That was close.
Regards, Ivan
Posted on 09/01/2002 1:38:58 AM PDT by MadIvan
The Muslim convert accused of trying to hijack a Ryanair plane from Sweden to Stansted attended an American flying school leaving with a qualification to pilot light aircraft.
The revelation that Kerim Chatty, 29, had taken flying lessons in the US - just like the September 11 terrorists - came as detectives investigated reports that he was planning to crash the plane into an American embassy in Europe, possibly London.
An intelligence officer in Sweden told Reuters: "We know for sure that the plan was to crash the plane into a US embassy in Europe."
If London were the target, the plane would have arrived at the US embassy in Grosvenor Square at around 5.35pm on Thursday, when the area would have been packed with workers and commuters.
There was confusion, however, as to exactly what Chatty, a keep-fit fanatic with a Swedish mother and Tunisian father, intended. Margareta Linderoth, the Swedish security police director, said the reports that US embassies were the target were false and categorically denied that he had been part of a five-man al Qaeda cell. British security officials said that inquiries into Chatty's targets were continuing.
They confirmed, however, that Chatty, who tried to board the Ryanair plane with a loaded gun in a sponge bag, knew how to fly. He spent some time at the North American Institute of Aviation (NAIA) flight school in Conway, South Carolina, leaving in early 1997.
Many of the hijackers of the four planes that were hijacked on September 11 also attended US flight schools.
The NAIA flight school confirmed that Chatty had studied there but said that he had been told to leave after two months because of his temper. Bob Sunday, a spokesman for the school, said: "My understanding is he was not a good student and was terminated from the school. He did not have a suitable temperament for flying."
Security officers in Sweden said Chatty did not leave with a full pilot's licence but had received a qualification allowing him to fly light aircraft.
Chatty was arrested on suspicion of hijacking, and possessing a firearm, after he tried to board a Ryanair Boeing 737 to Stansted, in Essex, carrying 189 people, with the weapon in his hand luggage. Security officials at the small Vasteras airport, 60 miles west of Stockholm, said the weapon was a 6.5mm pistol.
Chatty was believed to be on his way to a conference of Muslims in Birmingham dedicated to purifying Islam, run by Salafi Publications, an Islamic bookshop. Salafi is a strong fundamentalist form of Islam that seeks to return the religion to ancient beliefs.
Adherents are thought to have included Mohamed Atta, the leader of the September 11 hijackers, who was carrying a Salafi tract in his luggage.
Abu Khadeejah, one of the organisers of the conference, said he did not know Chatty.
Police in Stockholm confirmed that Chatty was a Swedish citizen who adopted Islam a year ago. A former boxing champion, he was jailed for nine months in 1998 for possessing a machine pistol and has convictions for possessing a shotgun, theft, driving without a licence and receiving stolen goods.
Nils Uggla, Chatty's lawyer, said his client could explain why he had the gun and that he was not a terrorist. Mr Uggla said: "He denies that this has anything at all to do with terrorism or plane hijacking. He is deeply sorry that he caused trouble for the others who were travelling."
Chatty's parents, who have another son and two daughters, also protested his innocence, as they spoke from their luxury home, which overlooks a lake in a quiet village north of Stockholm.
His mother Gunilla, 54, reportedly said: "He is not a terrorist and it is outrageous for anyone to suggest it. This is all a mistake and it will be proved that our son is innocent. I cannot understand why he had that gun with him. I know it must be a mistake. He would never have hijacked that plane. I cannot stop crying about this. It is a catastrophe for our family."
She admitted, however, that her son had become increasingly committed to Islam. "He had met Muslims in Sweden and was interested in what they had to say, but after he returned from America he was much more serious about it."
Chatty's Tunisian-born father Sarok, 58, also defended his son. "When my son was 19, he was wild, stupid, and even crazy and kept bad company and did make some mistakes and minor misdemeanours, but he changed after those days.
"He acquired the gun then and had it with him since, but he never used it violently, or any way else and he never intended to use it."
