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Reformation Day: What the Original Protestant Actually Taught
Catholic Sistas ^ | 10/30/12 | Tiffany P

Posted on 10/31/2012 7:09:25 AM PDT by marshmallow

Today marks one day shy of 495 years since Martin Luther first initiated what would become known as the Protestant Reformation, by nailing his ninety-five theses—protests against the Catholic Church—to the door of All Saints’ Church in Wittenburg, Germany. Many Protestants around the world celebrate or publicly acknowledge today, October 30th, as Reformation Day. I have witnessed many evangelical Protestants elevate today as a joyous day in Church history, claiming that Martin Luther was led by God in his disputes.

But what did Martin Luther stand for, exactly? Indeed, most Catholics and Protestants alike associate him with his “five solas” of the reformation, particularly sola fide (faith alone) and sola scriptura (Scripture alone). These two tenants continue to be the dividing line between Catholics and Protestants, as Catholics continue to hold to the same Teachings the Church did for the 1500 years before Luther: justification by both faith and working out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2:12) and the acknowledgement of the Teachings of God preserved both by letter (Scripture) and by word of mouth (2 Thess 2:15).

Most evangelical Protestants focus on these issues when they praise Luther for his initiation of the reformation, but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. Following is a list of beliefs and accompanying quotes from Luther that leads to the undeniable truth that if he were to return to Earth today, he would not stand in favor of the vast majority of modern Protestantism.

The original Christian Church built on Peter

Modern evangelical Protestants, when faced with Matthew 16:18-19 in which Jesus establishes the Church on Peter, have various different interpretations to explain this event taking place. The most common is that Jesus is establishing his Church—an invisible unit comprised....

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicsistas.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
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1 posted on 10/31/2012 7:09:29 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
he [Luther] would not stand in favor of the vast majority of modern Protestantism.

I suspect many of the Catholic leaders of that time would not be in favor of the vast majority of modern Catholicism.

2 posted on 10/31/2012 7:15:25 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: marshmallow; Alex Murphy; HarleyD
Always reforming w/o tarrying

What the original protestant actually taught

Slovenia celebrating reformation day

Do I sense...A slight competition going on here?

3 posted on 10/31/2012 7:26:55 AM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard
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To: HarleyD

True, but not on critical theological issues like founding the Church on Peter, the veneration of Mary, and transubstantiation.


4 posted on 10/31/2012 7:33:01 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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To: marshmallow

“...today, October 30th, as Reformation Day.”

Wrong. Reformation Day is celebrated on October 31, today.


5 posted on 10/31/2012 7:43:34 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: marshmallow

“but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. “

Luther was instrumental in recovering the Gospel of Grace.

It fell to others to complete the work by examining the Scriptures.


6 posted on 10/31/2012 7:51:06 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: marshmallow

If one assumes that Mathew 16: 16 - 20 establishes Peter as the head of the church, then one must also assume that Mathew 16: 21 - 23 establishes Peter as Satan. You can’t cherry pick the scriptures.

I am of the opinion that NEITHER assumption is true. That both are figurative and not to be taken literally. Further, the “rock” or foundation that Jesus is referring to in 16 - 20 is “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”.

Just like in verses 21 - 23, Jesus is pointing out that Peter’s outburst is not according to God’s will. And since it is not in alignment with God’s will, it was inspired by Satan.


7 posted on 10/31/2012 7:53:32 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol
If one assumes that Mathew 16: 16 - 20 establishes Peter as the head of the church, then one must also assume that Mathew 16: 21 - 23 establishes Peter as Satan.

Works for me.

8 posted on 10/31/2012 7:58:30 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

From time to time, I see articles of this type posted by Catholics and I just have to shake my head. Do they think that Luther was our “pope” and we hold him to be infallible?

No, we don’t believe any of us are infallible. Luther was wrong on plenty of things, just like all of us are. So, we are not shamed when that is pointed out to us. Nor does it invalidate any of the things that he got right.


9 posted on 10/31/2012 8:08:02 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Boogieman; aMorePerfectUnion
“but they seem to ignore the many beliefs Luther also publicly affirmed that the same faith communities vehemently reject. “

That comment points out simply the same facts that Luther realized later on in his life -- he opposed the newfangled ideas that came up with others who followed his lead -- he protested against a point and then others who followed rejected first the Real Presence in the Eucharist (which he and all subsequent Lutherans believe in) -- he was appalled by this, but then even more appalled by the third generation of reformers - the anabaptists etc. and the fourth -- the unitarians

He, Calvin and Zwingli were so appalled by people coming up with their own new half-interpretations (like the Unitarians rejection of the Trinity, or others Arianism) that they sought to have their own synod to encapsulate the faith as they believed it

But, back to the sentence, it does state a fact that many who celebrate Luther may not realize that he deeply, passionately believed in things that are inimical to them -- of course one does not include scholarly folks like you in this group.

10 posted on 10/31/2012 8:32:50 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: marshmallow
Those who might be interested in Lutheran apologetics by a near contemporary of Martin Luther can download True Christianity by Johann Arndt (1555-1621) from Project Gutenberg for free. It's available in multiple formats for ebook readers, and HTML if you would like to peruse it online.

True Christianity

A Treatise
On Sincere Repentance, True Faith, The Holy Walk of the True Christian, Etc.

By the Venerable
Johann Arndt

I've been reading it a while now, and have enjoyed it, though I am not, myself, Lutheran. He has a strong emphasis on salvation through faith alone, and that any good works you are led to do are merely fruits of the spirit.

