Posted on 11/05/2005 7:42:41 PM PST by Clay+Iron_Times
They replaced the authority of the Infallibility with the authority of the Word of God.
(Excerpt) Read more at whatsaiththescripture.com ...
PROTESTANTISM Protestantism — The Seed of Arts, Letters, Free States, etc. — Its History a Grand Drama — Its Origin — Outside Humanity — A Great Creative Power — Protestantism Revived Christianity.
DECLENSION OF THE EARLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH Early Triumphs of the Truth — Causes — The Fourth Century — Early Simplicity lost — The Church remodeled on the Pattern of the Empire — Disputes regarding Easter-day — Descent of the Gothic Nations — Introduction of Pagan Rites into the Church — Acceleration of Corruption — Inability of the World all at once to receive the Gospel in its greatness.
DEVELOPMENT OF THE PAPACY FROM THE TIMES OF CONSTANTINE TO THOSE OF HILDEBRAND. Imperial Edicts — Prestige of Rome — Fall of the Western Empire — The Papacy seeks and finds a New Basis of Power — Christ's Vicar — Conversion of Gothic Nations — Pepin and Charlemagne — The Lombards and the Saracens — Forgeries and False Decretals — Election of the Roman Pontiff.
DEVELOPMENT OF THE PAPACY FROM GREGORY VII. TO BONIFACE VIII. The Wax of Investitures — Gregory VII. and Henry IV. — The Miter Triumphs over the Empire — Noon of the Papacy under Innocent III. — Continued to Boniface VIII. — First and Last Estate of the Roman Pastors Contrasted — Seven Centuries of Continuous Success — Interpreted by Some as a Proof that the Papacy is Divine — Reasons explaining this Marvelous Success — Eclipsed by the Gospel's Progress
MEDIAEVAL PROTESTANT WITNESSES. Ambrose of Milan — His Diocese — His Theology — Rufinus, Presbyter of Aquileia — Laurentius of Milan — The Bishops of the Grisons — Churches of Lombardy in Seventh and Eighth Centuries — Claude in the Ninth Century — His Labors — Outline of his Theology — His Doctrine of the Eucharist — His Battle against Images — His Views on the Roman Primacy — Proof thence arising — Councils in France approve his Views — Question of the Services of the Roman Church to the Western Nations.
THE WALDENSES — THEIR VALLEYS Submission of the Churches of Lombardy to Rome — The Old Faith maintained in the Mountains — The Waldensian Churches — Question of their Antiquity — Approach to their Mountains — Arrangement of their Valleys — Picture of blended Beauty and Grandeur.
THE WALDENSES — THEIR MISSIONS AND MARTYRDOMS Their Synod and College — Their Theological Tenets — Romaunt Version of the New Testament — The Constitution of their Church — Their Missionary Labors — Wide Diffusion of their Tenets — The Stone Smiting the Image.
THE PAULICIANS The Paulicians the Protesters against the Eastern, as the Waldenses against the Western Apostasy — Their Rise in A.D. 653 — Constantine of Samosata-Their Tenets Scriptural — Constantine Stoned to Death — Simeon Succeeds — Is put to Death — Sergius — His Missionary Travels — Terrible Persecutions-The Paulicians Rise in Arms — Civil War — The Government Triumphs — Dispersion of the Paulicians over the West — They Blend with the Waldenses — Movement in the South of Europe — The Troubadour, the Barbe, and the Bible, the Three Missionaries — Innocent III. — The Crusades.
CRUSADES AGAINST THE ALBIGENSES Rome founded on the Dogma of Persecution — Begins to act upon it — Territory of the Albigenses — Innocent III. — Persecuting Edicts of Councils — Crusade preached by the Monks of Citeaux — First Crusade launched — Paradise — Simon de Montfort — Raymond of Toulouse — His Territories Overrun and Devastated — Crusade against Raymond Roger of Beziers — Burning of his Towns — Massacre of their Inhabitants — Destruction of the Albigenses.