Mr Chatty said that he believed that his son had forgotten that the gun was in his luggage after moving flat three months ago, although this contradicted Chatty's own claim that the gun was planted on him.
He said that Chatty had enjoyed a happy childhood and was "just a normal boy".
"He was always very kind and popular. His teachers used to say that he was a peacemaker who would always break up fights in the playground."
Ulf Palm, a spokesman for the Swedish police, said that Chatty, who has been moved to a high security prison, would probably be charged on Monday.
He is being held on preliminary charges of attempting to hijack a plane and illegal possession of a firearm.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "We are liaising as a matter of course with Swedish authorities and continue to offer every assistance. This may involve sending anti-terrorist officers in due course."
Further details of Chatty's months in the US emerged last night. After leaving his flying course in South Carolina, he moved to Pembroke Pines, a Florida town near Palm Beach and north of Miami, close to Delray Beach, where nine of the September 11 hijackers lived.
In Pembroke Pines, Chatty is reported to have lived in a flat with three or four other men of Arab appearance.
He is thought to have attended several other flying schools, including another in South Carolina and one in Florida.
That was close.
Regards, Ivan
Yeah, he got worse.
The same could be said for Euan Blair (the Prime Minister's son). However Euan Blair reacted by getting drunk and throwing up at Leicester Square. This fellow carries a gun in his carry on in an attempt to hit London.
Regards, Ivan
A highly placed intelligence source said police were hunting four more men, including an explosives expert, who were believed to have worked on the plan with the suspect.
This may be germaine to our previous discussion, especially since it was 1997.
BTW, Conway is near Myrtle Beach if anyone wonders where it is.
After leaving his flying course in South Carolina, he moved to Pembroke Pines, a Florida town near Palm Beach and north of Miami, close to Delray Beach, where nine of the September 11 hijackers lived. In Pembroke Pines, Chatty is reported to have lived in a flat with three or four other men of Arab appearance. He is thought to have attended several other flying schools, including another in South Carolina and one in FloridaA new cell, or part of the old one? Did he train at the Venice school?
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STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Swedish police are scrambling to meet a legal deadline to charge a man of Tunisian origin suspected of a plane hijack plot just days before the first anniversary of September 11 attacks on the United States. More... |
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Well, let me tell you something, you Swedish Bitch in a Luxury House overlooking a lake...there are one hell of a lot of people who are having trouble stopping crying since 9/11 when the buddies of your spawn butchered their family members!
If you are looking for sympathy, may I suggest the dictionary...you will find it between suicide and syphillus!
I would like to believe that this near miss will awaken the people of Britain - but I think we can all picture the editorial in the Mirror and the Guardian – “America should withdraw their embassies from Europe as they pose a threat to the safety of the nation blah blah blah...”
Only to the extent that they demand the US Embassy be closed so there are no Muslim targets on their precious soil.
Excerpts from OEB's link:
- a newspaper reported police had already questioned him since September 11 after he visited Saudi Arabia- Swedish security services had interviewed Chatty about possible contacts with radical Muslim groups after he returned from Saudi Arabia where he had been studying Islam.
- A highly-placed intelligence source said police were hunting four more men, including an explosives expert, who were believed to have worked on the plan with the suspect.
- A source in Sweden's Sapo security police said Sapo had been told by the government to play the latest incident down at a politically sensitive time, two weeks before an election.
- James Lamb, assistant chief flight instructor with the North American Institute of Aviation in Conway, South Carolina, said an FBI agent was at the school on Saturday seeking information on Kerim Chatty, a former student who attended the school from September 1996 to April 1997. Lamb said Chatty had been "terminated" for poor performance and lack of progress.
- Another Sapo source told Reuters the security police were working on the theory that the group were planning to crash at least one plane, and possibly more, into a U.S. embassy. They did not know which embassy had been targeted.
- Swedish police do not believe the arrested man or anyone he was working with were part of bin Laden's al Qaeda guerrilla group. Instead they believe a copycat attack was being planned.
