Didn't you read the threads where it was pointed out only about a dozen people were executed in the entire Spanish Inquisition and that it was
a very very good thing that they were killed?
Posted on 01/12/2006 7:42:57 AM PST by Alouette
Didn't you read the threads where it was pointed out only about a dozen people were executed in the entire Spanish Inquisition and that it was
a very very good thing that they were killed?
This reminds me of the time a couple years back when the press was reporting that John Paul the Great was going to infallibly declare that Mary is physically present in the Eucharist.
Yet another unfounded slap at the Church.
I am very sorry to read about your brother.
Have you ever read this? I shared it with people who are grieving from suicide and most seem to find it helpful. Much more enlightened Catholic thinking than in the dark past.
"Too Bruised to Touch"
http://www.thegiftofkeith.org/info/grieving/how_God_meets.html
The Lord intended that there be a collective body on earth to carry forward His word and provide hands for His works. This is the church, and it was founded on the Apostle Peter, the Rock. Hence my comment about the apostles, except for Judas, being the first Catholics.
That's why I don't see the church as a manmade phenonomenon. Though mankind, as the caretaker of the church, has not done a very good job of building an institution and keeping the collective oriented the way the Lord seemed to intend. Maybe that's where "religion" gets its bad reputation from the disaffected.
Whether or not Judas was qualified, is now a matter of further thought for me.
But suicide in general, there may be other answers. The one truth is that "we will find out".
If I am chosen to be among those who finally understand the truth, I must trust that my brothers suicide and the outcome, will be revealed as well.
All is a matter of faith.
Sigh......
You are right, nothing suprises me anymore.
Wrong. Sorry. The Church doesn't claim to have a "single, authortitative interpretation of Scripture". The Church claims to be the one, authoritative "interpreter" of Scripture. Catholics are not hogtied by fundamentalist exegesis (one and only ONE explanation for every single verse in the Bible). There are relatively few excerpts from Scripture which the Church authoritatively interprets. For example, the actual existence of Adam and Eve, and the Lord's teaching on the Holy Eucharist in John, Ch. 6, to name a couple. Biblical interpretation is still unfolding, but the teachings of the faith (which is the marriage of Scripture and "tradition") are unmoved. ;-)
And yes, the whackos are extremely easy to locate, but since you're not actually attending a Catholic church, how would you know what to look for? Certain dioceses are more liberal than others (some extremely liberal) but that's still too broad a stroke to paint with. You're not stuck with the parish in which you live.
Are those anything like the posts that explain that the Catholics executed under Elizabeth I and James I and Cromwell were just traitors who got what they deserved, and besides, England had a right to protect herself against the Papist interlopers?
Catholic revisionism = Nazi revisionism = Turkey's death march revisionism. When the instigator declares themselves to be innocent, it just doesn't carry any weight.
It would be nice if the FR Catholics would get their stories straight. If the Protestants' "fundamentalist exegesis" comes up with "one and only ONE explanation for every single verse in the Bible", why then are Protestants simultaneously accused of using the YOPIOS method, supposedly leading to 30,000 denominations who can't agree on what the Bible says? Thanks for confirming that we Protestants are far more unified in our beliefs than we are given credit for.
The Church doesn't claim to have a "single, authoritative interpretation of Scripture". The Church claims to be the one, authoritative "interpreter" of Scripture....There are relatively few excerpts from Scripture which the Church authoritatively interprets....Biblical interpretation is still unfolding, but the teachings of the faith (which is the marriage of Scripture and "tradition") are unmoved.
"Unmoved" teaching without prior interpretation. Interesting.
I tend to think Gods judgment is of the heart, indeed, the true intent of a person.
Just to clarify the term "intent" and "heart".
I believe we must know why we are saved. Its not only an emotional feeling of the heart.
Sin deserves punishment, Jesus has stepped in and provided the sacrifice for us, if you/anyone repents of their sins, realizes that God has granted grace to those that believe in the gift his son is...you to will be saved.
Have they forgotten he was also a theif and embezzler? John 12:4 - 6 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
This thread wasn't even posted by a Catholic.
Politicians?
Would this mean that Judas being a nice guy could be one interpretation?
The problem is, every Protestant denomination thinks it has the only valid interpretation. Thus, either the Holy Spirit has 30,000 truths to impart or 30,000 denominations are being fooled. The Church, again, lives by the written AND the living Word, which is revealed in the sacraments. Therein lies the difference.
The Catholic Church considers Scripture pertinent to the audience it was written for at the time it was written, as well as today, as well as the future. Revelation is the most obvious example. There's more than one interpretation of what "666" signifies. And each one is correct. There's more than one interpretation for the seven churches and the seven trumpets and so on. The Apocalyptic writing genre of the time served to assist the persecuted Christians of that day, and speaks to a wide-ranging Truth concerning the condition of humanity following the fall of Adam and the Second Coming of Christ, as well as the eternal battle over souls going on right now in Heaven. Another example, the Church does not believe that the world was created in seven, 24-hour days, but the story of Creation is still a mystery which is still being revealed to mankind, not discounting the impact of scientific thought on the matter of the origin of the universe. There are certain matters which have not been spoken of definitively by the Church. For example, "limbo", which was a supposition but never considered a concrete truth. Thus, the recent news that "limbo" was no longer being considered a valid supposition by the Church, was not very controversial for Catholics.
The root of Christianity is in the Catholic Church. All of these thousands of branches are progressively further from the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit to the bride of Christ. If ALL Protestants agreed on Biblical interpretation there wouldn't be 30,000 denominations. Since all Protestants believe they're being given the interpretation by the Holy Spirit, doesn't this strike you as grossly absurd?
The teachings are still unmoved, whether interpretation is continuing or definitive. The Creed will never change and interpretation of the Bible will never contradict it. The canon of the Bible will never change, either. Protestants changed both and expect that they have been Divinely guided. All 30,000 flavors.
Yes Wallcrawlr, you are perfectly right.
In regards to the "unforgivable" sin of suicide, however, it may be that the person is too weak or forlorn to believe forgiveness could ever be offered.
Some say that not acknowledging Gods words of forgiveness (not believing one is worthy) is a sin unto itself, worthy of condemnation.
How does a person pay for the sin of suicide? I do not know. Perhaps he pays as he considers his actions, and maybe he pays as he accepts the consequence of hell?
In the realm of possibility, it could be. The Church declares no one to have been condemned, only the sainted have had their eternal fates expressed by the Church.
Is it likely? Who can say? Whatever it is, it's not pertinent to salvation to know one way or the other.
Or perhaps the real sin here is the disbelief that it was already paid for, in full, on the Cross.
News to me. But to paraphrase one of your earlier answers, "since you're not actually attending a Protestant church, how would you know what every one believes?"
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