ERECTION OF TRIBUNAL OF INQUISITION The Crusades still continued in the Albigensian Territory — Council of Toulouse, 1229 — Organizes the Inquisition — Condemns the Reading of the Bible in the Vernacular — Gregory IX., 1233, further perfects the Organization of the Inquisition, and commits it to the Dominicans — The Crusades continued under the form of the Inquisition — These Butcheries the deliberate Act of Rome — Revived and Sanctioned by her in our own day — Protestantism of Thirteenth Century Crushed — Not alone — Final Ends.
PROTESTANTS BEFORE PROTESTANTISM Berengarius— The First Opponent of Transubstantiation — Numerous Councils Condemn him — His Recantation — The Martyrs of Orleans — Their Confession — Their Condemnation and Martyrdom — Peter de Bruys and thePetrobrusians — Henri — Effects of his Eloquence — St. Bernard sent to Oppose him — Henri Apprehended — His Fate unknown — Arnold of Brescia — Birth and Education — His Picture of his Times — His Scheme of Reform — Inveighs against the Wealth of the Hierarchy — His Popularity — Condemned by Innocent II. and Banished from Italy — Returns on the Pope's Death — Labors Ten Years in Rome — Demands the Separation of the Temporal and Spiritual Authority — Adrian IV. — He Suppresses the Movement — Arnold is Burned
ABELARD, AND RISE OF MODERN SKEPTICISM Number and Variety of Sects — One Faith — Who gave us the Bible? — Abelard of Paris — His Fame — Father of Modern Skepticism — The Parting of the Ways — Since Abelard three currents in Christendom — The Evangelical, the Ultramontane, the Skeptical.
(Part 2) The Reformation and the Church of Rome -------New Window By Divine Authority, the Apostle John was directed to align Nimrod's Babylon with the finally destroyed Babylon of Daniel's 70th Week (Daniel 9:27), which indicates a clear line of succession for Babylon the Great.
(Part 3) The Ecumenical Movement and the Church of Rome -------New Window It has been an historic dogma of the Catholic Church that "outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation". "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (from "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" [1992], paragraph 846). This was intended by the Papacy to place the world in universal need of coming to Rome to receive the benefits of their ecumenical salvation...
(Part 4) Come Out of Her, My People -------New Window Or, Love Alone Will Cause Us to Obey the Command to Separate From Babylon the Great "Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4).
(Part 5) Billy Graham: Christianity's Modern Balaam -------New Window "Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD" (2Chronicles 19:2).
(Part 6) The Final Judgment of the Great Whore ---New Window "He hath judged the Great Whore, which did corrupt the Earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand" (Revelation 19:1-2).
The whole world knows there was a Reformation. They've just forgotten why. They're going back to Babylon and the LORD is ANGRY.
The suggestion that St. Ambrose of Milan is among "Medieval Protestant Witnesses" is laughable to Catholics, who actually know who St. Ambrose is.