- Swedish papers said the suspect had become a devout Muslim in recent years, regularly visiting a mosque in Stockholm. It quoted his friends as saying he had often spoken of fighting for Islam but was not a member of any organisation
- His father was quoted by Aftonbladet as saying the suspect had made two trips to Saudi Arabia to study Islam and was there when the September 11 suicide attacks took place. His latest visit was in February this year.
Either the Swedes don't want to upset the royals, or we've asked them to go easy...
I do question the part about flying the plane into the US embassy. From the air, it would be hard to find. You need a good target...which is why the twin towers (sticking up on the south end of Manhatten) and the Pentagon (go down the river and aim slightly south when you see the large pentagonal building) were hit, and the Pennsylvania plane would have probably hit the US Capitol, not the whitehouse, which is hard to see from the air...
I haven't flown over London so what do you guys who fly to Europe guess was the target?
When my son was 19, he was wild, stupid, and even crazy and kept bad company and did make some mistakes and minor misdemeanours, but he changed after those days.
Translation: "I dun been manifested by a miracle, I don' eat no swine, I don' drink no wine."
Crazy caucasian bitches would never understand that their marriages (or, more possible, just copulating) with Musli bullshit machos inevitably lead not only to their own suffering in the end of the day, but to creation of weird offspring which doesn't feel itself at home with neither Mom's, nor Dad's religion and culture.
Thus the need not just to 'convert' to Islam, but to become an Islamist, i.e. a terrorist.
LOL! Couldn't be told better!
Lamb said Chatty had been "terminated" for poor performance and lack of progress.
Lol. Poor Kerim, obviously he's a victim of a hate crime. Perhaps the South Carolina chapter of the NAACP can sue North American Institute of Aviation and demand reparations.
Ask yourself this question whenever you want to ask whether or not it would affect Guardian readers - would it affect people who read the Washington Post and listen to NPR?
Regards, Ivan
Seems like the kind of place where foreigners would stick out, doesn't it?
Adherents are thought to have included Mohamed Atta, the leader of the September 11 hijackers, who was carrying a Salafi tract in his luggage.
According to another article (see link below), not only Atta and others on 911, but also Osama and his followers all belong/belonged to Salafi Islam.
So it matters not whether they are all linked to Al Qaeda, what seems to matter the most is that they are linked to Salafi, which is closely allied with Wahhabism. Richard Reid was another Salafi-type. Salafi by the way, is mainly funded by the Saudis, as if we couldn't have guessed this on our own.
I'm getting a bit weary of the denials coming from these imams who think they can still pull the wool over our eyes. Or maybe they are still able to deceive our governments, but I would hope not.
Interesting article at this link, on Salafism:
And thanks for the ping, Ivan!
According to Salafi Islam, a modern state is fundamentally incompatible with true Islam and has to be fought in a jihad (holy war). Traditional Islamic law distinguishes between those born as infidels and those born Muslims who later become infidels. The latter are regarded as apostates and must be exterminated.
Salafi thought takes this concept one step further: all those who fail to rise against the corrupt, modern state by definition are infidels and, if Muslims, apostates.
Planes for overseas flights are usually subject to greater security scrutiny than ones for short hops, hence the plotters could really only go for planes of the type you describe.
Al Qaeda likes symbolic damage, and the US Embassy in London is not a particularly obvious target.
Regards, Ivan
On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists.
But I need your help.
As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist. How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and the Arab-Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those very same good neighbors and children?
The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of it's religions, with ALL of it's different citizens, with all of it's faults. It is time for every Arab-Muslim in this country to determine it for me.
I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to it's flag? Do you proudly display in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it?
Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your "Jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America?
If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it. Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America.
Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. And no more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you.
I am not interested in any more sympathy ...I am only interested in action.
What will you do for America-our great country-at this time of crisis, at this time of war?
I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America". I want to see young Arab-Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are.
Hand them over to us, now!
But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action.
Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals. The very few Arab-Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States prove who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.
If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance. It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion.
