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Should Humanity Take Religion on Interstellar Space Voyage? (Bapist preacher says NO!)
Live Science ^ | September 19, 2012 | Clara Moskowitz

Posted on 09/20/2012 9:13:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Sending people to another star will be a monumental undertaking, and the challenges will be not just technological, but human. One thorny question, experts say, is whether to involve organized religions in the effort to mount an interstellar journey.

Religious leaders argued the issue Sept. 14 in Houston at the 100 Year Starship Symposium, a meeting to discuss the prospect of sending a space mission to another star within 100 years.

The church has the resources, funding and reach to garner support for an interstellar mission, said Jason Batt, group life director at Capital Christian Center in Sacramento, Calif. Batt said there is "spiritual potential" in space travel and that the church should begin preparing an organization for an off-planet ministry.

However, others resisted the notion of involving organized religions in a starship mission. Such a voyage would likely be long, and may involve multiple generations, with perhaps 10,000 people onboard. [Are Aliens Part of God's Plan, Too?]

"The only way humanity can survive is if they leave behind the Earth-based religions," charged Rev. Alvin Carpenter, pastor at First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento. "If there's any way to make this fail, bring Earth-bound religions."

Religions, he argued, breed aggression and conflict...

(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: christianity; interstellartravel; islam; space
What kind of pastor is that guy?
1 posted on 09/20/2012 9:13:29 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We can cross that hurdle when technology allows for interstellar travel.
2 posted on 09/20/2012 9:17:26 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Actually I have always thought the opposite, that religions are the best suited to explore the stars. My Church, not just as a religion, but as a functioning organization with leaders and members and clearly defined roles, is 2000 years old. There is no other organization as old, or has lasted as long, ever. Consider that the US Government is the oldest surviving consitutional government, and it is only 223 years old.

So when we need to do projects which take generations long, like setting off for other planets, or terraforming a planet, or even handling nuclear waste, a religious organization is the only organization with the time scale to carry it out to its conclusion.

3 posted on 09/20/2012 9:21:11 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
What kind of pastor is that guy?

He's really just the captain of his bowling team. He doesn't want religion on the voyage because he thinks they will need every scrap of space for Miller Lite.

4 posted on 09/20/2012 9:22:51 PM PDT by stevem
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

One could make the argument that liberalism breeds aggression and conflict. So should we ban liberalism from the starship???????


5 posted on 09/20/2012 9:23:35 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

One could make the argument that liberalism breeds aggression and conflict. So should we ban liberalism from the starship???????


6 posted on 09/20/2012 9:24:12 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Occam’s Razor DEMANDS that there is only life on this planet..
It would a scant little bitty miniscule bit of information otherwise.. to believe other..

Occams Razor; the maxim that assumptions introduced to explain a thing must not be multiplied beyond necessity.

“We could still imagine that there is a set of laws that determines events completely for some supernatural being, who could observe the present state of the universe without disturbing it. However, such models of the universe are not of much interest to us mortals. It seems better to employ the principle known as Occam’s razor and cut out all the features of the theory that cannot be observed.”- HAwking...


7 posted on 09/20/2012 9:33:22 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This guy is a moron. Religion is a natural and civilizing thing


8 posted on 09/20/2012 9:36:00 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Vince Ferrer
My Church ... is 2000 years old.

And our Earth is 4.6 billion years old ...

Go figure!

9 posted on 09/20/2012 9:38:31 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hmmmm ..?? If you’re born again .. the Holy Ghost is kinda going with you .. isn’t He ..??


10 posted on 09/20/2012 9:44:58 PM PDT by CyberAnt ("America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth".)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

11 posted on 09/20/2012 9:52:14 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Only humans are fallen. Satan is captive here. No alien will visit this place until the Messiah returns, if there are any. I sure wouldn’t visit if I were them.

Love CS Lewis’ space trilogy.


12 posted on 09/20/2012 9:55:52 PM PDT by huldah1776
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To: huldah1776

Only humans are fallen. Satan is captive here. No alien will visit this place until the Messiah returns, if there are any. I sure wouldn’t visit if I were them.

