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MCSEs: We are all idiots
Myelabs.com ^ | 11/5/01 11:44:36 AM | Editorial Staff

Posted on 11/06/2001 7:11:47 PM PST by Justa

MCSEs: We are all idiots
Date:11/5/01 11:44:36 AM

As we watch our economy slide effortlessly down the road to a solid recession

Introduction:

    As we watch our economy slide effortlessly down the road to a solid recession, the IT and airline industries are fiercely competing for the coveted 'most jobs cut' award.  As a response to this and to last year's enormous .com bust, technical institutes, universities, community colleges and seminars that made it their mission, starting a few years ago, to quickly and efficiently pour additional 'qualified' people into the then undermanned  and rapidly expanding IT workforce have come to the realization that it is time to slow their efforts and look for alternative courses and programs to pursue.  Right?  Not one bit.  I wouldn't go as far as to say that the opposite is happening, but let's put it this way, if you haven't seen an ITT Technical Institute commercial in recent weeks praising the value and quality of their networking and other IT courses and assuring the promise of a bright future for those who join these programs, you don't have TV.

    One of the largest issues negatively affecting the health of the today's IT industry is the continued pursuit of failed, and increasingly meaningless certification programs, the most dangerous one of all being Microsoft's MCSE certification.  And since there are too many IT certifications out there to spend time evaluating the true value of each one, let's focus on Microsoft's popular MCSE (Microsoft Certified System Engineer) certification since it has in fact managed to process over 400,000 people into MCSE in the last few years.  For those who are not familiar with this program, it is in short a certification obtained by passing 6 or 7 exams related to computer networking using Microsoft's popular Windows NT or Windows 2000 operating systems and is aimed to enable MCSEs to design, install, support and troubleshoot information systems based on Microsoft Corp. software.  There are no other requirements besides passing the exams, no college level credits required, no proof of class attendance. 

    Just to remove the element of surprise, I intend, in the following article to do my best to expose the misinformation and straight lies that keep the MCSE certification process from being remodeled into an efficient program that could truly benefit the IT industry and its customers instead of making a mockery out of both.  How can I be so cruel as to attempt to dash the hopes of those poor souls who are currently on page 3 of their networking essentials book?  Well, there's an MCSE 'diploma' with my name on it at home, somewhere, and the only thing I really feel certified as is an idiot for having wasted the money to acquire it.    

Background:

    Certifications are not a new concept, they have been around in fields such the automotive industry for many years, but the IT certifications rose to fame very quickly 4 or 5 years ago when the industry was in dire need of a large and immediate input of 'qualified' employees and did not have the patience or possibility of waiting for those working on 4-year degrees to fill the various positions that were opening at an alarming rate in the technology field.  The certification process therefore enabled the industry to expect a large supply of potential employees who learned their skills in a matter of a few months or less instead of the years it took for college grads to enter the market.  Besides the benefit of a quickly trained supply of fresh employees, new certifications could also be quickly created and existing ones modified according to the latest industry developments something which is just not possible with standard 4 year college curriculums.  As a result, those who sought there certifications were thought to be more up to speed on the very latest technologies as opposed to college grads who started their computer education with basic and largely archaic skills and worked their way up to more modern technologies, building a much deeper understanding and greater knowledge along the way.  As far as those who were already employed in the industry are concerned, certifications were a relatively easy way for their employers to encourage them to learn new skills to keep up with ever changing technologies and be presented with proof that the classes they provided their employees with were taken seriously enough for them to pass the exams.

How popular are Microsoft's various certifications?

Microsoft Certified Technical Education Centers are spreading at an alarming rate.
If you're thinking about taking your MCSE certification course in Namibia but are worried that because your country's population size barely exceeds that of Detroit's you might not find a Microsoft Certified school or testing center, don't worry, you'll find your local Microsoft Certified academy's contact information on the right. 