A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members defended Johnny Cochran and O. J. Simpson after the latter butchered his wife and murdered an innocent friend. A form whose members (some as young a five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.
Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire middle-east? And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us?
If so, I want you to leave. I want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion.
We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the world.
I want to know where every Arab-Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand." "
Until then ... you worry me." ""
I think there are several reasons -
Size - the USA is a big, diverse country and if terrorists can't worm into one part, they can try another.
Wealth - people aren't as wealthy here to afford hobbies like flying so readily as you lot.
Experience - I do think because of a greater experience with terrorism with the IRA, we have more experience with how to spot it and stop it than you do.
Targeting - if the USA is the target, it makes more sense to penetrate just the USA than penetrate both the UK and USA, Germany and the USA, etc.
Regards, Ivan
Sounds a lot like John Waklker Lindh, with the big difference of the father's Islamic origins. Britain is about to pay a big price for ostracizing Enoch Powell decades ago.
Not at all. Myrtle beach is a year-'round resort area--sand and surf, camping at the ocean front, fishing etc. in the summer and golf in the winter.
There used to be an airforce base there, but I don't know if it was axed in the base closings or not.
These SAPO agents are unable to look outside the box, their own perceptions, and the underlying philosophy of these strains of Islam. Of all locations to attack, with a kill vehicle that could destroy any of the large skyscrapers in North Western Europe, why would the intended target (US London Embassy) be a location that would at best only kill a thousand innocent citizens? The return ratio would be significantly less then optimum and maximum returns.
The Europeans can't fathom the concept that they could be the next target, with all of their support of the Pallies, their hosting of a multitude of radicals, and so many other gestures of appeasement.
How do we know that this plane wasn't intended to be hijacked so that the Terrorist cell would be able to demand the release of some British held fellow terrorists to the plane and a fuel refill for a trip to any number of Muslim countries?
Because the grip of political correctness has this country's leaders by the short & curlys. The "war on terror" is another "war on drugs", a paper tiger.
The impending Iraq offensive is merely a distraction. Even less attention will be paid to immigration, borders, profiling, or anything else that will really end terrorism. The Beast had Yugoslavia, Bush has Iraq.
Political correctness will win again and we're all that much less safe.
Israel has terrorists within its borders too. Despite an overwhelming military they refuse to solve the problem. Why? Because they too are gripped by the slow death of political correctness. Not until Israel values the lives of its citizens more than it does the opinions of the UN, EU, and media will there be positive change.
Intelligence forces across the pond know exactly (more or less :) what's going on.
I was looking through my notes for something else and came across this old thread. It seems particularly timely right now...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/647862/posts - from last March: Excerpts:
A DEFECTOR from Iraq has given American intelligence details of a secret underground network of laboratories where Saddam Hussein is believed to be building weapons of mass destruction.The defector is a 43-year-old civil engineer named Adnan Sayeed who worked on 20 sites. He has provided evidence suggesting they are part of a network of bunkers where chemical and biological weapons have been made and where attempts are under way to create a nuclear bomb.
A second defector has reported that Iraq has constructed seven mobile germ laboratories, which have been disguised as milk lorries.
Amid growing tension over plans by President George W Bush to force Saddam from power, the Foreign Office has alerted all its embassies after eight Iraqis were found spying on British diplomats in Sweden in preparation for suspected terrorist attacks.
The eight, including two diplomats, were expelled or banned from the country after carrying out reconnaissance on British and American missions in Sweden.
The expulsions in January were the first sign that Saddam may have activated a European network of spies to retaliate if he is attacked .....
Concern about retaliatory strikes in Europe in the event of war intensified when two Iraqis were expelled from Sweden. Muhsen al-Haidai, a chargé d'affaires, and Abdul Kadir Hussein were given 12 days to leave the country after Swedish police were provided with evidence of their spying.
While I'm not implying that these Salfi critters on the Ryanair flight are Iraqi agents, I don't believe they are trying to commemorate an attack in the US by striking US targets in Europe. Hussein is using them to send you a message, MadIvan. He wants you to stay out of the war...
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