Love CS Lewis’ space trilogy.

Maybe that is why UFOs keep a low profile...


13 posted on 09/20/2012 9:58:40 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Have you ever watched Babylon 5? What i find fascinating is that is one of the only few Sci-Fi series that has episodes that deal with religions in the future and space exploration.

They have a group of monks on the station at one point that are employed by the station personnel to sift through data for the station commander.

Commander Ivanova is Jewish and her Rabbi comes to talk to her about her dad’s death.

They also explore some of the alien’s religions and one of the station commanders literally becomes a relgious leader in the past of one of the alien species known as the minbari.

Plus B5 also has Jerry Doyle, who is a cool guy and a conservative along with Bruce Boxelietner who is as well.


14 posted on 09/20/2012 10:04:21 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The original Star Trek series sort of addressed this question in an episode in which Kirk and his bridge team were going to be killed by an alien race because they discovered that humans have a violent past and we have murdered each other.

In that episode, Kirk launches into a soliloquy about laws and religion that provides morals and alternatives to our violent nature.

This was one of the ‘preachy’ episodes that Star Trek got into with social issues instead of being an ordinary, entertaining TV show.

Nonetheless, the message was powerful and still applies. If we DON’T take religion with us when we venture into the stars, that’s more telling about the kind of people we will have become, than the kind of people we are.


15 posted on 09/20/2012 10:08:38 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: OldNavyVet

If you wanted to terraform Mars, and it would take a thousand years, who would be the best organization to manage the project? The Soviet Union? Aztecs? Hitler’s thousand year Reich? Or the Vatican?


16 posted on 09/20/2012 10:09:55 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: GraceG; 2ndDivisionVet

Some clips from Babylon 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap0-uO8h2OU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VvbNqU_HaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXPaGCRngWw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jli3ruqWYlc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zLy7UenSuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XEjrwC07D0


17 posted on 09/20/2012 10:11:29 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“”The only way humanity can survive is if they leave behind the Earth-based religions,” charged Rev. Alvin Carpenter, pastor at First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento.”

Glad to see he’s so positive about his faith. A real evangelist...


18 posted on 09/20/2012 10:35:31 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There are many kinds of Baptists. He is a Space Baptist.


19 posted on 09/20/2012 10:48:40 PM PDT by procrustes (You make Free Republic look bad!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If you watch closely, there are no Muslims or Islam in Star Trek.

That’s because it’s set in the future. . . (evil grin)


20 posted on 09/20/2012 11:03:49 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: DYngbld

HELL YES.. Lets cram all the muzzies into a colander and shoot them to the nearest sun.


21 posted on 09/20/2012 11:05:10 PM PDT by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: Vince Ferrer
If you wanted to terraform Mars, and it would take a thousand years, who would be the best organization to manage the project? The Soviet Union? Aztecs? Hitler’s thousand year Reich? Or the Vatican?

Some random Americans who want to get rich?

And who don't give a rat's ass for NASA, EPA, or any other manifestation of their government?

22 posted on 09/20/2012 11:12:26 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Salgak

I thought the Klingons on the original series were Muslim.


23 posted on 09/20/2012 11:14:20 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
For someone who claims to be a Southern Baptist he has a lot less faith in Jesus Christ and the Gospel than any of the Southern Baptists I know. If we were to begin interstellar travel it would be because Christ wanted it to happen and He would therefore expect us to take our faith in Him with us. Not just with us in a way that has each person involved in the exploration mission being their own final authority, either.

I agree with poster Vince Ferrer, only the Catholic Church has proved that it is capable of undertaking and completing multi-generational projects. This country sure hasn't, we can't even commit to keeping the highways in repair across multiple generations if it means spending money on highways rather than subsidizing some new "benefit" people decide they have a "right" to.

24 posted on 09/20/2012 11:31:34 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

"I'm the Space Pope, and I approve of this message."

25 posted on 09/20/2012 11:32:23 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Wait a minute! Romney doesn't suck? I'm trying to keep up.)
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To: hosepipe

Actually, the incomprehensible size of the observable universe - which expands one light second, every second, in every direction - renders Occam’s Razor almost infinitely meaningless.