Information Technology Learning Academy
Windhoek, Namibia  NAM
(61) 223-763

Testing Center:
INSTITUTE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
79 HOSEA KUTAKO DRIVE
WINDHOEK, 
264 61 253 141

The current situation:

A little over a year ago, I picked up a book entitled "SQL in 10 Minutes" (published by SAMS in 2000), you could read it over and over again for a solid decade and not know SQL at all, but it's good for a couple of laughs here and there.  For those of you who don't know what SQL is, the title of this book is equivalent to something on the order of  "How to landscape your yard if you don't have one".  Unfortunately, the title of this book reflects to a large degree the much abused sense of urgency that has rendered programs like the MCSE certification simply incapable of truly assuring employers and employees alike that they have indeed learned the skill sets supposedly required to pass the exams, the rush to get it done simply does not push students to learn any more than they must to pass the exams.

But how much did the industry as a whole suffer from this massive input of low quality labor?

I'm not sure whether Microsoft and all of the other companies who benefit from the MCSE program and desperately want to keep it going realize it or not, but they are actually doing a great disservice to not only those who wish to work in the IT industry and those who already do but also to the businesses that hire these people.  How did this certification frenzy hurt the industry you ask?  Well, an impressive number of people whose extensive hands on computing experience allowed them not much more than to easily dominate their friends in Quake, were hired to participate in overseeing corporate networks after completing their MCSE certifications in a few weeks.  The biggest backlash of this is a widespread lack of proper security planning and implementation over much of the internet:

"IT professionals and trainers are blaming insufficient security training offered under the nationwide Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer program for contributing to the spread of "Code Red" and other damaging viruses."
Dan Verton, CNN, August 14, 2001

The biggest mistake made by both those who relied on getting certified to find work and those who did the hiring was confusing the real meaning of the certification, being certified meant and still means that a person managed to pass some relatively simple exams, nothing more, it does not in any way assure a certain level of expertise or experience.

The result of this madness?

The number of unemployed MCSEs should soon rival with the number of the employed variety.  The number of expensive mistakes made by inexperienced, unknowledgeable and poorly trained MCSEs is unimaginable.  The cost in terms of lost productivity, data loss, and other damage resulting from these employees' mistakes will probably soon warrant its own heading on corporate balance sheets. 

The result of having over 400,000 MCSEs in the United States:
The following is a comparison of the number of job listings for the Los Angeles area and under different skill headings from computerjobs.com (10/02/01)
Heading: # of Jobs Listed:
MCSE 4
Java 38
Cobol 20
DB2 18
Some additional cheery numbers:
Searches for the keyword MCSE in the employment sections of various newspapers and online job listing sites for the San Diego/LA area on 10/02/01:
Source: # of hits:
Union Tribune (San Diego's main publication) 2
Monster.com 3
Dice.com 2
Hotjobs.com 2
The lack of new positions for MCSEs as compared to those knowledgeable in both current technologies such as Java and even legacy technologies such as Cobol or DB2 goes a long way to show that the not only is the MCSE not all that impressive, but also that nearly half a million MCSEs must be plenty enough.
And back for more certifications we go...
MCSE / MCSE+I CCNA or higher Frame Relay / ATM knowledge (DLCI, PVC structures and designs) AMI-D4/B8ZS-esF Channelized / Non-Channelized knowledge Sniffer / Radcom LAN/WAN / VoIP Analyzers HP Open View / Cisco Works / Cajun View / NetIQ Chariot IP-Based

(Computerjobs.com) List of required skills for a recently advertised $40K/yr position.

What keeps the failed and overcrowded MCSE certification program going?:

How can a program so heavily flawed, so void of real value, and so expensive survive?

While unemployment in the IT sector grows faster than we can keep track of it, while ineffective certification programs, such as the MCSE cert., are increasingly being recognized for what they really are and as companies are starting to realize the losses they suffer from hiring poorly trained certification-brandishing applicants, MCSE classes are packed.

Much of the reason for this is the incredible volume of propaganda that surrounds this program and others like it, all parties involved that stand to profit from the continuation of this madness keep applying pressure to avoid serious interruptions to the certification frenzy.  

Microsoft and co.:

It is certain that Microsoft uses their many certification programs as tools to lock customers into its specific products and platforms, this is also true of Novell, Oracle and Cisco of course.  This effect comes directly into play when companies seeking to upgrade existing servers and workstations or to add new systems, ask for their IT staff's advice as to operating system and other hardware choices, most employees undoubtedly select whatever platform they are either familiar with or certified to manage.

