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Mark 12:25 and Marriage in Heaven [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]
Mormonism Research Ministry ^ | Eric Johnson

Posted on 02/08/2011 7:32:30 PM PST by delacoert

"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven." Mark 12:25

In an account given in the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-38), Jesus was approached by members of the Sadducees, the Jewish religious party that did not believe in a bodily resurrection from the dead. In an attempt to trick Him, these leaders presented what appears to be a hypothetical situation involving seven brothers. When the oldest brother died, he left a wife and no children. As was the custom in those days, the next oldest unmarried brother took the woman for his wife. However, the second brother died, as did the third through seventh brothers. Before they died, each of them had married the oldest brother's wife, making her a widow seven times over.

The question they asked Jesus was: "In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? For the seven had her to wife" (Mark 12:23). Jesus chastised his inquisitors, saying in verse 25 that those who die would "neither marry nor are given in marriage."

At face value and as it has been historically interpreted, Jesus appears to be saying that heaven will be much different than life as we know it on earth. We may wonder why Jesus and the biblical writers didn't give more specific details about heaven, but to the question that asked about the afterlife, Jesus told them that they erred "because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God." He repeated his condemnation in verse 27.

While the gift of sex and procreation is a very important part of this earthly life, Jesus clearly taught that neither of these will play a role in the afterlife. The future joy God has in store for the believer is incredibly more magnificent than the temporary pleasure of sexual fulfillment. In addition, there will be no need to procreate in heaven. Thus, while it appears we will be able to recognize fellow believers and family members who are Christian in heaven, there is no indication from the Bible that we will be eternally paired up with a particular mate. Historically, Christians view all believers as part of God's great family rather than millions of smaller groups.

However, Mormon leaders have interpreted this passage quite differently than the historic Christian view. LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote: "What then is the Master Teacher affirming by saying, 'in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven'? He is not denying but limiting the prevailing concept that there will be marrying and giving in marriage in heaven. He is saying that as far as 'they' (the Sadducees) are concerned, that as far as 'they' ('the children of this world') are concerned, the family unit does not and will not continue in the resurrection. Because he does not choose to cast his pearls before swine, and because the point at issue is not marriage but resurrection anyway, Jesus does not here amplify his teaching to explain that there is marrying and giving of marriage in heaven only for those who live the fulness of gospel law-a requirement which excludes worldly people" (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary 1:605,606).

Agreeing and saying that this was not "the Lord's final word on the subject" since the question was a trap set by Jesus" enemies, David H. Yarn, Jr., a BYU professor emeritus of philosophy and religion, said, "The Lord did not say there would be no people in the married state in the resurrection but that there would be no marriages made in the resurrection" (A Sure Foundation, p. 115).

Some Mormon leaders have read their own interpretations into this passage, explaining that this wife had been eternally sealed to the first husband. For instance, LDS Apostle James E. Talmage wrote: "The Lord's meaning was clear, that in the resurrected state there can be no question among the seven brothers as to whose wife for eternity the woman shall be, since all except the first had married her for the duration of mortal life only, and primarily for the purpose of perpetuating in mortality the name and family of the brother who first died." (Jesus the Christ, p.548).

It appears that the only biblical reference to the possibility of marriage continuing after death is Revelation 19:7-9, but this passage is talking about "the marriage supper of the Lamb" where the bride (God's people) is invited. Therefore, it appears that the above Mormon authorities such as McConkie and Talmage have to make their conclusions based on mere presuppositions. While these explanations may sound good to a Mormon audience that cherishes the institution of marriage-but so have Christians for 2,000 years!-the ability to read between the lines of Jesus' teaching does not make a doctrine true.

The Mormon leaders are unable to provide any additional support from the Bible as to the importance of an"everlasting principle" and "eternal covenant" known as celestial marriage. How many people would, upon reading this Synoptic Gospel account in conjunction with the teachings of the Bible, exclaim, "This proves the biblical principle of eternal marriage"? Rather than supporting the view of eternal marriage, then, Jesus explained that the institution of marriage was for this life only and not the life to come. To assume anything more is biblically and exegetically unsound.



TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonrant; inman; lds; mormonism
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1 posted on 02/08/2011 7:32:32 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert

IBPD


2 posted on 02/08/2011 7:36:21 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR to pimp your blog!!!)
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To: delacoert

They have little support for their entire religion. IMHO


3 posted on 02/08/2011 7:40:03 PM PST by doc1019
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To: delacoert

The Resurrection is a whole different deal. When lambs lay down with lions, it doesn’t sound like we’ll get much hunting or barbecuing in. No marriage, to boot.

Used to kind of bum me out.

Gotta trust God. He has something better ahead. Much as I’d like a chance to get things right on this planet, under these conditions, I suspect I had better trust his Word.


4 posted on 02/08/2011 7:46:06 PM PST by One Name
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To: delacoert

The scripture is correct. All marriage contracts will be handled here on earth. There will be no marriages consummated in heaven. Marriage is an earthly ordinance binding through the eternities. The power to seal was given to Peter. “Whatever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”


5 posted on 02/08/2011 7:50:39 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: delacoert

I’m amazed, an open thread about Mormonism and no defenders? I’m amazed.


6 posted on 02/08/2011 7:55:28 PM PST by doc1019
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To: doc1019

PD is either asleep in bed, doesn’t know this thread exists right now, or, can’t answer it until he check with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.


7 posted on 02/08/2011 8:10:23 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: ReverendJames

He is aware, just not able to defend his perverse religion without the shield of a caucused thread.


8 posted on 02/08/2011 8:16:07 PM PST by doc1019
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To: doc1019

I’m sure he’ll come back with paragraph after paragraph of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints nonsense in rebuttal. It’s bury you in wordage. Bottom line is you always come back with “Who Do You Say Jesus Is?” as in “Who do you say I am?” They condemn themselves with their own words.


9 posted on 02/08/2011 8:21:27 PM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Painter Or A Liberal Can Change Black To White)
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To: ReverendJames

AMEN!


10 posted on 02/08/2011 8:23:04 PM PST by doc1019
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To: delacoert
The Mormon leaders are unable to provide any additional support from the Bible as to the importance of an"everlasting principle" and "eternal covenant" known as celestial marriage.

Any additional? Like that was support for their position? Seems to me that zero + zero still equals zero.

11 posted on 02/08/2011 8:46:09 PM PST by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: CommerceComet

That pretty well sums it up. (Sorry, couldn't resist a math pun.)

12 posted on 02/08/2011 8:49:43 PM PST by delacoert
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To: delacoert
Celestial marriage is required for man's salvation according to mormon doctrine. They make it a "requirement" or in this case; an "ordinance" since the "sealing" is performed in a mormon temple.

For those who don't know, the "Celestial Kingdom" is where God and Jesus dwell, only those who have completed all of the "ordinances" and have been deemed "worthy" will be allowed to dwell with God, the rest get other "kingdoms" to dwell in. Outside the presence of God.

Here we have quote from an “apostle of the lord”, but we’ll be told it’s only “his opinion” since it’s in the JOD and those are “supposedly supposed to be ignored”, but it’s valuable insight into what the leaders of the mormon church believe and teach, regardless of whether the mormons want to claim it as “doctrine”. But wait, don’t mormon apostles represent and speak on behalf of the mormon church? Don’t they use the JOD’s as references in their General Conference talks to the faithful?

Now, before anyone argues that the JoD are to be discounted as just the “opinions of men”, read this…

"The Journal of Discourses is a vehicle of doctrine, counsel, and instruction to ALL people, but especially to the Saints. It follows then, then, [sic] that each successive volume is more and more valuable as the Church increases in numbers and importance in the earth." Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. iii (1867) " — Brigham Young

LDS Apostle Erastus Snow preached the following on Sunday, Oct. 4, 1857:

" Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands?... Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? "What!—my husband to be my lord?" I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never got into the celestial kingdom [during the temple ceremony] without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant. “(Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 291)

Sorry ladies, without that "ordinance", nope, no way, it ain't gonna happen.

I wouldn’t be so sure….

”But what of the many mature members of the Church who are not married? Through no failing of their own, they deal with the trials of life alone. Be we all reminded that, in the Lord’s own way and time, no blessings will be withheld from His faithful Saints. The Lord will judge and reward each individual according to heartfelt desire as well as deed.