26 posted on 09/21/2012 12:02:28 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Allah" isn't a god. It's a mental disorder.)
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To: GraceG

That’s exactly what I told my kid when he was worried about being invaded. :)


27 posted on 09/21/2012 1:38:40 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Salgak

Many of the Eugenics wars took place in Asia, took out all the Muzzies!


28 posted on 09/21/2012 1:52:52 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (We have grieved the Holy Spirit, with our Dark hearts and dark minds turned against God!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The church has the resources, funding and reach to garner support for an interstellar mission,...

Then the church footing the bill gets to decide. It's a no-brainer, folks.

29 posted on 09/21/2012 3:03:41 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Actually, the incomprehensible size of the observable universe - which expands one light second, every second, in every direction - renders Occam’s Razor almost infinitely meaningless.

How?

Unless other parts of the Universe are made of materials, the nature of which are completely at odds with the matter we are aware of, the "size" is utterly irrelevant.

30 posted on 09/21/2012 3:31:54 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Vince Ferrer

None of them could handle it. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars


31 posted on 09/21/2012 6:52:07 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Psycho_Bunny; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Whosoever
[ Actually, the incomprehensible size of the observable universe - which expands one light second, every second, in every direction - renders Occam’s Razor almost infinitely meaningless. ]

To WHOM->?... WHY?... When?.. for what reason?..
Science fiction must appear to be logical to humans...
Reality has no such demands.. needs.. or agenda.. (nothing to prove)..

32 posted on 09/21/2012 12:38:24 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"The only way humanity can survive is if they leave behind the Earth-based religions," charged Rev. Alvin Carpenter, pastor at First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento. "If there's any way to make this fail, bring Earth-bound religions."

Religions, he argued, breed aggression and conflict...

At first I was wondering why he was a minister of an evil "Earth-bound religion." Then I realized he was just doing his job of bringing aggression and conflict.

33 posted on 09/21/2012 12:46:05 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: DustyMoment; wideawake; x; KC_Lion
The original Star Trek series sort of addressed this question in an episode in which Kirk and his bridge team were going to be killed by an alien race because they discovered that humans have a violent past and we have murdered each other. In that episode, Kirk launches into a soliloquy about laws and religion that provides morals and alternatives to our violent nature.

This was one of the ‘preachy’ episodes that Star Trek got into with social issues instead of being an ordinary, entertaining TV show.

Nonetheless, the message was powerful and still applies. If we DON’T take religion with us when we venture into the stars, that’s more telling about the kind of people we will have become, than the kind of people we are.

I disagree completely. The episode you cite is secular humanist to the core, regarding religion--all religions, without any concern as to whether or not one of them is "true"--as a purely utilitarian tool for civilizing peoples. If this is all (or even primarily) that religion is for, then religion is completely false.

The morality of "Star Trek" is groundless humanist morality. It regards man as an end in himself and religion as something to be used in the service of a non-Theistic, purely rational morality, which allegedly exists objectively even if there is no G-d (chas vechalilah!). This is totally wrong, as apart from Divine decree no objective morality does or even can exist.

Perhaps you will remember in the episode where they meet the ancient Greek "gxd" Ap*ll* that Kirk tells him "we have no need of gods." Rodenberry (a staunch secular humanist) probably meant the statement to end there, but apparently someone else at NBC had the writers add "we find the One quite sufficient" to placate the "rubes."

Religion has only one use: to be true. If it isn't true, it is useless, however useful it may be in enforcing purely subjective hang-ups that masquerade as some sort of "objective morality."

34 posted on 09/21/2012 12:56:24 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

St. Leibowitz, pray for us.


35 posted on 09/21/2012 1:14:46 PM PDT by omega4412
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Religion has only one use: to be true. If it isn't true, it is useless, however useful it may be in enforcing purely subjective hang-ups that masquerade as some sort of "objective morality."

That mabye true Z.C. but....

What does G-d need with a starship!?