Is Microsoft responding to the current lack of opportunity in the IT industry since its certifications and the rush to qualify a staggering number of people significantly contributed to the problem? 
And is Microsoft making the required changes to prevent people who are not qualified, not experienced or who have simply not bothered to study from passing the exams and receiving their certifications anyway?
No.  There seems to be no move to try and limit the number of centers Microsoft certifies to teach these classes, and there seems to be no intention on Microsoft's part to either expand on the requirements for receiving the certification or to increase the difficulty and change the format of the tests themselves. 

A short-lived sense of relief came over me when I noticed that Microsoft had added yet another certification to their repertoire, the MCSA, which might have refuted everything I've just said if it were a much more intensive and demanding revision of the MCSE certification as it might have resulted in a reasonable number of better trained and qualified people filling the positions that still exist in this IT mess, but in fact, it's quite the opposite, a less demanding program with fewer exams and therefore a greater output of half-qualified and largely inexperienced future job seekers... a fantastic idea.

Testing centers:

Testing centers, which have been established in locations ranging from technical schools to flight schools (114 centers in California), stand to lose a considerable steady source of income if the continuous flow of certification seekers somehow diminished.  The majority of the 400,000+ MCSEs out there have spent $100 on each of the 6 or 7 exams required to obtain their certification, that translates into a total of  over $240 million which does not take into account the other 100s of thousands of people who took tests to accomplish certifications such as MCP, CCNA, MCSD, CNE, CNA...

Exam prep. material, Transcender is smiling from ear to ear. 

A DVD-ROM might have the capacity to hold the list of publications which include the word "MCSE" in their titles.  But we'll leave publishers alone after having simply said that there are hundreds if not thousands of books published with the only and specific purpose of preparing students to pass the MCSE exams, and the number of copies sold must be quite impressive indeed.

Let's instead focus on an interesting and fortunate company in the exam prep. area, the Transcender Corporation.
Transcender pretty much has a monopoly on the practice test (or mock exam) industry when it comes to many certifications, including the MCSE.  The practice tests provided are shockingly similar to the actual tests, right down to the format and questions themselves, and cost between $99 and $198 each with most costing $149.  The popularity of these practice tests is quite impressive, and because students realize that they are extremely effective, Transcender stands to potentially pocket around $800 to $900 from each student.
The downside for employers and employees alike is that someone who spends enough time (a few days) practicing these tests in order to pretty much memorize the questions and answers, will more than likely pass the actual exam whether he or she has bothered to open a book or has any skills or knowledge on the topic at all.  
Whether the fact that so many unqualified people manage to obtain their certifications in this manner should be blamed on Transcender, Microsoft or anyone at all, the result is the same, the MCSE certification loses much of its value in the eyes of both employers and those certified, as it should.

Online job listing services:

Job listing sites rely not only on job postings (the volume of which has tremendously diminished) for their income, but also on job seekers' visits in order to justify their banner prices to advertisers.  Newly certified and inexperienced applicants provide these sites with a healthy traffic volume and in response to the current size of the unemployed IT workers pool, Monster.com has recently launched an advertising campaign in order to draw some traffic to their site from the crowd of 'I can't believe I made a mistake this large' burger-flipping MCSEs out there.  These advertising campaigns, not only bring job seekers in for a visit, but also send the wrong message to those who are considering a move from their current industry to the IT sector by giving them the impression that these sites are just overflowing with opportunities, nothing could be further from the truth.

Job seekers:

Those who have taken and passed the exams required to receive their MCSE certification and who relied and still rely on it to open doors for them despite their utter lack of previous experience or even solid understanding of the topics they were tested on are quite happy with the way the MCSE requirements and exams are currently structured.  Many of them, along with the schools that taught them, frowned at Microsoft's attempt to discourage others from following in their footsteps by switching from straight forward multiple choice exams to an adaptive format that respond to correct answers by asking tougher questions and vice versa.  The simplicity of the exams, the ability to pass them by simply practicing on or memorizing mock tests, and the large demand for IT personnel up to about 2 years ago combined with the disproportionately high salaries enjoyed in the IT industry at that time made it all too attractive an offer to resist, even for those who weren't all that motivated by the industry as a whole.

