'Road Map' Riles Some Evangelicals

AP ^ | 7/25/03 | Malcolm Foster

[truthandlife]

As Israelis and Palestinians take faltering steps toward ending Mideast violence, Christian groups in the United States have different stances on the U.S.-backed peace plan.

The majority of churches - Roman Catholic, Orthodox, mainline Protestant and some evangelical groups - generally welcome the three-step plan called the "road map," which envisions the creation of a Palestinian state by 2005.

A vocal segment of evangelical Protestants, however, is lobbying the Bush administration to abandon the peace plan. They say it rewards terrorism and violates God's promise in Genesis to give the Jewish people the historic land of Israel.

"Christian Zionists" also see the modern state of Israel as a fulfillment of biblical prophecy - and a precondition of the second coming of Jesus Christ. Setting up a Palestinian stats is seen as undermining these end times events.

"Because of their apocalyptic interpretation of the Bible, they view the initiative as a betrayal," said Randall Balmer, a religion professor at Columbia University.

Gary Bauer, a former Republican presidential candidate and an evangelical Christian, is spearheading a one-state solution campaign" with a group called Americans for a Safe Israel. The group is erecting billboards and distributing bumper stickers emblazoned with a verse from Genesis: "And the Lord said to Jacob...'Unto thy offspring will I give this land.'"

Another group, Christian Friends of Israel Communities, last year donated $200,000 from U.S. churches to help build Jewish settlements in "Judea and Samaria" - the biblical [ed.: and most accurate] name for the West Bank.

"Judea and Samaria were given to the Jews by God, and I cannot see the United States of America taking this land and giving it to a known terrorist," said religious broadcaster Pat Robertson, referring to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

Such views, heard widely on Christian radio and television - and increasingly picked up in the Muslim media - are harshly criticized as counterproductive and theologically misguided by most other American Christian groups, including a significant number of evangelicals.

"Christian Zionists have turned their biblical interpretation into a political ideology that is aligning itself with the most extreme forms of Zionism in (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon's own coalition," said Donald Wagner, a religion professor at North Park University in Chicago and a do-founder of Evangelicals for Middle East Understanding.

Gerard Powers, director of the international justice and peace office at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that the Christian Zionist view was too one-sided.

Others said that Christian Zionists were ignoring the suffering of Palestinian Christians, whose roots in the area go back to the early church.

Bauer, president of American Values, a conservative think tank, counters that a Palestinian state "will be used as a launching pad for more terrorist attacks against Israel."

Christian Zionism is based on a theology called dispensationalism. It emphasizes a literal reading of prophetic and apocalyptic passages in the Bible. Dispensationalists believe that the regathering of the Jewish people in Israel is foretold in Scripture, and that Israel will play a key role in end time events.

This theology - popularized in the "Left Behind" novels - is embraced by about a quarter to a third of the evangelical Protestants in this country, or as many as 17 million Americans, estimated Timothy Weber, a church historian and president of the Memphis Theological Seminary.

By pushing the Mideast initiative, Bush risks alienating those evangelical voters.

Activism from churches supporting the peace plan - modest until now - has intensified, partly in reaction to the anti-road map efforts.

Churches for Mideast Peace, a coalition of 18 mainline Protestant and Catholic groups, has been sending out e-mail alerts to 4,000 grassroots organizers, urging them to contact their congressional representatives to back the road map.

[wideawake]

Christian Zionism is based on a theology called dispensationalism.

Not necessarily. Not everyone who supports the Israeli position is a Left Behind cultist.

[lupie]

Christian Zionism is based on a theology called dispensationalism.

Not necessarily. Not everyone who supports the Israeli position is a Left Behind cultist.

So true. And not every Christian Zionsist is a dispensationalist. Which then makes his statement about what Christian Zionism is to be wrong.

In Jesus alone,
Andra

[Iscool]

This theology - popularized in the "Left Behind" novels

Sorry, but wrong again...This "theology" was popularized by GOD, in the Bible...

[wideawake]

"Dispensationalism" was invented by John Darby in the early 1800s.

Before Darby's preaching, this view was not particularly prevalent, and it is still the minority view.

The solicitude among Christians for Jews is based in great part on St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans - not necessarily on Darbyite theories regarding the endtimes.

[joesnuffy]

Mainstream religous groups like the "National Council of Churches or the World Council of Churches"?

These "news releases" are often disinfo campaigns against Evangelicals of the "dispensationalist" persuasion...as there are no hard and fast rules here as to what that means exactly...or how that is germane in what one believes "what one must do in order to "be saved"

The common disinfo techinique has been to accuse Christians of being "Zionists" because they wish to "usher in" the return of Jesus...and believe they can...

Pretty far fetched..as no one I have read belives this is possible any more than the RoadMap could prevent Jesus from coming back..Or that Evangelicals of the "dispensationalist persuasion" believe that they have the power to manipulate God the Father or God the Son

He will return when He chooses to and was He promised ..not one second sooner or later...there is no one nor anything that man could possibly do to prevent delay or promote His return-a fact every Evangelical is accutely aware of ..or at least should be..

So the relationship between "dispensationalist" Evangelicals and Israel must be based upon something else entirely- imo

The promise made to Abraham ..I will bless those who bless thee and I will curse those who curse thee...for example

And the fact that God choose to become man through the Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite people
And that Jesus' concern for Jerusalem was so great He wept over her...for another example
there are many others-

Islam-imo- is a satanic religion that breeds terror...it is a death cult...to appease it to give in to it to reward it is simply wrong...for Christians to back The foolishness of trusting peace let alone keeping promises to terrorists is -imo- pure foolishness...

