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To: Petrosius

It’s been going on since 2014. Check the OSCE reports. And human rights NGOs.

Amnesty International report, 2015:

“The reported violations include an attack on a humanitarian aid line, a market place in Donestk and indiscriminate shelling of homes and streets in Debaltseve.”

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/02/ukraine-horror-civilian-bloodshed-indiscriminate-attacks/

Extremely pro-NATO HRW even says so. Report from 2014:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians

There were reports of Ukrainian attacks killing civilians in Donetsk last month ... It’s been nonstop for years.


17 posted on 12/26/2023 10:51:25 AM PST by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd
OSCE reports don't support your claim.

Before Russia's 2022 invasion only a few civilians per year were injured or killed in Ukraine from actual fighting or shelling. And many of them were Ukrainians hit by shelling from Donetsk. Most were victims of unexploded ordnance.

But thanks for showing us you are just another Russian propagandist.

30 posted on 12/26/2023 12:15:17 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: CatHerd
Do you have anything more recent than 2019 to back that up? Haven't you realised yet that the mutts who peddle the "ongoing genocide" narrative were literally making it up?

Even the FSB backed DNR Ombudsman from Donetsk said as much - month by month, year by year. In December 2020, December 2021 AND in January 2022 they had access to their own body counts. The result of all the collated figures in all the monthly and annual reports collected by Russia's own proxies is shown in the diagram below:

The 2020 source data is included in an annual report, and here it is. (Opens in new window)

2020 ANNUAL REPORT of the Human Rights Ombudsman in the Donetsk People’s Republic

Pertinent pages are 20-25, so the above link jumps to page 20.
Excerpts from page 21:

     It is worth noting that the signing of peace agreements helped
     to reduce the intensity of hostilities. Thus, the number of deaths
     among the residents of the Donetsk People's Republic decreased by 
     9 times in 2017 compared to 2014, in 2019 – almost by 17 times, 
     in 2020 – by 50 times...

     At the same time, a decrease in casualties among the civilian 
     population was facilitated by the unlimited truce announced in 
     Donbass on 21 July 2019.

     Since 1 January 2020, as a result of the armed conflict in the 
     territory of the Donetsk People's Republic, 44 people have been 
     killed (Diagram 6).

The 2021 data that should've gone into another annual summary PDF was so unfavorable to Russian propaganda that it was left obfuscated inside the monthly reports, never making it into an annual summary.

Example 1: Dec 2021 monthly report | ombudsman-dnr.ru

     Within the period between 1 January and 30 December 2021, in the 
     territory of the DPR, 7 civilians and 70 servicemen of the 
     Republic died ... 

Seventy seven dead people (70 of them combatants) in the whole 12 month period, across hundreds of miles of contested territory, is not a genocide, is it. It's barely even a bus crash. Also, they deliberately don't say who killed the civilians. Example 2: Jan 2022 monthly report | ombudsman-dnr.ru

     CASES OF INJURIES AND TRAUMAS OF VARYING SEVERITY AS A RESULT OF 
     ARMED AGGRESSION BY UKRAINE IN THE TERRITORY OF THE DPR FROM 
     JANUARY 01, 2022 TO JANUARY 28, 2022 
     CIVILIANS: 0 
     SERVICEMEN OF THE REPUBLIC: 2 
     IN TOTAL: 2 

     DEATH TOLL AS A RESULT OF ARMED AGGRESSION BY UKRAINE IN THE 
     TERRITORY OF THE DPR FROM JANUARY  01, 2022 TO JANUARY 21, 2022 
     CIVILIANS: 0
     SERVICEMEN: 1 

There's no equivalent data summarised in the Feb 2022 monthly report because the DNR didn't want to advertise the difference between the single digit deaths in that month pre-invasion and the multi-digit numbers after it. Doing so would've conclusively proved that the invasion on a "genocide" pretext was a false flag.

All we've ever seen from Russia and its stupid ass vranyo gobblers in support of either claim is unevidenced statement after unevidenced statement without a single atom of evidence EVER provided to back it up. Russia's "peacekeeping" argument for military intervention in Ukraine was strongest in 2014-2016, weakened in 2019, and was dead and buried by Jan 2021. Who says so? Well, Putin's own FSB in occupied Ukraine, the Wagner commanders, Girkin, and even Putin's own "human rights ombudsman" in Donetsk which has been maintaining the body count constantly since it was set up.

Basically, the only people who ever said there was a genocide against ethnic Russians in Ukraine were Russian politicians, Russian empire-fetishising fantasists, and carpet-bagging chancers like Stremousov and Pushilin. Not only were they lying all along, they are never even asked by their extremely useful idiot friends in the West to explain why it is that all the evidence that even Russia itself has collected suggests that they're all lying.

43 posted on 12/27/2023 6:19:00 AM PST by MalPearce ("You see, but you do not observe" - Holmes to Watson, A Scandal in Bohemia)
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