Question re Qara'im ("Karaites"), Tzadduqim ("Sadducees") and Kutim ("Samaritans")

Self | 7/22/'08 | Zionist Conspirator

[Zionist Conspirator]

Can anyone out there enlighten me as to just what constitutes the differences among the Karaites, Sadducees, and Samaritans? Each is supposedly a "more ancient," "more authentic" form of Judaism (chas veshalom!) which rejects the Oral Torah and the authority of the Rabbinate, so why aren't they all the same thing?

Does anyone out there have any insights on this topic?

[Zionist Conspirator]

Can you answer these questions, Alouette? Do you know anyone who can?

[wideawake]

My understanding:

The Sadduccees emerged around 150 BC as a group who felt that the Temple service and the Torah were the purest essence of Judaism and that the focus on non-Torah texts and mystical revelations and the afterlife were impractical superstitions that derogated from the central importance of the Temple sacrifices, here and now, for Jewish life. When the Temple was destroyed, they evaporated.

The Karaites are a 700 AD phenomenon - Jews who, under the Muslims, adopted a more Sunni attitude toward the Torah and basically replicated in Judaism a style of life better suited to Sharia life.

The Samaritans are a group who may have some Jewish blood who came to Samaria in 700 or so BC to worship at Mount Gerizim (Nablus) following a newfangled Northern Kingdom view of Judaism.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Those are the basics which I know, widey. But what distinguishes the three? Why isn't their philosophy given a single name instead of three separate ones?

What distinguishes each from the other two?

[wideawake]

I would say that the Sadduccees believe that there is no afterlife of any value, that the only thing that matters is punctiliously observing the Torah as written - for which you will eventually be richly rewarded in this life.

I would say that the Karaites believe that there is indeed an afterlife and that you will be rewarded in it for generally observing the Torah as written without asking too many questions.

I would say that the Samaritans follow the Karaites, except that they have a different Torah text with different laws and a different temple.

I would point out that both Sadduccees and Karaites would believe that the God of the Torah is the only God and that the gods of the nations are just demons or lesser beings without any divinity.

The Samaritans on the other hand are henotheists, believing that the god of their Torah is their god and not that of others.

[Petronski]

Maybe this will help, I don’t know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite_Judaism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan

[Phinneous]

Ladies and gentlemen, one must take note of what was taught to me in seminary, the Saducees were very sad, you see....

[Alouette]

Samaritans (Cutheans) are the people who were resettled in Samaria by Sancheriv after the Northern Kingdom (the "Ten Tribes) were defeated and exiled. Oroginally they were idolators who worshipped some birdlike image. They accepted a form of worship similar to that of the Northern Kingdom after it split from Jerusalem.

Sadducees (Tzadukim) are a sect that was formed by Alexander Yannai, of the Hashmonean dynasty. They rejected rabbinical law after Yannai got into many scrapes with the rabbis over his rulership of Judea. The Hashmoneans, being Cohanim, were not supposed to be become rulers.

Karaites are a sect that was founded at about the same time as Islam (7th Century), rejecting rabbinical law and attempting to resurrect the defunct Sadducean sect.

[Zionist Conspirator]

So the Qara'im are basically the Tzadduqim reborn? Okay; that answers that question.

However, the Qara'im believe in an afterlife and the Tzadduqim did not, did they?

Thank you for the information.

[Alouette]

I am really not that familiar with the differences in belief between the Tzudukim and the Karaites. The Tzudukim were involved with Temple activities, the Karaites didn’t come along until long after the Temple was gone, that could explain some of the differences.

[vladimir998]

I always thought it was interesting that the Nazis did NOT consider the Karaites ethnically/racially Jews and so did not commit genocide against them.

[Zionist Conspirator]

I always thought it was interesting that the Nazis did NOT consider the Karaites ethnically/racially Jews and so did not commit genocide against them.

I'm no expert in this matter, but I believe the communities you are referring to are Turkish converts to "Karaism" who were patronized by the Tzars (who considered Rabbanite Jews as "not true Israelites," of course) rather than the ancient Jewish Karaites.