Therefore Mary, who exalted the sign of sacred virginity, is eminent, and she raised to Christ a pious banner of inviolate integrity. And, however, when all are summoned to the honor of virginity by the example of Saint Mary, there have been those who deny that she remained a virgin. We have preferred long since to not speak of this sacrilege - one so great! - but since a case has placed it into current affairs, so that a Bishop also was censured for his errors, we think that it must not be left uncondemned. (St. Ambrose of Milan, De Institutione Virginis et S. Mariae Virginitate Perpetua ad Eusebium, V, 35, my translation from P.L. 16:314)
You say by chance: "I see one thing: how do you assert to me that what I receive is the body of Christ?" And it is still left to us that we prove this. And so, how many examples do we employ? Let us prove that this is not what nature formed, but what the blessing consecrated: and that the power of the blessing is greater than that of nature; for by the blessing nature itself is changed. (St. Ambrose of Milan, De Mysteriis, IX, 50, my translation from P.L. 16:405)
What if he also was not present? still, Your Clemency might have been besought not to allow the Roman Church, head of the whole Roman world, and that holy faith of the Apostles to be disturbed; for thence the rights of venerable communnion flow unto all. (St. Ambrose of Milan, Epistulae, XI, 4, my translation from P.L. 16:946)
It was Peter himself to whom he said: Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church. Therefore, where Peter is, there is the Church: where the Church is, there is no death, but everlasting life. And so he added And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it: and I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Blessed is Peter, over whom the gates of Hell have not prevailed, against whom the gate of heaven has not closed itself! (St. Ambrose of Milan, Enarrationes in XII Psalmos Davidicos, in Ps. 40, 30, my translation from P.L. 14:1082)
That parable of the Gospel ought to satisfy these, because the rich man was clothed in fine cotton and purple, and ate full meals every day; the poor man, however, full of ulcers, gathered the scraps from his table. But after the death of both, the poor man was in the bosom of Abraham having rest, the rich man in torments. Surely it is evident that either punishments or rewards for merits await after death? (St. Ambrose of Milan, De Officiis, I, XV, 57, my translation from P.L. 16:40-1)
But that you may understand this sacrament, its figure has preceded before. Then as regards what this sacrament is, understand. See what he says: "As often as you do this, so often do this for a memorial of me, until I come again" (1 Cor. XI, 26).And the priest says: "Therefore remembering his most glorious Passion, and his Resurrection from the infernal regions, and his Ascension into heaven, we offer to you this immaculate victim, this reasonable victim, this unbloody victim, this holy bread, and the cup of everlasting life: and we seek and we pray that you may take this oblation to your altar on high through the hands of your angels, as you deigned to receive the gifts of your servant Abel the righteous, and the sacrifice of our patriarch Abraham, and what the high priest Melchisdech offered to you."
Therefore as often as you receive, what does the Apostle say to you? As often as we receieve, we announce the death of the Lord. If we announce the death, we announce the remission of sins. If as often as the blood is shed, it is shed in remission of sins; I ought always to receive it, that sins may always be forgiven to me. I who sin always, ought always to have a medicine. (St. Ambrose of Milan, De Sacramentis, III, VI, 26-28, my translation from P.L. 16:445-6)
Yeah, a real Protestant was he. I think this one example suffices to demonstrate the "quality" of this supposed "history".
I agree. Wylie was part of a long line of myth-making Protestants who tried to compensate Protestants for their lack of an ancient history by inventing one. If all of the people Wylie claim were Protestant really were Protestant than the church would have been Protestant and there would have been no "need" for the Protestant Revolution.
To see how a real Protestant church historian exposes such nonsense as that put forward by Wylie see James McGoldrick, Baptist Successionism book.
Well, the author uses a lot of colorful fonts to slander his fellow Christians who are Roman Catholics, but I fear that most of his intended audience will not be sufficiently literate to appreciate his insight. Here, this site is much better suited to his intended group of pinheads:
www.chick.com
Instead of calling people names, refute the article.
From the days of the Apostles, there have been those who have taught false doctrine. And from the time of the Apostles the Church has been there to provide guidance away from the false teachings.
However, I am always amused when Protestants claim the Paulicians, Weldenses, Albingenses as their early church fathers in order to lay claim to some early history. In reality, if the Protestants would only check into the doctrine held by these heresies, they would be mortified to claim it as their own (or at least they should be).
That always makes me laugh, too. I was stunned when I first learned that Protestants proudly claim affiliation with some of the most notorious and bizarre, sex-laced, cult-like heresies in Christian history. Of course, looking at the modern Episcopal or Lutheran Church, for example, maybe they weren't far wrong.
It's already been done.
Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History, American Theological Library Association Monograph Series, by James Edward McGoldrick, Metuchen, NJ: The Scarecrow Press, 1994, 181 pp., $27.50
Reviewed by Terry Chrisope
For anyone who has felt the attraction of Baptist successionism ("Landmarkism" in popular terminology), James McGoldrick has provided half the antidote. In Baptist Successionism he demonstrates that this peculiar but popular interpretation of ecclesiastical history is historically untenable. It may be said at the outset that he does so in absolutely convincing fashion.