Certified and non-certified training centers:

And then of course, there are the variety of technical education centers founded around nothing else but teaching classes aimed at helping students pass the exams required to obtain various certifications.  This very specialized industry racks in an impressive amount of money and the volume of misinformation they feed to their existing and prospective students would be amusing if it didn't rob so many of them out of their money to no avail.  Having taught over 400,000+ MCSEs alone in the last few years, this industry has grown at an alarming rate, between technical colleges, specialized training facilities, boot camp organizations and all the way up to state and private colleges and universities, the income derived from charging students or their employers between $2,000 and $10,000 each for MCSE certification classes translates into revenues in the $800 million to $4 billion range, and this over last 5 years at the most, since the fever began.  What is the standard response received by disillusioned recently certified students who have either not found work or not received any type of raise or promotion from their certification?  More certifications.  And although this eventually might lead to a skilled workforce of people who actually stick to it instead of calling it quits, it isn't for that reason that schools recommend this approach of accumulating a bag full of certifications.

The most alarming example of just how much money was flat out stolen from individuals and companies who fell victim to the MCSE disaster is the concept of the MCSE 'boot camp'.

MCSE boot camps: theft in its purest form.
The concept of the MCSE boot camp is just baffling.  For an employer or an individual to see some kind of value in learning what for many is a completely new skill or even a chance at a new career in 12 days is just disappointing.  The mere idea that you can obtain a supposedly difficult certification in that amount of time devalues it tremendously.
A couple of exams, a few long walks on the beach and $7000 later they send you home with your MCSE and a complimentary oatmeal cookie.
If you listen carefully at night, you can hear the boot camp 'graduates' or their employers pulling their hair out slowly to maximize the pain.
Excerpt from MCSEclasses.com:
"Learn your MCSE material at many vacation destinations throughout the country! MCSE Boot Camps and MCDBA Boot Camps run for 12 days (mornings-evenings with afternoons off in national parks and beaches so you can enjoy the day)!" Price: $6495, airfare and lodging included.
A few less and more expensive choices:
Company # Days Hotel
Incl.
 Price 
HOTT 15 YES  $4485 
Ameriteach 12 NO  $7495 
CED Solutions 14 YES  $6495 
Global Knowledge 14 NO  $8995 
Northwest Computer Training 13 YES  $6599 
The Training Camp 12 YES  $7495 
New Horizons 15 NO  $6375 

The training center industry has in fact grown so large, that it is now increasingly hiring a larger percentage of the people it itself has trained than most other industries!  ITT Technical Institute recently ran the ad below seeking to fill an instructor position, it was 1 out of a total of 4 ads under the MCSE heading in the Los Angeles section of computerjobs.com.


CNS Instructor


Looking for a position that will give you the opportunity to enhance the lives of others? We truly believe that the future of our nation's workforce is being developed right here and are looking for people who would like to be part of the team building this future ... 

Required Skills:
3 years of exp. in systems administration, network architecture, GUI, NT, TCP/IP, Linux, LAN/WAN, or Novell and a bachelor's degree, we would like to hear from you. An MCSE, MCP, CNE, CCNA, CCNP, and/or CNA is desirable

ITT Technical Institute Torrance, CA Full Time 11/1/2001

Employers:

Probably most disappointing of all, is the fact that employers also fall victim to the certification hysteria, and those who know quite well how over glorified the program is are no exception.  Since the program's inception, companies who realized that it was often exploited by inexperienced applicants seeking to get in the door routinely tested these applicants through short oral or written quizzes to try and weed out the more obvious impostors, but even those who are convinced of the program's lack of real value are more than happy to advertise their staff's various certifications in order to secure business for themselves.  Just as nationwide automotive maintenance and repair chains regularly boast that all of their mechanics are ASE certified, so do large technical support and other IT consulting firms when it comes to their employees' MCSE and other certifications.  This fact forces companies in that sector, whether they believe in the certification process or see it for what it is, to send many of their employees to acquire these certifications in order to instill some false sense of confidence in their customers' minds.  This behavior gives the certification frenzy cycle some additional momentum, and manages to convince job seekers that there indeed is some real value to the MCSE program.

