, Pope Leo X was in on the local indulgence Luther’s 95 Theses objected to—so naturally did everything in his power to stonewall Luther & his theses, to shut him up.

How modern Roman Catholics can believe such lying propaganda as spewed in this “Catholic Sisters” posting, I have no idea.

Must be why also the great majority of Roman Catholics consistently vote Democrat.


26 posted on 10/31/2012 10:36:33 AM PDT by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
the essence of a Christian is someone who has entrusted himself to the Gospel of Grace for salvation. There is no other path, no other Gospel, no other Savior who paid the full price of sin.

And all orthodoxy has believed that from apostolic times.

Luther did not inaugurate a separation in that.

27 posted on 10/31/2012 10:41:47 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: AnalogReigns
"great majority" -- don't repeat a lie, AR. It's a sad 52% to 54% majority, yeah and we FR Catholics are working to reduce that, but it's by no means a "great majority"

And, needless to remind you, your insulting statement is read by FR Catholics -- and while you and I may be separated on dogmatic issues, on conservative social issues and being anti-democrat, we are on the same page. Ditto for the OP

28 posted on 10/31/2012 10:45:08 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: HerrBlucher
And I doubt if you'll find many Protestants disregarding the 5 solae:

Scripture alone
Faith alone
Grace alone
Christ alone
Glory to God alone

I would say that the critical theological differences still remain.

29 posted on 10/31/2012 10:56:26 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Cronos

Cronos... Luther distinguished that salvation comes entirely through the substitutionary death of Christ by God’s grace and apart from any human contribution of works, ritual etc., on our own part. Works will follow saving faith as the new life of Christ flows through our spirit.

While that may be taught in orthodox churches everywhere, I’ve come to realize that every church contains those who have entrusted themselves to Christ alone - and not their own works, and those who go through the motions of church, festivals, fasting, works etc., but sadly do not have saving faith. In many churches, the simplicity of the Gospel of Grace is obscured by the rituals, traditions and works that are taught. Many do not come to saving faith.

Blessings,
ampu


30 posted on 10/31/2012 11:22:29 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: AnalogReigns
How modern Roman Catholics can believe such lying propaganda as spewed in this “Catholic Sisters” posting, I have no idea.

All I see in your post is an outburst over whether or not Luther was a "protestant".

Ironically, in your first sentence in which you called Luther "a loyal son of the Roman Church", you essentially confirm the author's overall point; namely that on many of the main tenets of the Christian faith, Luther's beliefs were/are drastically different from those found throughout modern Protestantism.

I think that's the main point of the article. And you appear to agree with it.

Thanks.

31 posted on 10/31/2012 11:46:37 AM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
salvation comes entirely through the substitutionary death of Christ by God’s grace and apart from any human contribution of works, ritual etc., on our own part.

And that is orthodox belief.

The simplicity yes, but as I said, even the simplicity of this has led to discussions -- "what if someone falls?" or "what of those who cannot (infants, mentally ill etc.)"

32 posted on 11/01/2012 12:13:48 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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