Celestial marriage

Ahh, but wait, there’s another way;

After both of you die, and your errant spouse gets necrobaptized, your “mormon relatives” [if you have any] can seal you to him by “proxy”. Then your errant spouse will have “the chance” in the period between death and resurrection to accept or reject the ordinances. [Hmm, so if I’m in the spirit prison and a spirit missionary comes down and says, “hey, we baptized you, endowed you and sealed you to your wife. Do you accept or reject?” What do you think I’m going to do?]

Either way, if you've been faithful, you will have been sealed and will be able to receive the lowest degree of celestial glory. Huh? So now we have “degrees of glory” within the celestial kingdom. What are the three degrees of glory in the celestial kingdom? Oh my. My head is starting to hurt from trying to keep all of this straight. I thought the “straight and narrow” was just that.

But here’s something that I find quite conflicting.

All children sealed to parents in the holy temples will inherit the celestial kingdom regardless to their degree of compliance with the principles of the gospel. As reported by Elder Orson F. Whitney—

“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared-and he never taught more comforting doctrine-that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God” (Elder Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, April 1929, Third Day Morning Meeting, p.110).

Really? A child born to endowed, sealed parents, regardless of their degree of compliance with the principles of the gospel is GUARANTEED the celestial kingdom. Just wow! How "convenient" is that?

There is no surety in mormonism as it relates to personal exaltation. Keyword there is "personal". In mormonism, it's about working things for PERSONAL glory, not God's glory. You are working to ensure your “personal” exaltation, which is supposed to bring glory to God, but I don’t see how that works if what you’re doing is essentially “banking” ordinances and works to get the balance sheet in your favor.

If you don't join, but are otherwise a good Christian or person, who did good but did not accept Mormonism, terrestrial kingdom for you. Many members of the mormon church, who were not as dedicated as they could have been, will also go the terrestial.

The rest of us [sons of perdition, apostates, evil doers, etc.] we get the telestial or, as in my case, OUTER DARKNESS!

But you know what the Bible says about all of this?

Simply this; Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in HEAVEN.

So all of those “requirements” the mormons want you to meet in order to attain the celestial kingdom and to be able to dwell with God are superfluous. God has already said you will not be married in heaven.

Seriously, did Constantine and the evil ne’er do wells of the Council of Nicea remove all of that confusing mormon stuff and replace it with something so simple to trick us? That’s what the mormons claim and want us to believe.

They want you to believe that you "must" be married in the temple in order to gain exaltation [aka; salvation] and the bonus is you get to dwell with God and Jesus. The two are inseparable and for those mormons who don't make it, tough.

13 posted on 02/08/2011 8:49:43 PM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: SZonian

A petty plain question that deserves reflection and answer. Marriage was always foundational. The Lord's insights on marriage - weddings and all - pretty key.

14 posted on 02/08/2011 9:40:06 PM PST by delacoert
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To: doc1019

Didn’t “Goreknowshowtocheat” kinda try to refute it in his post about things that are “bound in earth are bound in heaven” apologetic, throwing meaning to marriage being continued, as he says, in “everlasting”? If Jesus said what the NT says he said, he was pretty darn clear on the marriage in heaven thing, as he said they are “neither married or given in marriage”.


15 posted on 02/08/2011 10:22:36 PM PST by hulagirl (Mother Theresa was right)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat
I laughed out loud when I read your reply, I honestly thought you were trying to be funny.

Matthew 16:19 King James Bible

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

New International Version

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Context: Matthew 16:17-19 King James Bible

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The Words of Jesus here have nothing to do with marriage after death.

16 posted on 02/09/2011 8:34:27 AM PST by svcw (God doesn't show up in our time, but He shows up on time)
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To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


17 posted on 02/09/2011 11:08:19 AM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: svcw

Glad somebody is a prophet here. When did you get your call? You know exactly what Jesus meant in this verse or all? You laughed? Wow. You are really a prophet then?


18 posted on 02/09/2011 12:37:59 PM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat

More of a prophet than Joe Smith...

No great achievement though...


19 posted on 02/09/2011 12:43:40 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat
You do get that I posted from the Bible (two translations), not only the versus you failed to reference but the entire context. If that makes me a prophet, so be it.
20 posted on 02/09/2011 1:13:29 PM PST by svcw (God doesn't show up in our time, but He shows up on time)
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