McGoldrick acknowledges (p. 2) that he once held the successionist theory, which claims that there has been an unbroken line or succession of Baptist (or at least baptistic) churches from New Testament times down to the present era. This understanding of church history was popularized in the United States by J. R. Graves in the mid-nineteenth century and especially by J. M. Carroll's booklet, The Trail of Blood, published in 1931. Baptist successionism, or Landmarkism, also typically incorporates a denial of any concept of the church as the universal body of Christ made up of all Christian believers, and a rejection of all other (nonbaptist) church bodies as genuine churches.
McGoldrick's method is first to define in terms of theology and practice what it means to be Baptist, then to examine the historical groups down through the centuries that have been claimed by Baptist successionists. He gives particular attention to those sects which are mentioned as Baptist forebears in The Trail of Blood. McGoldrick is to be commended for not contenting himself with the pronouncements of later historians but instead has sought out the primary sources which describe the beliefs and practices of the groups he examines. He carefully subjects these documentary sources to critical evaluation regarding their reliability.
To cite McGoldrick's conclusions is to call the roll of the heroes of Baptist successionism, but in each case the claims made for them by successionists are found to be unsubstantiated: the evidence shows that the Montanists and Novatians were schismatic Catholics, not Baptists; St. Patrick operated under the auspices of the bishop of Rome and did not adhere to the Baptist conception of church, sacraments, or ministry; the Paulicians were not Baptists but separatists from Roman Catholicism and Greek Orthodoxy, they were anti-Trinitarian, and held an adoptionist Christology; the Bogomils were an extension of a dualistic strain of Paulicianism whose theology was not even Christian, much less Baptist; there is no positive evidence that Peter de Bruys, Henry of Lausanne, or Arnold of Brescia or their followers were Baptists; the Albigenses inherited the extreme dualism of the Bogomils and "held almost nothing in common with modern Baptists" (p. 67); and the medieval Waldenses were similar to the Roman Catholic order of Franciscans, while the later Waldenses were more akin to Presbyterians and Methodists than Baptists. Although the Anabaptists of the sixteenth century might seem on superficial consideration to be genuine ancestors of the Baptists, McGoldrick demonstrates that they held different views than Baptists on the doctrines of revelation, Christology, soteriology, and ecclesiology, and that there are no real genetic links between the Anabaptists of the continent and the Baptists of England.
Whence the Baptist, then? McGoldrick argues that the main stream of Baptist life was an outgrowth of the Calvinistic Puritan movement in England, where churches of recognizably Baptist persuasion and practice (gathered church, believer's baptism, and baptism by immersion) emerged in the 1630's and 1640's. He shows that these churches were one with their Presbyterian and Congregational brethren in the Calvinistic theology which they shared, even calling themselves Protestant and disavowing any connection with the Anabaptists. If this is the true origin of Baptists, then there is no possibility of a succession of Baptist churches from apostolic times. The Landmark doctrine is, in McGoldrick's words, "a phenomenon of relatively recent origin" (p. 145), having emerged in the nineteenth century and been popularized by J. R. Graves and J. M. Pendelton.
In view of the paucity of scholarly works by competent historians arguing against Baptist successionism, McGoldrick's book must be regarded as an important contribution. His conclusions are sound, his handling of the evidence sure, and his tone irenic but firm.
The other half of the case against Baptist successionism would be a theological argument based on careful exegesis of relevant New Testament passages--such as 1 Corinthians 12:13 and the Epistle to the Ephesians--but that would be the subject of a different book. As for this book, it is difficult to see how the historical argument could be any better presented than has been done by James McGoldrick.
And here too: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ZpOp7s6KgOMJ:catholic-convert.com/DesktopModules/UserDocuments/UserDocuments_ViewDocument.aspx%3FDocumentID%3D62+james+mcgoldrick+baptist+successionism&hl=en&start=6&ie=UTF-8
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:OvYMvRhSmMMJ:www.mwt.net/~lnpalm/reformat.htm+james+mcgoldrick+baptist+successionism&hl=en&start=7&ie=UTF-8
This simple fact is that this wacky idea of a secret Protestant or proto-Protestant church throughout the centuries is nonsense without a single shred of evidence. NO EVIDENCE. It is a product of Protestant insecurities. Protestants wish they had a more solid foundation than the whims of Martin Luther. But they don't have that. They can't claim scripture as their foundation because they don't follow scripture and don't treat it properly (e.g. use of sola scriptura which is unscriptural). Protestants have to make up history or pretend it doesn't exist to claim anything other than a man-made foundation.