Here's a quote that I particularly liked:

Now he who is sincerely disposed to deny himself, must follow, not his own will, but the will of Christ, who has declared, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” John 14:6. As though he had said: “Without the way, no man walketh; without the truth, nothing is known; and without life, no man liveth: therefore, look upon me, who am the way in which it is thy duty to walk, the truth in which thou art called to believe, and the life in which thou art bound to live. I am the unerring way, the infallible truth, and the everlasting life: the way to immortality is through my merit; the truth itself is in my word; and life is through the efficacy of my death; and, therefore, if thou continuest in the way, the truth will guide thee unto eternal life. If thou desirest not to go astray, follow me; if thou wilt know the truth, believe in me; and if thou wouldst possess life everlasting, put thy whole trust in me, who for thy sake have endured the death of the cross.”


11 posted on 10/31/2012 8:35:28 AM PDT by zeugma (Rid the world of those savages. - Dorothy Woods, widow of a Navy Seal, AMEN!)
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To: Boogieman
If Protestantism of today is not Luther's Protestantism, it's probably also fair to say that the Protestantism of tomorrow will not be the Protestantism of today. Amongst those who think Luther erred in some regards, there will likely be a divergence of opinion in just which areas he erred and by how much, since as you say, "we don't believe any of us are infallible". This can be and is a progressive process which may be repeated over time leading to an ongoing evolution of thought and beliefs. History bears this out as we look around us at the present diversity of religious thought which considers itself Christian.

I guess what this means is that although today is celebrated as Reformation Day, it's Reformation Day every day somewhere, for somebody, as the underlying Protestant theology plays out through time and an individual, personal thesis is nailed to a church door somewhere.

Whether this is a suitable model for the propagation and safeguarding of revealed truth is a question which I'll let others decide.

12 posted on 10/31/2012 9:26:31 AM PDT by marshmallow (.)
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To: Cronos

“But, back to the sentence, it does state a fact that many who celebrate Luther may not realize that he deeply, passionately believed in things that are inimical to them — of course one does not include scholarly folks like you in this group.”

An, but then none of us should be following Luther anyway - though every Christian owes him a debt of gratitude.


13 posted on 10/31/2012 9:28:25 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Sorry, gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: marshmallow

The RCC apparently thought that Luther’s beliefs diverged enough for them to expel him for eternity from the cult of Rome. As a non-Protestant Baptist who never belonged to the Romish organization, and as a member of a church that never protested it, I stand amused at those who wish to “prove” that Luther was “catholic” in his beliefs..... which he WAS, except for his soteriology.


14 posted on 10/31/2012 9:51:03 AM PDT by Guyin4Os (A messianic ger-tsedek)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
but then none of us should be following Luther anyway

well, yet that is what most do -- a break away on a different interpretation is even today seen among Seventh Day Adventists for instance, right?

I also disagree with your statement of "every Christian" -- we see things too much through the prism of Western Christianity.

The Eastern Orthodox didn't have and don't owe anything to Luther, neither do the ancient Syriac Churches or the Assyrian or Coptic or Armenian

Based on Luther's reactions and vituperative articles in his later years I do believe he regretted at least the method he used -- why do I believe that, because he saw people reforming his reformation and then reforming that second generation and so on

he saw how Calvin was indifferent about the Real Presence in the Eucharist and then was appalled by Zwingli denying it

Then he probably shook his head at the anabaptists and was enraged by the new Arians and Unitarians that popped up -- saying that "every man" is coming up with his own changed interpretation and every man is chopping and removing something or the other

15 posted on 10/31/2012 9:58:06 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: marshmallow

“This can be and is a progressive process which may be repeated over time leading to an ongoing evolution of thought and beliefs.”

Sure, but the alternative process is also a progressive process, even if its adherents do not like to admit as much. The difference is, that at some points, the progress is frozen in place by putting some questions “off limits”, and placing them in the category of dogmatic truth, then labeling as heretics anyone who continues to hold a contrary opinion.

Then, the remaining believers can say “we’ve always believed these things”, and if you point out that they hadn’t, they have the fall-back answer of “well, those people were heretics”. It’s all a very nice rhetorical trick, but I don’t think it changes the reality of the situation at all.


16 posted on 10/31/2012 10:00:54 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Guyin4Os
"that never protested it,"

well, the baptist movement, which started in 1609 founded by John Smyth was a fourth generation reformation group -- which split from the Anabaptists (John Smyth was influenced by these when he founded the BAptist movement in Amsterdam)

Note of course that though this was a fourth generation it had nothing in common with the Polish Brethern or the Unitarians or others, just as the 6th/7th generation of reforming from reforming groups (Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witneses, Christian Scientists and yes Mormons) have next to nothing in common with each other.

17 posted on 10/31/2012 10:14:24 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Guyin4Os
"that never protested it,"

well, the baptist movement, which started in 1609 founded by John Smyth was a fourth generation reformation group -- which split from the Anabaptists (John Smyth was influenced by these when he founded the BAptist movement in Amsterdam)

Note of course that though this was a fourth generation it had nothing in common with the Polish Brethern or the Unitarians or others, just as the 6th/7th generation of reforming from reforming groups (Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witneses, Christian Scientists and yes Mormons) have next to nothing in common with each other.

18 posted on 10/31/2012 10:15:44 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

There is no competition. Or are you not interested in the REAL truth?


19 posted on 10/31/2012 10:21:20 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Guyin4Os
And the article doesn't read to 'prove' what you state, rather it seems to aim to say that those celebrating R day should also know more about what Luther actually believed in, no more

His soteriology. well, it's not Catholic/Orthodox, but then it is distinct from Arminian and from Calvinism as well.

20 posted on 10/31/2012 10:23:12 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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