Jim you don't ask the almighty for his ID!!


36 posted on 09/21/2012 1:21:50 PM PDT by KC_Lion ( Wherever I find myself standing, I forever stand with Israel.)
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To: GraceG
Passing Through Gethsemane
37 posted on 09/21/2012 1:23:38 PM PDT by KC_Lion ( Wherever I find myself standing, I forever stand with Israel.)
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To: papertyger

Are you talking materials as in physics or as in the base elements of life? Your point is unclear.


38 posted on 09/21/2012 7:13:36 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Allah" isn't a god. It's a mental disorder.)
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To: hosepipe

“Science fiction must appear to be logical to humans...
Reality has no such demands.. needs.. or agenda.. (nothing to prove)..”

I don’t know why you used the phrase “science fiction” but with the rest of your statement you’re saying the human constructed concept of logic we know as “Occam’s Razor” is completely irreverent to reality.

You’ve restated my conclusion from a slightly different - and not conflicting - angle.


39 posted on 09/21/2012 9:39:40 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Allah" isn't a god. It's a mental disorder.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Sorry, I’m not getting into a philosophical debate on this one. If Roddenberry was such a secular humanist, why did he reference morality and religion in the same solilioquy that Kirk delivered?

Ya wanna get into all this philosophical horse manure? Have at it - but include me out.


40 posted on 09/21/2012 10:15:01 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: DustyMoment
Will the Antichrist practice "taquia"??
41 posted on 09/21/2012 10:16:51 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Are you talking materials as in physics or as in the base elements of life? Your point is unclear.

I don't think so. Your question, to paraphrase J.C. Watt, is analogous to separating "water" from "wet," or propose a circumstance where two plus two can equal something other than four.

Presumably, a water molecule will behave the same, given equivalent conditions, anywhere in the entire universe. To speculate otherwise is to suggest a condition never before observed for the purpose of opening an already closed question.

42 posted on 09/22/2012 1:39:31 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

“propose a circumstance where two plus two can equal something other than four.”

That’s a valid point but doesn’t apply to what we were talking about.

Extending the analogy, the post I responded to said:

“Probably ( = 4 )”

And my point was:

“You can’t determine the probability of what’s on the right side of ( = ) if you don’t know what’s on - and are incapable of computing - the left side.”


43 posted on 09/22/2012 2:07:59 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Allah" isn't a god. It's a mental disorder.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
That’s a valid point but doesn’t apply to what we were talking about....And my point was: “You can’t determine the probability of what’s on the right side of ( = ) if you don’t know what’s on - and are incapable of computing - the left side.”

Sure you can. Oh I'll grant you the equation can not be solved as such, but that's what higher math is all about: what you do know of the left side can and does conclusively constrains the range of possibilities on the right.

And that applies precisely to what we're talking about, here.

44 posted on 09/22/2012 2:28:34 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger

So, if the left side of the equation has the same number of digits and operators as the Earth has atoms - a number that is never static - and all you know is “8”, you have some way of determining “Probably ( = 4 )”?

Right. Good luck with that.


45 posted on 09/22/2012 3:32:17 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny ("Allah" isn't a god. It's a mental disorder.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny
You are thinking too simplistically. For example....if you are multiplying by a negative, for a give set of values the other side must be negative, for another it must be positive. Add to that, a knowledge that the negative set precludes what you know exists, you know it must be positive.

Then again, if what you're talking about is the common variation of "the gambler's fallacy" which it sounds like you might be, given you're treating earth's atoms as a set of variables, then your presentation of the problem is fundamentally flawed from the outset.

46 posted on 09/22/2012 6:09:45 PM PDT by papertyger
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To: ConservativeMan55
The original question was "Should Humanity Take Religion on Interstellar Space Voyage?

I responded that we should.

If you will recall, religion went into space with our Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Shuttle astronauts.

When man goes into space to seek the home of God, it is appropriate to take Hisword with them as they have and should continue to do.

You want to discuss nonsense?

Be my guest. But, NOT with me. End of discussion.

47 posted on 09/22/2012 10:38:19 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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