I think you deserve a round of applause (*&^&^&^&^&^&^&^&^) for correctly attributing the source, author, and date of this article.
Interestingly, I have made the same observation about the claims of many Catholic and Orthodox theologians that the liturgical churches had always believed in evolution and that creationism is a recent Protestant invention. If the ancients really had been evolutionists then Darwin would not have had to "discover" evolution and it would not have caused the theological earthquake it did. Yet the ancient churches persist in making this claim even though the logic shows it is ridiculous.
Here's the sum total of Protestant history from the 1st to the 14th Century:
I don't know if anyone claims that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have always believed in evolution. I think some people make the point that the theory of evolution doesn't go against the faith, and never has.
Now now . . . there are those who like to retroject Darwinism (and even Biblical criticism) into Augustine and Basel.
And of course, when you accept a priori the beliefs of chr*stianity and the authority of the TaNa"KH secondarily naturally you aren't going to be threatened by anything unless it challenges the alleged chr*stology of the "parables." Of course, the "J*sus Seminar" is now giving the Notzerim a taste of their own medicine.
And I could say the same about all of the anti-protestant drivel on here. It has all been refuted from the Bible. But you don't care about what I believe, it's all about you. Before you start attacking other people, you need to realize you are attacking their beliefs. Demonstrate that they are wrong, don't just call names. Inform, educate, instruct.
ping for your interest
I find the history of the Church/church to be extremely complex that takes into account more than theology. You have to trace the social and political developments that were occurring at the same time as the Church was evolving.
There were major events happening throughout history that directly impacted and helped develop Protestantism. The eastern church never followed the bureaucratic structure of the western church let alone being at odds with each other over major doctrinal issues. The eastern church held to John Cassian (semi-Peligium) while the western church started with Augustine but slowly drifted away towards the eastern view. This drift, going back to the Council of Orange, IMO sowed the seeds of Protestantism which I feel is the true western church. Roman Catholicism is really evolving into the church of the east.
Major historical events such as the lost of lives during the failed Crusades, the major capital drain from the poor people building great cathedrals and the Vatican, the development of humanism during the Renaissance and the political unrest among countries all contributed to dissatisfaction with the Church who, up until this time, was the political driver. Granted doctrine had become corrupted but one has to wonder what would have been the history had the Pope simply stated to Luther, “You know, you have a point about those indulgences.” The Roman Catholic Church would have been reformed and that would probably have been that.
The simple fact is the Roman Catholic Church (like everyone else) was steeped in humanism. While the (future) Protestant movement was advocating more freedom, humanists within the Church such as Sir Thomas More was advocating consolidation of the political control into the hands of a few people for the people’s good. The RCC was stuck with paying the rising costs on the building of the Vatican after their coffers were devastated by the Crusades. Luther’s stance against indulgences were too much to bear and they made the wrong decision.
I don’t mean to suggest that doctrinal issues didn’t have much to do with the birth of Protestantism. You can trace from the Council of Orange throughout history when people started slipping away or stop attending the Church, the Church would pass a new “doctrinal belief” based upon some obscured flawed belief in order to drive the people back to the Church. I’m not going to be specific here so no one might as well ask me for one of these beliefs. The Catholics will forever argue that all these activities were always part of the Church and they’ll pull out Saint So-n-So who stated back in 850AD what he believed. If I posted any charts, as some have in the past, verifying this claim I’ll be meant with a 100 rabid Catholics saying I’m lying and Doctrine X actually happened 50 years earlier. So suffice it to say this is my opinion and leave it at that.