[ChicagoHebrew]

The Samaritans date to the First Temple era. They accept only through the Book of Joshua, and reject the rest of Tanakh (and thus, reject the Davidic dynasty and the sanctity of Jerusalem). Their origins are somewhat debated. According to the Rabbis, they are the descendants of Cuthites moved into Israel by the Assyrians after the fall of the Northern Kingdom, who converted to a mix of Judaism and paganism after God sent a plague of lions. According to the Samaritans, they are the descendants of the common people of the Northern Kingdom, who weren't carried off into exile. Overwhelmingly, historians and the genetic evidence supports the Samaritans' claims. So they are Israelites, but not Jews (i.e, descendants of the tribes that did not align with Yehudah). Their Torah is also slightly different -- largely due to references concerning the sanctity of Mt. Gezerim in Nablus, which is their holy mountain.

The Sadduccees were the priestly class of the late Second Temple period. It's unclear exactly what they believed, as pretty much everything we know about them comes from their opponents (Rabbinate Jews and Christians). It appears, however, that they did not accept most of the Oral Law and, in particular, rejected resurrection of the dead. After the fall of the Second Temple, they largely died out, but there is some evidence that a few small groups survived into the middle ages, and eventually merged with the growing Karaite movement.

The Karaites started around the year 700 c.e. Although the Rabbis like to claim that they are strict textualists who ignore all oral tradition, this isn't exactly accurate. IN reality, the Karaites have their own oral tradition and associated Halacha. For example, the Karaites don't wear tefillin, because they interpret the mitzvot to place a sign upon your arm and symbols between your eyes as metaphorical. But, by and large, Karaites reject the Talmud -- particularly when rabbinic rulings appear to overrule what they consider to be the plain meaning of the Torah. For example, Karaites do not rely on the fixed calender created by the Sanhedrin, and instead wait for the sighting of the new moon before declaring a new month, and wait for the ripening of barley before declaring Nissan.

It is interesting to note that, by rejecting the rabbinic rulings and oral traditions in the Talmud, the Karaites created a religion much stricter than Rabbinic Judaism. For example, Karaites won't use a pre-existing fire on Shabbat. Meaning not only no chulen/hamin, but also that they froze to death in the winter in places like Russia. . . There are, however, a few areas where Karaites are more lenient -- Karaites have no problem with chicken parmesan, for example.

Unlike (apparently) the Sadduccees, the Karaites do generally believe in resurrection of the dead. And unlike the Samaritans, the Karaites accept the whole Tanakh, consider Jerusalem sacred, await the restoration of the Davidic monarchy, and identify as Jews.

[ChicagoHebrew]

You're both right. The Nazis considered all Karaites non-Jews, and didn't persecute them. But it's also true that the vast majority of Karaites in Europe were descendants of Turkish converts, not ancient Jewish Karaites (who were largely centered in Egypt).

Another interesting (if sad) fact -- one of the reasons why the Spanish & Portuguese community in Amsterdam had such a high mortality rate in the Shoah is that, until shortly before they were sent on the trains, the Nazis didn't consider them Jews either, and exempted them from the Nuremburg Laws. Apparently the Nazis believed (contrary to all evidence) that the Sephardim in the Netherlands descended from Portuguese converts, and thus weren't racially Jewish. So, sadly, most Sephardim barely made any effort to escape. . .

[Zionist Conspirator]

Thanks CH. Do you know if the Tzadduqim accepted the whole TaNa”KH or only the Torah?

[ChicagoHebrew]

Thanks CH. Do you know if the Tzadduqim accepted the whole TaNa”KH or only the Torah?

It's my understanding that they accepted the whole Tanakh. Although we don't really have anything from the Tzadduqim themselves, their opponents (i.e., the Rabbis and Christians) certainly never accuse them of not accepting the whole Tanakh. So that, in my mind, is pretty good evidence that they did.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Thanks again!