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Posted on 02/21/2011 2:03:37 PM PST by Pyro7480
(The following is excerpted from "A Bishop, A Saint: The Life of Saint John Neumann," by Father James J. Galvin, C.SS.R, published by The Neumann Press. 5 January is the feast day of St. John Neumann.)
"[St. John] Neumann [then a priest in upstate New York] had actually gone to the [Protestant] meeting houses with Deacon John Reist....Once inside, the zealous Mennonite brethren had done their best to convince the 'little priest' of the folly of his Catholic way. He had politely listened. They quoted the Scriptures at some length; Neumann heard them out. Finally, Father Neumann began asking seemingly innocent questions, probing under the roots of their belief. Suddenly the whole meeting was in uproar. The 'little priest' was more canny than he seemed. How should they know that this Romish priest had the Bible so well, whole chapters of the book by heart?...Would the 'little priest' be willing, they wheedled, to meet some of their elders in public debate? Neumann had accepted...."
"News of the debate spread fast....More than the expected handful of Mennonites came...that Thursday afternoon. The back room hummed impatience, awaiting the arrival of the 'little priest' But at the moment, Father Neumann was a half hour away -- kneeling in Martin Demmer's farm kitchen with a group of neighbors, reciting the rosary for the usual intention: 'the preservation of the Faith in his parish.'"
"...All told, there were some forty people in the crowded room and as many more in the yard outside when Father Neumann, with an escort of four parishoners, ambled through the picket gate....The four might not have the book learning to argue the fine points of doctrine; but each of them could fell a tree and, if needs be, a man."
"...One of the Mennonite elders took the floor, launching into a sharp attack on the Romish Church: its superstitions, its idolatries, its despotic hold on free men in a free country. The crowd buzzed approval....Now the 'little priest' rose to his feet... [and] smiled at the gathering. Rapidly, he gave a brief account of his visit to the Mennonite meeting house."
"'Gentlemen, I said it last Sunday and I repeat it now. I am open to honest conviction. I will join your church -- if you can prove...here that your creed is worthy of belief.'"
"Phil Hoffmann's [one of the Catholic parishoners] eyes fairly popped from their sockets. But the priest knew what he was about. He had so set the stage that the burden of proof now rested squarely on the Mennonite divines. It would be up to them to adduce convincing evidence of what they believed and taught."
"When they had finished, Neumann stood up again and began to cross-examine. 'May I invite you to tell on what authority you believe what you hold to be true?'"
"'On the authority of the Word of God.' Mr. Enoch Long held up his dog-eared bible."
"'You believe, then that God is author of the Bible?'"
"'Yes: God the Holy Spirit.'"
"'Did God write the Bible in English as well as German?'"
"'Of course. He is its Author in every language and edition.'"
"'Very well.'" Neumann's voice rang clear and confident through the stuffy back room. 'Since the Bible has God, the Holy Spirit, for Author, what he says in your bible, he must likewise say in each and every bible in this room. God cannot contradict himself.'"
"Neumann invited the gathering to open their books to a certain chapter, a certain verse. He invited Mr. Enoch Long to read the passage aloud. He had the Baptist exhorter read the same verses from his own bible. Then, the circuit reader."
"Old Jonathan Eggert [a Protestant], cupping palm to ear, leaned forward. He put on his spectacles, asked for the three books. One by one, he read the chapter and verse; read them again. He shook his head. One version plainly contradicted the other."
"'If your neighbor's version does not agree with your own,' asked Father Neumann, 'how can you be so certain that God is the author? How can you know that your bible is right?' Quietly, the priest sat down."
"In the rear of the room, Mike Deasey [another Catholic parishoner] proudly folded two massive arms on his bottle-green shirt, grinning from ear to ear. But elder Enoch Long had an answer."
"'The mere printed word is not so important. What matters is that one have the Holy Spirit to guide his eye as he reads, to point out the true meaning of Scripture, and show what one must believe.'"
"Father Neumann again stood up. 'You are personally guided by the Holy Spirit?'"
"'His light and his truth are ever within us.'"
"...Is there some way you can prove that for me: that you have the Holy Spirit as your personal guide?' asked Neumann. 'After all, I am open to conviction; but you must furnish proof.'"
