Posted on 12/03/2010 4:14:50 PM PST by bibletruth
1 Timothy 2:5 ...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
There is NO debate here: God's Word clearly points out who the mediator is between God and men: i.e., Christ Jesus
If you believe in God's Word, who is Christ Jesus: The Word of God, then 1 Timothy 2:5 will be easily be understood as Christ the mediator.
And then you will understand that Biblically, that that mediator is NOT the vicar of Christ, i.e., the Catholic vicar of Christ in which his supreme headship is over the entire church on earth.
Nor is that mediator Mary as Mediatrix due to Mary's cooperation in the redemption through and under her Son. Mediatrix in itself could refer to either the objective redemption (the once-for-all earning a title to grace for all men), to the subjective redemption (the distribution of this grace to individual men).
But what does God's Word in the Bible say, is not this more simple to understand: 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:15 ...much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, WHICH IS BY ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST, hath abounded unto many.
If you believe in God's Word, then this Scripture clearly says: The gift by grace, WHICH IS BY ONE MAN, JESUS CHRIST. It does not say: The gift by grace, WHICH IS BY TWO, JESUS CHRIST and MARY
Furthermore: Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: This Grace is clearly seen in the Bible as distributed of the Lord Jesus Christ for those who are saved.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
These distributions of God's Grace are clearly seen in the Bible, without mixture, as being distributed solely BY and OF the Lord Jesus Christ for those who are saved.
All these Scripture truths will make perfect sense to those who believe in God's Word, who is Christ Jesus: THE Word of God. Take time to study these Scriptures. In fact, study them before you make a railing post of opposition, otherwise, it is evident that "hearing they hear not, neither do they understand" (Matthew 13:13)
A friend told me that if Roman Catholics understood what the office of "mediator" really is, they would understand better how wrong it is to say Mary or any saint is a "mediator between God and men."
And so Christians are called to kneel to none but Christ.
"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth"
Now, as a non-Catholic I have a problem theologically with this in the manner they choose (especially asking for intercession from the Saints and Mary who have already passed), however, I will not bear false witness and falsely proclaim that Catholics are describing this mediation as any sort of replacement or equality to Christ or His role.
Thanks for the anti-Catholic rant. /s
Biblically speaking, that is definitely an equality to Christ role on earth. Based upon Colossians:
Colossians 1:18 And he [CHRIST] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
This posting is more preeminence focused on Christ and more of a pro-CHRIST as Mediator and Head of the Church Bible disposition, rather than a rant... I expect rants from those that are in opposition to these Bible truths.
I’m sure you think it was.
Have you ever prayed for another person?
What's the difference between asking Mary to pray for you in time of need or any other friend or acquaintance?
I am fairly new in my walk with Christ but in my understanding the difference is that Mary is dead whereas friends and acquaintances are alive. I would not ask my deceased grandmother to pray for me either.
The assumption that those, besides the Holy Trinity, now residing in Heaven can even hear our prayers.
Just as I posted regarding the prayers of intercession, it is not correct to say Catholics view the Pope as the same role or a replacement role as Christ. All throughout the New Testament, there is instructions and discussion about the role of leaders of the Church. For example, 1 Timothy 3:1-2 or Titus 1:7,9.
I do have, as with the other issue brought up in the prior post, the specific authority given to the Pope and the power given- however, those same complaints can be made of church leaders of all denominations. I know many a Baptist, Non-Denominational, Lutheran, you name it, pastor who exerts the same ‘spiritual’ control over his flock, claiming more authority than a servant or ‘bishop’ should have.
Maybe, instead of bearing false witness as to what ‘the other’ believes, we should instead be a living witness to the attributes to what we believe?
That is a fair assumption and one that does separate Protestants from Catholics. However, I think most will agree the OP takes it one step too far (and a false claim we see often) that Catholics consider Mary or the Saints a ‘replacement’ or equal to Christ.
More street corner screeching/preaching from the anti-Catholic bigots on FR. A sad way to greet the New Year.
This posting is more preeminence focused on Christ and more of a pro-CHRIST as Mediator and Head of the Church Bible disposition, rather than a rant...No, it is a bigoted rant. Nothing more.
Meet the new year, same as the old year:(
Exactly where in Catholic doctrine does it say that there is any other way to God than through Jesus Christ and Him crucified, resurrected and gloriously sitting at the right hand of the Father?
Being head of the Church on earth makes the Pope “equal” to Christ??? The only Catholics who believe that are in mental hospitals.
Why don’t you stop lying about the Catholic Church? Do you think God is pleased with lies?
Absolutely true.
Another truth is that God alone is the Judge of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb 4:12)
It's always been amazing to me that while in His own agony, Jesus could hear the faith of the thief on the cross beside Him, know the sincerity in his heart and proclaim his salvation. Not another living person would have believed him to be 'saved'.
I think this is an example of just how little doctrine a person needs to believe in order to receive God's grace and gift.
While Christians can understand that the doctrine of a particular group is error laden, multitudes who fellowship with them may believe enough of the truth for salvation but have not paid close enough attention to the other teachings sufficiently to pollute their faith and cancel out the Grace of God extended to them.
I think in this regard Christians should be careful to not be so disagreeably insistent on everyone eating meat that has been offered to idols only to cause their brother to sin. I Corinthians 8:1-13. While their doctrine is correct it is not purity of doctrine that saves and a Pharisaical attitude can turn them against Christ.
What an embarrassment if when Christ asks them why they didn't accept Him when they were given a chance they say I didn't want to be like "Joe the jerk Christian" who said I had to do this and believe that and become just like him. I didn't want to have to become a jerk to be a Christian."
Its God's grace through faith. The Pharisaical spirit will pollute God's grace and make purity of doctrine necessary for salvation. The Jesus lead spirit will tell the story, let the Holy Spirit convict and convince and demonstrate a loving life.
Christian apologetics is a useful tool when employed with the Spirit of love rather than the I'm right and your wrong because... spirit of the Pharisee.
I think the two biggest surprises in heaven will be:
1-The people who aren't there that we thought would be and
2-The people who are there that we thought wouldn't be.
Must be lonely for you
Just so you know:
The Catholic Church has repeatedly rejected the title of “Mediatrix” for the Blessed Virgin Mary and any saint.
It does appear in unapproved literature by several non-heretical Catholic groups; the reasoning is that Mary, as all saints do, prays for us on our behalf. Thus, they mediate. However, Mary prays to Christ, the Son, for his mediation on our behalf to the father; she does not pray instead of us, she prays with us.
Christ’s mediation is different. He does not atone with us, he atones for us. Our participation in any atonement is not salvific, Thus, his mediation is of a different nature than any mediation any saint performs; the mediation of saints cannot rescue us from Hell, as did the mediation of Christ.
Thus, in the sense that Christ mediates for us, he alone mediates for us, and it is confusing, therefore, to call anyone else “mediator” or “mediatrix.”
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