Conclusion:

Obtaining an MCSE certification does not have to be a meaningless endeavor, and there are those who go through the process for the explicit purpose of learning the material they need to be familiar with instead of simply trying to pass the exams as soon as possible.  In that sense, the MCSE certification can be a positive step forward for those who truly wish to have it be just that and who recognize that they will have to learn more on their own than that which is required to pass the exams.  However, you can't have a program be successful and meaningful and warrant the creation of a multi-billion dollar industry, if it results in the certification of people who may have actually made an effort to learn something and of others who just aimed at passing a handful of exams to get it behind them.  This is the basic flaw of the MCSE certification process, the ease with which it can be be taken advantage of by some diminishes its overall value and devalues the efforts of those who take the program seriously, this is why a complete restructuring of the program and of its requirements is not only a good idea, but is actually owed to those who wish to join it for the right reasons.

In the minds of many employers and MCSEs, the certification has become nothing short of a joke with the many parties profiting from it trying to keep the laughter down and therefore the backing needed to incite a thorough reexamination of the program in order to turn it into what is was originally supposed to be, and never was, simply isn't there.  After all, I too believe that the program was originally supposed to result in individuals being certified as people who have actually acquired some solid, thorough and meaningful knowledge of a particular product or service (in this case, Microsoft's Windows NT or 2000 based networking technologies).

The best possible way to get out of this mess is to discourage those who are not truly committed to learning the skills required to do the job they are supposed to be training for.  And the only way to do this is to rebuild the MCSE program from scratch, no part of its current format should survive this revision except for the original concept which I hope was based around correctly and meaningfully teaching the skills needed by those who desire to enter the IT industry's networking field and certifying their knowledge by requiring that they pass a series of rigorous examinations after having spent a required amount of class time, and having covered specific topics, in certified training centers and universities.

Instead of this restructuring, we seem to be rapidly heading for a situation where more total income will be generated by training, testing and advertising to MCSE certified and certification bound individuals than employers stand to profit from the hiring of these people as a whole, and as ridiculous and illogical as that may sound, the propaganda generated by the variety of individuals and companies that stand to gain from such a situation is loud enough to keep the silliness going for a while yet.

Is there any good news you ask?  Of course there is, the Silicon Valley housing shortage problem has improved considerably, and if you decide to move to the area I'm convinced that your realtor will throw in a couple of MCSEs to paint the place.

 
[Embedding used to support tables]


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial
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To: mafree
Do you (or anyone else) recommend some kind of Java certification?

You should be careful about asking Microsoft employees like innocent about 'Java'. He will *not* have a nice opinion.

Altho if you don't like programming, Java likely isn't for you, since it's a programming language.

41 posted on 11/07/2001 7:14:37 AM PST by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr; innocentbystander
Thanks for responding. I forgot about Java vs. Microsoft but I think IB will forgive me.
42 posted on 11/07/2001 7:27:24 AM PST by mafree
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To: nina0113
If that MCSE really is so bad as to not know subnet mask, loopback testing or basic cabling there's a very high probability he obtained his certification fradulently. You can contact MS, they'll take a report from management and, if what you say really happened, they'll yank his certification. Imo, he's a disaster waiting to happen.

Cheating is rampant in most of the more popular certifications via 'study guides' like Cheetsheets and Troytec that basically have the entire test and corresponding answers. It really burns me that people can get or maintain jobs that way. That's why I declined to go after the MCSE, it's such a bogus certification and so many people cheat to get it that I don't want it on my resume. From what I've discerned many businesses have an overall negative opinion of the certification.

43 posted on 11/07/2001 7:27:26 AM PST by Justa
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To: Clintons Are White Trash
My son recently got his MCSE. I was amazed at how quickly and easily he passed the tests - studying the book a day or so before the test and finishing well before the time given. (Is it that easy or is he just that smart :) ?

