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To: EequalsMC2

<<<<
But now another question arises: Have we not all been, at one time, subordinate to evil?
>>>>>

Why would Jesus then say that it would have been better for Judas to have never been born ?

If our being at one time or another, subordinate to evil, would it warrant a serious statement that says, it would have been better for us to have never been born ?


23 posted on 01/12/2006 9:06:19 AM PST by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot
If our being at one time or another, subordinate to evil, would it warrant a serious statement that says, it would have been better for us to have never been born ?

Good question.

In the case of Judas, If I were Judas, and had betrayed Gods only Son..I would truly wish I had never been born. Indeed, for my own self, it would be better if I had not been born. Serious indeed. Horrific in human terms.

The burden of betraying God would be too great to bear for any human. What does one do with such a burden?

God creates us. God uses us for His own pleasure, which is right and fair. Judas was necessary for Gods plan to be fulfilled-he HAD to be born. Back to the "potter and the clay" I guess.

Perhaps faith is what Judas lacked. Without faith, there is no hope of salvation.

I feel so...judgemental.

38 posted on 01/12/2006 9:29:27 AM PST by EequalsMC2
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To: SirLinksalot

Catholic perspective. Funny how, while it's true that the Church has never defined that any particular person is in Hell, there is solid scriptural evidence for only one man in the NT to be "extremely likely" to be there. That man is Judas Iscariot. Matthew 26:24-25 says: "'The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.' Judas, who betrayed him, said, 'Is it I, Master?' He said to him, 'You have said so.'"

Even if Judas had to spend a bazillion years in Purgatory, it would have been worth it for him to be born regardless, as the eternity of Heaven thereafter would make the stay in Purgatory a worthwhile means to an indescribably wonderful end. The fact that Jesus, knowing such a thing, still says that it would have been "better if he had not been born," certainly makes the prospect of Judas' salvation look inconceivably "remote." His "rehabilitation," in light of the fact that he is singled-out as the sole person explicitly named in the New Testament who is virtually certain to be in Hell, is an excercise in stupidity. I can't believe the Vatican would be so silly as to waste time on such a project. I'm *hoping* this was bobbled by the Times (not too hard to suppose!), or wherever they got it from, and thus it bears little resemblance to fact.


58 posted on 01/12/2006 11:01:24 AM PST by magisterium
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To: SirLinksalot
Why would Jesus then say that it would have been better for Judas to have never been born ?

Because Judas was doomed to suffer for the sins he was to commit. But they were also actions necessary for the prophecies to be fulfilled and his role was mandated by God. Judas suffered the same fate all sinners face. He was separated from communion with God.

Did God decree that separation? Did Jesus?

My reading of the Scriptures is that God, through the proof in the life of Jesus, forgives ALL sins. All that is required is belief in Jesus and true contrition. If Judas repented his actions and believed in Jesus then he is now sitting with Jesus in Heaven.

My belief is that there is no time limit on accepting God's message delivered through Jesus' life. Even after we die, if we accept God's love, which He has proven through the sacrifice of His Son, we are forgiven, regardless of our sins. We don't have to convince Him. We have to convince US!

The message of Jesus is that anyone will be forgiven, even Judas. That is fundamental. Whether Judas has learned that lesson is an entirely separate question and one that we won't be able to answer till we are in no position to tell anyone else.

96 posted on 01/12/2006 1:53:03 PM PST by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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