"'Why, sir, my whole life is proof!' The elder drew himself up tall, looked round the gathering for approval. 'There was a time, some fifteen years ago, when I was a sinner. I stole my neighbor's cattle....I cheated in many ways. But down at Bavaria, one summer's night, I attended a revival and was converted....I've been a changed man ever since.'"
"Mischief twinkled in Neumann's eye. 'You have just heard your elder admit to several transgressions. Openly he admits to cheating and theft. I wonder did he give back what he robbed, or its value, to the rightful owners.'"
"'No,' came a chorus of voices. 'He never did.'"
"'So you could hardly call his conversion genuine?'"
"'No,' roared a voice from the yard, a vaguely familiar voice. 'He's the same two-faced rogue he ever was.' Filling the open window, there stood Hans Fleischer, the cattle drover."
"Elder Long glared at the window. Mike Deasey slapped his neighbor's shoulder, rocking the room with an impolite guffaw. Abruptly, the debate was over. If the gathering had brought no wholesale conversions to the Catholic Church, it at least put a stop to Catholic leakage in Father Neumann's parish. Catholic farmers were no longer nagged by zealots peddling unwanted tracts and free bibles at the cabin doors."
Catholic ping!
“’how can you be so certain that God is the author? How can you know that your bible is right?’ Quietly, the priest sat down.”
Looks like someone is using the Devil’s own arguments...
“Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say...”
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
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That’s some bit of cherry-picking there.
"'If your neighbor's version does not agree with your own,' asked Father Neumann, 'how can you be so certain that God is the author? How can you know that your bible is right?' Quietly, the priest sat down."
Exactly right.
If catholics agree with us on what? 95+% of doctrinal issues? Why are 95% of the catholic posts at FR always about the other 5%?
“Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife”
Philippians 1:15
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
Those Mennonites could have used the Rev’s Sharpton, Swaggart, and Jeremiah Wright, they would have put old Neuman in his place.
Mennonites are amidst the most radical, and least systematic of Protestants. That’s why, in spite of an Old Testament full of heroic military men, they can rationalize military service as evil—since Jesus said turn the other cheek (which they are ignorant of the context....).
I don’t find it hard to believe that any well educated Roman Catholic, or, Eastern Orthodox, Presbyterian or even a Methodist....would find it hard to debate with Mennonites.
And they wonder why we eschew private interpretation....
Sounds more like a 19th Century version of Bill Clinton asking what the definition of the word “is” is.
Sir or madam, with all due respect, as you haven't been on FR that long, I can safely conclude have an incomplete picture as to the posts here on the Religion Forum. Let me tell you, as someone who has been here for 11+ years, there as many, perhaps more, threads and posts. by Protestant/"Reformed"/non-Catholic Christian posters all "always about the other 5%," but in the other direction, directed against Catholic beliefs.
“One version plainly contradicted the other ...”
What was the verse that they were asked to read, and which were the various versions?
If they can’t be provided, then it’s clear that this is simply an attempt to attack Christ-followers who happen not to be part of the Roman Catholic denomination.
A question is not an argument; it's a question.
Ad hominem branding of a questioner as an agent of the devil does not answer their question, either.
Sir or madam, I have been a reader for a couple of years before I started posting. I have been watching very carefully, and it is not how you say. I would say the ratio of such articles posted is 5:1 or more.
It’s post after post like this from catholics such as yourself; posts that have nothing to do with the core mission of FR, but solely fulfil Phillipians 1:15.
Even if it were how you say, why would you think the right response would be to perpetuate it? Is that what Jesus would have done? Sat at his PC and thought to Himself “I’ll post another hitpiece on protestants, that’ll show ‘em!”.
I can’t imagine it, personally.
Sir or madam, I have been a reader for a couple of years before I started posting. I have been watching very carefully, and it is not how you say. I would say the ratio of such articles posted is 5:1 or more.Ah, no. Not even - but even so, what does it matter to you? What faith community / denomination do you claim?
Tell me how you know the Book of Judith is NOT inspired?
Because real unity can’t happen without that 5% being agreed upon.
I don’t expect unity. There will not be unity. But there can be Christian behavior, and not preaching Christ out of envy and strife.
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