I studied from a CD-ROM set for about 2 weeks, and then went and took the six tests in 3 days at $100 each. From the time I got my course materials to my certification was less than 3 weeks at a cost of about $900. At the time a friend of mine also took the tests with me. He "studied" by doing nothing more than taking the practice tests provdided in the course materials. By the time two weeks was up, he had memorized the answers to all of the practice questions, which in reality WAS the test questions. Like I said above, the MCSE cert. has been good for me, and I no doubt make more money because of it. My only gripe with it is, like I stated above, that the course material, as well as the testing, is not a realistic indicator of how well one knows the systems he becomes certified in. Your son is probably naturally inclined towards computers, and that is the most valuable asset he can have in this business. He would do just as well without the cert. in his actual job, but that little piece of paper seems to mean alot to potential employers.

I was interviewing for a VERY high paying position in a large city about 2yrs. ago. It was a 6 month contract, and I decided that I could handle the drive as well as the extended time away from home for the amount of money the job paid. My first interview was with a human resources type, and she was very professional and asked all about my education and certifications and so forth. The second interview was with the IT mgr of the company, and he asked me this question: "How do you feel your recent MCSE certification has prepared you for handling the day to day maintenace and implementation of new hardware and software?" My response: "I don't feel that it has helped me, as a matter of fact, if I didn't have it I could do just as good of a job here, but if I didn't have it, you and I wouldn't be talking right now". The human resources type was visibly aghast, but the IT mgr just laughed and said "right answer, when can you start?" That job ended up lasting about 9 mos, and I still keep in contact with the IT mgr at that company.

44 posted on 11/07/2001 7:30:31 AM PST by Space Wrangler
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To: nina0113
Sounds like that dude cheated on his tests. Anyone who starts replacing hardware before making sure he can't ping that workstation is a fraud. I've seen it more times than you might think. Working independantly for several years, it amazed me at the people who considered themselves "system administrators", and worse yet, their employers did too. Some of these people shouldn't have been turned loose on a home PC, yet they were somehow in charge of whole networks. Scary. I got lots of stories about incompetents in this field!
45 posted on 11/07/2001 7:38:17 AM PST by Space Wrangler
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To: Brookhaven
Most major business applications are somehow involved with a database. The various hot languages and applications come and go, but databases live on. 20 years ago there was a big demand for database experts, today there is a demand for database experts, and for as far as anyone can see there will be a demand for database experts.

Different database systems often have their own host language, but almost all of them can be accessed via SQL. Its a default language, and you're expected to know it if you are working with databases.

Amen to all that.

After all the pretty user interfaces are designed, someone wil say, "Can we get a count of page hits grouped by five-minute intervals" or something like that.

SQL has fed my family fo 20 years, through C and Informix to ASP and SQL Server.

46 posted on 11/07/2001 7:46:54 AM PST by js1138
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To: Space Wrangler
I am an MCSE, and though I'm not using it 100% on my job, I found the training valuable.

I went through a local ATEC for coursework, read a lot of books, and just started playing with equipment to get hands-on experience.

I've seen some truly worthless MCSEs out there--they always went to a boot camp.

47 posted on 11/07/2001 7:47:54 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: mafree
Java has (really cool) opportunities for distributed applications but it's heavy in programming, with no onsite administration. From what I understand the deployment path goes from the coding shop to the customer via ready-made applets.

As others have said database management is in high demand now. Businesses will fight tooth-and-nail to protect their databases and this take priority to any operating system they might use. Looking forward I see the biggest growth opportunities in Linux particularly now that IBM offers a Linux NOS for it's mainframes. This way mid-to-large size companies can put their mainframes on Linux and run their distributed neworks with the appopriate Linux distrubutions for each level. Imo, this is a 'really cool' solution and will save a Tremendous amount of money, time and energy going forward. Intel recently switched to Linux and estimated their savings for the first year alone would be $200 mil.

When there's a problem with a MS OS there's maybe 15 people in Redmond, WA to locate, troubleshoot and patch the problem. When there's a problem with Linux there's literally 10s-of-thousands of programmers worldwide to find and fix the problem. Furthermore, they'll do it in the shortest time possible and provide the fix to apply across all affected platforms and versions. This is one of the main benefits of open source vs. closed source OSes. Linux people can i.d. and fix their systems as a community whereas MS people have to wait to see what Uncle Bill will do for them.