Perhaps to steal Israeli land and give it to terrorists seems like the ticket to peace..but the gross inequity the injustice of giving land to murderers rapists theives terrorists seems like a breach of promise to me..

I am reminded of the words of our president: "From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."
- President GW Bush

[lupie]

He will return when He chooses to and was He promised ..not one second sooner or later...there is no one nor anything that man could possibly do to prevent delay or promote His return-a fact every Evangelical is accutely aware of ..or at least should be..

How very true. The appointed time of His blessed return is already set and has been. Watching what is happening in the fight over the land given to Abrahm, Isaac and Jacob and how it is playing out is a sign to Evangelicals that the Messiah's coming is likely very soon, but we do not know when, nor can we change it.

In Jesus alone,
Andra

[almcbean]

The flaw in their argument is this-anything ordained or promised by god will happen no matter what we do. Their argument is basically that man is screwing up God's plan- which is impossible. I like Bauer, and am not a Robertson basher, despite his occasional foot-in mouth disease. What this demonstrates is the problem we can get into when we let our politics influence our theology.

[Justice]

There have been fights in the Land as far back as one can see practically.

Imagine the apocalyptic ideas that must have been thrown around when the Muslims first took the land from Byzantium (christians) before the first millenium for example.

You will not be able to predict the time of Jesus' coming...it will truly be like a thief in the night.

[NH Liberty]

"no one I have read belives this is possible any more than the RoadMap could prevent Jesus from coming back..Or that Evangelicals of the "dispensationalist persuasion" believe that they have the power to manipulate God the Father or God the Son He will return when He chooses to and was He promised ..not one second sooner or later...there is no one nor anything that man could possibly do to prevent delay or promote His return-a fact every Evangelical is accutely aware of ..or at least should be.. So the relationship between "dispensationalist" Evangelicals and Israel must be based upon something else entirely- imo The promise made to Abraham ..I will bless those who bless thee and I will curse those who curse thee...for example "

Well said, joesnufy. Some of the "information" that gets written by these secular liberals about [Bible-believing] Christians is astonishingly incorrect.

But your response (#6?) was a veddy good one.

[BenR2]

Not necessarily. Not everyone who supports the Israeli position is a Left Behind cultist.


////////////
Kindly define "cultist" as you are using it here, so we can know exactly what you are saying?

[wideawake]

Kindly define "cultist" as you are using it here, so we can know exactly what you are saying?

A person who believes that the Darby/Scofield thesis regarding the endtimes defines Christianity, and that unless one accepts dispensationalism one is not really a Christian.

[KriegerGeist]

This is what "riles" this Evangelical Christian:

that President Bush has been siding with the U.S. State Department and siding with the PA which appears as a "double standard" when it comes to the war on terrorism.

I am also of the opinion that the anti-Israel-pro-Islam U.S. State Department (a den of poisonous vipers) needs a good "house-cleaning" as is beginning to be done at the Pentagon.
Then, along with the U.S. State Department being a member of the "Quartet" made up of the anti-Israel-anti-Jewish: U.N., European Union, Russia and the U.S. State Department?

There are also such issues as:

1. Why the standard for the U.S. war on terrorism is not be the same standard for Israel's war on terrorism?

2. Why is the U.S. State Department pressuring Israel to make them do what we ourselves in this country would never, ever put up with?

3.Then, why is the U.S. not allowing Israel to deal with (or completely wipe-out) all the terrorist organizations in Syria?

4.Why the U.S. is not allowing Israel to kick the Syrians out of Lebanon and send them packing back to Syria?

5. Why not allow Israel to put Arafat's lights out once and for all? We sent Uday and Qusay to Paradise and hopefully soon Saddam himself.

6. Why not allow Israel eliminate their terrorist problem completely by sending the "Trans-Jordanians" (calling themselves Palestinians) back to Jordan where they belong? There they have their "state".

6. Why is the U.S. pressuring Israel to let terrorists out of their prisons when we have not done the same?

7. A very big "rile" is pressuring Israel to give up God-promised-God-given land promised to Abram and his descendants forever.... That, to me is "Nonnegotiable"! Israel should give up not one square foot of land.

These pressures "rile" me because it may be a grave mistake which could cause the wrath of God on the United States in my opinion.

[BenR2]

A person who believes that the Darby/Scofield thesis regarding the endtimes defines Christianity, and that unless one accepts dispensationalism one is not really a Christian.


//////////
Okay. Now, how MANY people who actually believe that way have you met in your life?

(I follow Darby's eschatology [as eschatology, not as a definitive statement of the faith], but last evening attended a Presbyterian church where no one else does -- and enjoyed the fellowship greatly.)

[wideawake]

Now, how MANY people who actually believe that way have you met in your life?

Two that I can confirm. They are out there and they are vocal.

[BenR2]

Now, how MANY people who actually believe that way have you met in your life?
Two that I can confirm. They are out there and they are vocal.

////
(It's not exactly a major religious phenomenon sweeping the land, then, is it?)

[SJackson]

That's an excellent list.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[SJackson]

Kindly define "cultist" as you are using it here, so we can know exactly what you are saying?

Left Behind cultist.

I was hoping it meant a leftist who thinks out of his behind, I might have used it :>)

[nmh]

Kind of interesting to see who really reads the Bible and who doesn't. Their answers give them away. Clearly you read it. I do as well. Most don't.