The history of the Church is far too complex for one article or even perhaps a book. But the “Traditions of the Fathers” as established by the Council of Trent was a simple humanistic trapping to empower the Vatican leaders (and I might add given the people’s response here it seems to have worked somewhat). Luther rightfully left and steered the church back to its basic concepts. But, as the many people I have bored to tears realize, I believe that most of Protestantism has headed east with Roman. But that is a different history.
Read Daniel 4 thru 7 for yourselves and also Revelation 12 thru 18. If anything, your reading the Word of God.
"Four great beasts"
Verse 17 says, "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings which shall arise out of the earth." Verse 23 says, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth." So a beast represents a kingdom.
Verse 4
"The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings"
Babylon is referred to as a "lion" in Jeremiah 50:17. In Ezekiel 17 Babylon is described as "a great eagle with great wings" (See verses 3 and 12).
Archaeology has revealed composite lion-eagle creatures to be common symbols in ancient Babylon. Regarding lions as royal beasts, Nebuchadnezzar engraved them on his walls and stampled bricks with them. Pictures of these may be found in LeRoy E. Froom, The Prophetic Faith of our Fathers, Vol. I, Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1950, pp. 48-52.
Eagles' wings symbolize God's providence (See Exodus 19:4 and Revelation 12:14). God Himself had set up Nebuchadnezzar and given Babylon its position of supremacy in the world (Jeremiah 27:4-8).
""The wings thereof were plucked, *and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it"
*The margin reads, "wherewith it was lifted up from the earth". So the wings, which had allowed it to be lifted up from the earth, were plucked.
This is a description of a kingdom losing its greatness and glory. It loses its wings and its lion heart. The kings who followed Nebuchadnezzar made no great advancements, but allowed the kingdom to deteriorate until it was conquered by an inferior nation.(Daniel 2:39)
Verse 5
""A bear"
As bears live in mountainous regions, so the Medes came from the mountains north of Babylon. In fact, it is said that Nebuchadnezzar's wife, a Mede, missed the mountains so much that her husband built the famous hanging gardens in Babylon to remind her of her mountain homeland.
""It raised up itself on one side"
The bear represents the united kingdoms of Media and Persia. This bear had a dominant side, which turned out to be Persia.
""It had three ribs in the mouth of it"
If you ever see a bear with ribs in its mouth, you know that it has just "devoured" some "flesh" as this verse says. These ribs represent three notable Medo-Persian conquests: Lydia in 547 B.C., Babylon in 539 B.C. and Egypt in 525 B.C.
Verse 6
""A leopard"
This leopard had four wings, indicating the exceptional swiftness of its conquests. Greece, under Alexander the Great, conquered the world with unprecedented speed.
""Four heads"
These represent the four divisions of the Greek Empire following the death of Alexander. For a discussion of these four divisions, see comments on Daniel 8:8.
""Dominion was given to it"
Dominion is a key word in Daniel 7, appearing eight times in the chapter. Who holds dominion is the issue at stake in the great controversy between Christ and Satan.
Verse 7
""A fourth beast"
This nation could not be described by any known animal. It is depicted simply as being "dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly." This was Rome. Its great iron teeth remind us of the iron legs of the image in chapter 2.
""And it had ten horns"
The Bible clearly defines the ten horns:
"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise." Daniel 7:24.
The ten horns refer to the nations into which the Western Roman Empire was absorbed. The number ten stands to represent the number of notable Germanic tribes which by the end of the fifth century had infiltrated the Empire and established themselves as kingdoms. Once that number is given in prophecy the nations represented by them are always afterward referred to as "the ten horns," even though the actual number of nations was in almost continual fluctuation throughout their history. For purposes of consistent identification of the symbol, those nations and their descendants, regardless of how many there were at any given time, are always referred to as "the ten horns."
For a detailed discussion of the invading Germanic kingdoms, see the article, The Ten Horns.
The most generally recognized list of ten kingdoms is as follows: Alemanni, Anglo-Saxons, Burgundians, Franks, Heruli, Lombards, Ostrogoths, Suevi, Vandals, Visigoths.