48 posted on 11/07/2001 7:50:51 AM PST by Justa
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To: kd5cts
Linux certification is a trial by fire involving dead chickens, bondage, and high-explosives. If you survive, you are either certified or certifiable.

if you giveaway ALL the secrets, we'll never get a head

FWIW I am a RHCE

49 posted on 11/07/2001 7:54:23 AM PST by pikachu
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To: Justa
Thanks for the response. I do have a Linux book and disk but haven't installed it yet. Should you do that on a separate system or can it work on a system that already has W98?
50 posted on 11/07/2001 7:56:30 AM PST by mafree
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To: Poohbah
I went through a local ATEC for coursework, read a lot of books, and just started playing with equipment to get hands-on experience.

There are worlds of diffrence in the kinds of training and coursework you can get. Mine was from a $299 CD kit, and the 6 tests were $100 each. I have $900 in certification. Playing with the equipment is the most direct route to knowledge in this field. No book or test is going to even come close to giving you the kind of knowledge you will learn from actually doing it. As for your training, you probably had better training than me, but in the end, we are both MCSE's with no distinction between us. That demonstrates how easily someone can get this certification without actually knowing what he is doing, or worse yet, by cheating, which happens more often than you would think.

51 posted on 11/07/2001 8:00:54 AM PST by Space Wrangler
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To: Dominic Harr
Agreed (I do technical pre-sales for a large J2EE app server vendor). One point: it's not like there's a monolithic "IT job block". There are various areas of specialization (e.g., programmer; architect; sys admin; DBA; network architect; security; etc.) I agree the M$FT certifications are meaningless outside the admin area, and not highly regarded within admin.

My advice (I've been in IT since 1982) is to figure out an area of specialization that's a good match for your interests, aptitude, and job potential, then seek the best training and experience you can find in that area, with certification being an afterthought (for beginners). If you've got some experience and want to pad your resume for advancement, a more advanced and targeted certification (i.e., certified java programmer/developer; certain security certs; etc.) may be helpful.

52 posted on 11/07/2001 8:15:05 AM PST by constable tom
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To: Justa
The article was as tedious as the CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) course I sat through for one interminable week.

There are better ways to learn how to program a router than paying someone $1000 and watching him flip viewgraphs for four and a half days. I imagine the MSCEs are just as bad. It's as big a ripoff as all those VCR repair schools that popped up in the late 70's promising ambitious young men fame and fortune in the lucrative field of... well... you know.

53 posted on 11/07/2001 8:15:48 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Justa
Nicely done article. I want to comfort a few readers before they jump off the Bay Bridge or volunteer for Hillary's presidential campaign.

I came to Phoenix at the age of 50 with almost no technical knowledge of computers. I have combined community college courses, self-study, certification, and two boot camps for my current level of knowledge. I needed more income and flexibility.

Today someone offered me a very large sum to teach Linux/Unix courses. It would be corporate training - travel involved. This is not going to work out overnight, but I think it will be a good deal for me. What would I teach? Unix, Cisco, that sort of thing.

Whoever gave advice about training in databases is correct. That will always be a good job. A lot of women seem to take to it, also.

I am always wary about people saying a language is hot. As someone wrote, hot languages come and go. I was at one meeting where a guy bragged he would always have COBOL work. Now it is easy to find unemployed COBOL people. Y2K is past. Get over it.

Micro$oft certifications are a reflection of the company. I did some training and found it incredibly boring. I decided not to do anything with M$. I did pass the CCNA.

The two best certification tracks are Cisco and Oracle. However, I tell my students at the community college - "Be the best in your area and they will seek you out." That is what many people overlook. It does not take long to figure out who really knows something. The person with no degree and no certs can make $100,000 teaching - if he knows his material and teaches well.

The saddest case I ran into was a young man who just gave a bootcamp $7,000 to get 7 certs. (What a deal!) He did not have any idea what books he should buy to start. He didn't know where to begin. I think it was cruel to take that much cash from someone and give him no guidance.

I paid $500 for a CCNA bootcamp review. It was well worth it. The going rate now is about $3,000.

