Posted on 01/12/2006 7:42:57 AM PST by Alouette
After all the oddball stuff we were told yesterday, words absolutely fail me today. Another thread was just posted on the same subject here:
This affected me. How could I have overlooked it? One definition of Devil is "subordinate to evil".
But now another question arises: Have we not all been, at one time, subordinate to evil? God needed Judas for His plan as I mentioned, and He also needed the King of Egypt - whose "heart He hardened".
God is truly the potter and we are all His clay, in spite of our beliefs. I feel so sorry for Judas. I wonder, does my empathy make excuses for Judas?
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But now another question arises: Have we not all been, at one time, subordinate to evil?
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Why would Jesus then say that it would have been better for Judas to have never been born ?
If our being at one time or another, subordinate to evil, would it warrant a serious statement that says, it would have been better for us to have never been born ?
I do not believe it is up to any mere man to rehab or forgive anyone, of course. But many Catholics need the Vatican for guidance - not necessarily a good thing. My interest in the subject however, bypassed Vatican thought. The Judas "situation" affects me in a most personal way.
Especially when over the centuries there have been so many Catholics who have been made to feel guilt over the sin and exclusion from heaven (not to mention being denied burial in hallowed ground) of their loved ones who committed suicide ... without even throwing in the betrayal of Jesus. Are they all going to be rehabbed and re-buried too?
That most personal way being a beloved brother who committed suicide. It was not him. I must believe that. How could God condemn someone who is not themselves in the depths of despair?
Ironically, wasn't Judas be the only apostle who died Jewish .... and not Catholic?
I'm not sure. I've always believed that "religion" was mans invention.
Absolutely amazing. Just when I think nothing more will surprise me....
More like the London Times' fanciful ideas.
You're surprised that the MSM would come up with a goofball story about the church? (Reality: you should be surprised when they don't.) Or are you surprised that they can (maybe) find a goofball Catholic cleric to say something nutty? (Reality: there are plenty of goofball Catholic clerics -- whether or not this man is one of them.)
I love how they equate (what may be) one Monsignor's kooky idea with "the Vatican says".
At this rate, in a few years we'll be reading:
VATICAN SAYS MOHAMMED THE ONLY PROPHET, KORAN INSPIRED
... Mohammed Al-Trop, a maintenance worker installing a wiring upgrade at St. Peter's Basilica, said that he believed Mohammed was a prophet and the Koran was inspired. This new Vatican policy, which informed sources expect to be confirmed by the Pope within the next few weeks, comes on the wake of ...
Really wondering about the thesis here.
This idea supposedly "gaining ground in the Vatican" was condemned by the Council of Trent. Sorry about that, London Times.
It answers much, and raises more questions for some, as Augustine makes clear the case of the Sacramental nature of the Last Supper, observed then and now by Catholics. As to Xenia's objection to spiritual excercises, naturally we are called to examine our consciences, lest we should stray from the Faith, as John Chyrsostom, another early Christian Father makes the point in this passage:http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230612.htm
Not the least of which makes the case that 1 TIMOTHY iv. 1--3 emphatically indicates we are not once saved always saved. V's wife.
St. Judas Iscariot protect us.
since when are we a "victim" of our own sin??
"After all the oddball stuff we were told yesterday"
What oddball stuff?
(inquiring minds...)
I agree with your point about suicide but when you say you believe Judas was forgiven.
How do you know he hung himself out of remorse rather than fear?
I'm not remembering the scripture related to Judas death at the moment.
Welcome to Fr.
ROTFL! Between you and me, I'm sure we can figure out what he's the "patron saint" of.
The patron Saint of silversmiths.
Or perhaps the patron saint of snitches.
Good question.
In the case of Judas, If I were Judas, and had betrayed Gods only Son..I would truly wish I had never been born. Indeed, for my own self, it would be better if I had not been born. Serious indeed. Horrific in human terms.
The burden of betraying God would be too great to bear for any human. What does one do with such a burden?
God creates us. God uses us for His own pleasure, which is right and fair. Judas was necessary for Gods plan to be fulfilled-he HAD to be born. Back to the "potter and the clay" I guess.
Perhaps faith is what Judas lacked. Without faith, there is no hope of salvation.
I feel so...judgemental.
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St. Judas Iscariot protect us
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I thought we already had a St. Judas ? ( the patron saint of desperate cases ).
You're too sensitive to the Catholic Church. I have no doubt there will be sensitive Protestants jumping on board this one as well. Trouble is identifying them. Having 30,000+ denominations has its advantages. :O)
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