Verse 8
""There came up among them another little horn"
Here is a power which arises among the kingdoms which were represented by the ten horns. Of all that Daniel was shown in this vision, it is this little horn which aroused his curiosity the most. As a result, more verses in this chapter are devoted to the description of this power than to any other.
To the student of history, the identification of this little horn is unmistakable. The only major entity which gained power at the time and place specified in the prophecy, and which did indeed perform the prophecied activities, was the Roman Catholic Papacy.
""Before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots"
For purposes of identification, these would need to be three of the original Germanic kingdoms which had migrated into the the Western Roman provices; and they would need to be completely eliminated in the process of the rise of papal power. For a discussion of the possible options to be considered in indentifying these three, click here.
Which three you select as those mentioned in the text depends upon the criteria you employ in identifying them. Certainly the destruction of the three kingdoms must be related to an incompatibility between them and the developing Catholic religio-political system. The text attributes their uprooting to the papal power itself. Therefore, we must look for some connection between the rise of the papacy and the fall of the designated kingdoms. Secondly, the verse implies a complete destruction of the kingdoms, not simply a change in form.
The destruction of the once powerful kingdoms of the Vandals and the Ostrogoths fits both criteria. Both kingdoms opposed the creed of the Catholic Church. Both made it impossible for the bishop of Rome to hold supreme power in the West, and their elimination was essential to the development of the papacy. Belisarius' attack against both kingdoms was directly related to the rise of the papacy. And when in 538 the Ostrogoths were driven from Rome, the pope held undisputed supremacy throughout the West.
If the complete overthrow of a kingdom is a primary criteria for an uprooted horn, the Herulian rule in Italy must be considered to be the other horn of the three, for no Herulian kingdom survived that event. King Odoacer did oppose the Catholic creed, and his rule prevented the bishop of Rome from exercising full authority. Thus the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths are most generally recognized as being the three kingdoms which fell in answer to the prophecy. They were the three which had had the greatest impact upon the city of Rome and had been the greatest obstacle to the pope's ability to exercise authority.
The Alemanni, Visigoths, and Burgundians, on the other hand, had been somewhat removed from the center of Catholic power, and their presence did not restrict the pope's activities in Rome. While Clovis' attacks on the Visigoths were indeed inspired by his desire to extend the Catholic creed throughout Gaul, the defeated Goths were not extinguished, only displaced.
The three uprooted horns may be summarized as those kingdoms whose domination succeeded that of the Western emperors in the control of Rome and Italy, and whose elimination was essential to the implementation of full papal authority. These were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths.
""Eyes like the eyes of man"
This is generally understood to be a symbol of intelligence. In contrast with the barbarians, who were largely illiterate, the papacy provided farseeing intellectual leadership.
""A mouth speaking great things”
Comparing this with similar expressions in verses 11, 20, and 25, this characteristic describes the boastful and blasphemous claims of the papacy.
Verse 9
""I beheld"
From the scene of earthly kingdoms, Daniel's attention is now turned to events transpiring in heaven.
""Thrones were cast down"
The phrase "cast down" is from the Aramaic word remi, which may correctly be translated "to set in place."
""The Ancient of days did sit"
This is God, the Father, called in Revelation 1:4, "Him which is, and which was, and which is to come." These expressions imply His eternity of existence.
""Fire"
Three times in verses 9 and 10 is fire mentioned. This is the indescribable glory that surrounds the personal being of God.
Verse 10
""Thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him"
This is the number of angels which surround God's throne (See Revelation 5:11). The psalmist indicates that these angels stand ready to do God's bidding:
"The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all. Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure." Psalm 103:19-21.
""The judgment was set"
This heavenly throne-room scene is describing the commencement of the great judgment. The reality of the judgment is clearly taught throughout the Scriptures. See sample texts.
""And the books were opened"
These books contain the evidence which is brought forth in the judgment. What is recorded in the books? The Bible tells us very specifically. See the texts.