Sorry to ramble. If someone wants to be employed, I would suggest three areas for long-term job security: Linux/UNIX (fastest track right now), Cisco, and Oracle. An A+ certification is a good idea all around. I believe it is considered a basic high school diploma in computer science.

Another track to consider is becoming a master of several applications. Someone who can do Excel, Access, and Word can find employment. A real expert can deal with Excel/Lotus problems, etc. Corporate teaching can pay a lot. Some other applications worth learning are: Dreamweaver, MS Project, and PowerPoint.

Someone can specialize in graphics, PhotoShop, Adobe applications. Once again, the skilled person will find work looking for him.

My next certification will probably be Linux+ from Comptia.

54 posted on 11/07/2001 8:44:29 AM PST by Chemnitz
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To: Justa
BTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
55 posted on 11/07/2001 9:05:29 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Justa
One day, I had no MCSE.

A year later, I had one.

I got a job.

It paid THREE TIMES AS MUCH as my pre-MCSE job, glory to God.

Tell me again about what a waste that was?

Dan

56 posted on 11/07/2001 9:09:35 AM PST by BibChr
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To: mafree
It'll work with '98/FAT32 but you'll have to use Linux's install partitioning utility or Windows' to make partitions for Linux to go on. For the linux distro. I'd get the latest version of the distro best suited to you. I recommend Mandrake for 'newbies'. It's easy, has a ton of features, is free and compatable with most hardware. If you pre-partition from windows using something like Partition Magic just make one large partition for Linux and make it a primary partition. Then use the Linux partitioning tool to set the linux partition. Here's my partitioning advice gleaned from 'Linux Gurus':

-Make 3 '/' (root) partitions = 1GB with the initial '/' mounted on the first. Name the other two something like 'root2' and 'root3'. This way you'll have root partitions for installing other Linux distros to evaluate how they handle your database and programs. "Yeah", you can run all your same data and programs in various Linux distributions by doing this. I recommend using the JFS:Reiser file system. It's a journalised FS so it keeps malware script from 'worming' it's way onto the HD. Hackers like using Windows to load linux viruses and vice-versa to get people who dual boot between the two. Your windows virus scanner won't detect a Linux virus aimed at your ext2 Linux drive and the opposite holds true of Linux and your FAT32 drive.

-Next make a Linux Swap partition and set it to atleast 2x system RAM.

-Next make a /home partition. This should be about 20% of the drive or 5 GB for 3 distros and a few users. More users or distros will require a larger partition.

-Next make the /usr partition. You'll want to make this as large as possible since this is where most Users' files go.

-The last 2 are optional depending upon if you'll be running a Linux server. /var is for the server files and should be sized accordingly. And /stuff is the default Guru name for everything they want to save outside of /usr.

If you're new to Linux the best advice might be to install a second HD, make it the boot drive, install Linux to it using the Grub bootloader being sure to mount the Windows drive during install at the partitioning screen. You have to do that manually, just by clicking the hdc tab (2nd HD) and clicking on the blue windows partition then selecting 'mount'. It's not done by default. >>>??? If you do it this way you'll boot to the Grub bootloader and it will allow you to select between Windows and Linux.

Now if you upgrade to XP then it's different. XP won't allow you to change drive letters or controller assignment. If you do it won't load so that new, snazzy 7200rpm drive will be the D:\ drive. That's not a problem for Grub. It just means when you load Linux you're gonna want to create around a 600MB FAT32 partition as the last partition on the new HD so when you boot to Windows you can switch your VMM to there. That way VMM runs off the fastest drive and is on a seperate controller from the OS which = more speed and stability for '98.

XP is pretty cool, I'm using Pro now. It's fast and easy and as malware like sircam, nimda and codered have brought the NT4 kernals (NT, '98) to their knees NT5 has protected memory and file systems similar (but somewhat inferior -no flames please) to Linux with JFS.

57 posted on 11/07/2001 9:23:41 AM PST by Justa
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To: Justa
Thanks a lot for all that useful info.
58 posted on 11/07/2001 11:03:54 AM PST by mafree
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To: Justa
Is the University of Phoenix IT degree program any good?
59 posted on 11/07/2001 2:42:28 PM PST by Tony in Hawaii
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator


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