Verse 11
""I beheld then"
The arrangement of these verses implies that the horn power is still speaking his great words while the judgment is taking place in heaven. Notice the order:
The Bible indicates that the determinative phase of the judgment takes place before Jesus returns. We sometimes refer to this phase as the pre-advent judgment.
Verse 12
"The rest of the beasts" would be the lion, the bear, and the leopard. Here it says that even though those kingdoms lost their dominion, yet in some way their lives were prolonged. Revelation 13:2 describes a beast from the sea which is a composite of a leopard, a bear, and a lion. In that beast the essence of these earlier kingdoms was prolonged.
Verse 13
""I saw"
The description of the judgment continues.
""One like the Son of man"
This is Jesus, who in light of His incarnation most often referred to Himself as "the Son of man."
""Came with the clouds of heaven"
""Came to the Ancient of days"
Described in Revelation 1:4 as "Him which is, and which was, and which is to come," the Ancient of days is God the Father.
The judgment was set, the books were opened, and now the Son of man, to whom the Father "hath committed all judgment" (John 5:22), is brought in.
Verse 14
""And there was given unto him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom"
The judgment results in the establishment of Christ's kingdom. When the work of judgment ceases, it has been decided who shall be subjects of that kingdom. At that time Jesus begins to reign, and He soon destroys the kingdoms of men (verse 26).
Verse 16
""The interpretation of the things"
After receiving this vision, Daniel was not left to guess as to its meaning. As the angel explained the symbolism of beasts as kingdoms (verse 17), Daniel was particularly interested in the fourth beast (verse 19), which represented the fourth kingdom (verse 23). He wanted to know about the ten horns, but especially about the little horn (verse 20). All these things were explained to him in the succeeding verses.
Verse 25
""And he shall speak great words against the most High"
This is in reference to the little horn, which we have identified in verse 8 as the papacy. Regarding the "great words" spoken of here, see comments on "a mouth speaking great things" in verse 8. "And shall wear out the saints of the most High"
Verse 21 mentioned that "the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them." Thus the papacy was predicted to be a persecutor of God's people.
The millions of martyrdoms inflicted by the Roman church is a fact that is largely forgotten today. Yet history faithfully reports that the Church of Rome has taken the lives of more men, women, and children than has any other institution that has ever existed.
"And think to change times and laws"
Here prophecy foretold that the papacy would tamper with "times and laws." The words, "think to change" suggest that the times and laws concerned are actually outside the jurisdiction of the little horn, yet he would attempt to change them. Whose times and laws would they be? In context, the "great words" that he speaks are against "the most High," and the "saints" which he would "wear out" were of "the most High." Logically then, the "times and laws" which he would think to change would also be "of the most High." The papacy would think to change God's times and laws.
The pope has indeed claimed the right to change God's law. Notice the following quotation:
"The pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws. The pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts in the place of God upon earth."(Lucius Ferraris, "Papa," art. 2, in Prompta Bibliotheca)
God's law is recorded in Exodus 20. God spoke those commandments with His own voice and wrote them with His own finger on tables of stone. Yet, the papacy claims the right to alter them. Look in a standard Catholic catechism and compare the commandments of men with the laws of God as written in the Bible.
For example, God's second commandment says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." But because images are an important part of Catholic worship, the papacy has completely removed this commandment from its catechism and renumbered the rest of the commandments, dividing the tenth into two to make ten.
>Daniel 7:25 says that he shall think to change "times and laws." The only law of God pertaining to time is His fourth commandment. It says, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work." Exodus 20:8-10.
Have you ever wondered why most Christians observe Sunday as their day of worship rather than the seventh day of the week, as was done in Bible times? Here is the answer: "The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." The Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1893.
Notice the following from an autographed letter from Cardinal Gibbons:
""And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time"
This would be the period during which the little horn would exercise its supremacy. We learned in chapter 4 of Daniel that a "time" is one year. Nebuchadnezzar lost his sanity until "seven times" had passed. That was seven years.
I'm a black-text-on-white-background person, just can't help it. The Cat Is lying on Your Shift Key, and you've contracted Homophonia.
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