Posted on 10/08/2020 7:36:09 AM PDT by Kaslin
Pence is a deceptively strong debater who would have been tough to beat even on a good night, but Harris' comparatively weaker substance combined with a frankly awful style did not help her out.
The vice presidential debate between Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., and Vice President Mike Pence was more traditional and less raucous than last week’s debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. That debate was a three-way interruption fest marked by Biden losing track of his thoughts and Trump clumsily returning to slights that had occurred 25 minutes earlier.
This debate was less exciting, a reminder of what politics was like before Trump came onto the scene. Still, it had its moments that bolstered each campaign’s strongest arguments. For Pence, that meant a frequent recursion to first principles and first-term successes. For Harris, that meant a focus on coronavirus and negative descriptions of the Republican Party and its president.
Here are a few quick takeaways on how it went down.
Mike Pence, a former congressman and talk radio host, started off strong and just kept getting stronger. He clearly came prepared for the debate. He had a ready recall of facts and figures to bolster his points. He nailed the questions he wanted to answer and deflected on the questions he preferred not to answer.
While he let several zingers fly, he stayed calm and steady, pushing back at what he perceived as unduly false statements but without the constant interruptions of the Trump-Biden debate. He spoke slowly and left few cards on the table unplayed. He was nice, firm, decent, and likable.
Pence’s weakest points were when he was on defense about the global pandemic gripping the country. However, he came into the debate prepared to lay out how a Trump-Pence vision for America is better than the one put forth by Biden and Harris and he accomplished that consistently throughout the debate.
He made a strong case for Trump’s foreign policy being effective and Biden’s being decades of failure. He had Kamala Harris on the ropes about whether she and Biden would raise taxes on Americans on their first day in office. He effectively showed the country her refusal to openly support court-packing, a position she previously supported.
The conventional wisdom heading into the debate was that Harris, a former prosecutor, would obliterate the nice and meek Pence. It was never clear why that conventional wisdom formed, considering she performed poorly in the Democratic primary debates. She left that contest before the Iowa caucuses and her only clear win was when she accused her now running mate Joe Biden of being a virulent racist. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii put the California senator on the ropes for her criminal justice record.
Having said that, Harris had a very strong start to the VP debate, with a rehearsed but very effective answer about the Trump administration’s failures to handle the coronavirus epidemic the way she and Biden would. Pressed for details on what she’d do differently, she began to struggle and never quite regained a strong footing.
Both candidates declined to answer questions, usually effectively. But her refusal to answer repeated questions about whether she and her running mate plan to pack the Supreme Court in retaliation for Republicans appointing a new justice in a constitutional manner was uncomfortable.
She also lied frequently, and perhaps in ways that were too easily caught. She lied about Abraham Lincoln, she repeated the completely false Charlottesville hoax, and she falsely claimed Trump called COVID a hoax. She tried to defend Biden on fracking but did so in a way that reminded voters of how he’s been all over the map on whether he zealously seeks to ban fracking or definitely does not want to.
She feigned outrage when Pence said he hoped Democrats wouldn’t engage in religious attacks on Amy Coney Barrett, as they have already done. But Harris herself tried to impose a religious test on a nominee for being a member of the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic lay group.
As soon as the debate was over and everyone knew that Pence did well, all the pundits said it didn’t matter because vice-presidential debates “don’t matter.” While it’s true that the vice presidential slot isn’t the most important thing on people’s minds in a presidential election, these debates frequently matter.
One of the undervalued contributors to Trump’s stunning 2016 victory was the masterful performance Pence had in his debate against Hillary Clinton running mate Tim Kaine, who was admittedly a bit of a disaster. In that debate, which was focused on, what else, the bad orange man, Pence explained why Republican voters supported him, forcing a debate on policy and away from the personality questions that so riled journalists.
I saw someone on Twitter describe Pence as the yin to Trump’s yang and there is a truth in that. Many pundits have never understood how the traditional Republican voter could ever vote for Trump, much less be so unfailingly loyal to him. Pence is the embodiment of the answer to that question. He articulates a Trump-supporting traditional Republicanism that many voters hold. And it’s a compelling and persuasive answer for millions of people purposely ignored by media coverage and its discussions of the 2020 election.
Nancy Pelosi biographer Susan Page moderated the debate. Liberal commentators accused Pence of speaking too long and Page certainly kept cutting him off, but Rick Klein of ABC News said that Pence spoke for 35:22 relative to Harris’ time of 38:48. CNN claimed the two spoke about the same amount of time.
Billed as a debate, the evening was more a parallel interview of each candidate. Americans might be better served by witnessing an actual debate between candidates.
That is particularly true in an environment where the media are functionally running the Biden campaign and refusing to ask questions that the Trump campaign would like to see asked. Harris was asked about whether she and Biden plan to pack the court, but only because Pence pressed her on the issue.
It was Pence who brought up Biden’s involvement in the false and damaging Russia collusion hoax that the country was put through over the last several years. Pence raised the issue of impeachment — one of the only legislative accomplishments of the Democratic Party this Congress, albeit one that clearly backfired.
Nevertheless, the range of topics was fairly good.
One of the problems with the media being so uniformly in support of the Democratic Party and its goals is that nearly all the questions posed in debates are loaded with false assumptions. The first question to Pence, for instance, was that the U.S. death toll was worse than “almost” any other “wealthy” country on earth. The U.S. case fatality rate of 2.8 percent is below Italy, United Kingdom, Belgium, Sweden, Canada, France, Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland, and Germany, something that the media rarely mention.
When Page asked Harris about whether she’d take a vaccine, she neglected to mention that Harris had made anti-vaccination remarks weeks ago.
Page couched a discussion of the economy in a claim that the economy is not recovering. “Vice President Pence, your administration has been predicting a rapid and robust recovery, but the latest economic report suggests that’s not happening.” In fact, the latest estimate from the Atlanta Federal Reserve is that third-quarter GDP growth will be more than 35 percent, the largest in history.
“Do you believe that climate change poses an existential threat?” was the general tenor of the questions. She highlighted that “President Trump” blames China for the coronavirus, as if it’s in dispute that the coronavirus came from and was mishandled by China. Instead of asking Harris for her support of abortion through all nine months of pregnancy, and for suing nuns to force them to pay for abortions, Page went with a far friendlier “Would you want your home state to enact no restrictions on access to abortion?”
Page didn’t ask Harris about supporting a bail-out fund for rioters.
Most egregiously, a question about the peaceful transfer of power was posed as if this was a concern for Trump, even though it is the Resistance who, by definition, have fought the 2016 election’s legitimacy for nearly four years now.
Pence was asked tough questions about things Trump has said or done. That is appropriate and good. It is also appropriate and necessary for Biden and Harris to be asked tough questions about their views. That is where the media have completely abdicated responsibility in favor of their preferred 2020 approach of campaign advocacy.
As Ari Fleischer wrote, “Page asked Qs re some of Pres. Trump’s most controversial statements. Fair enough. But she didn’t ask about Biden’s you ain’t black statement; blacks aren’t diverse; getting arrested in So. Africa; flip-flopping on fracking; packing the court or Harris comparing ICE to the KKK.”
One of the most surprising things about last night’s debate was how Harris struggled to keep cool, particularly at the beginning. A split-screen showed both candidates for much of the debate. Even when a huge fly landed on Pence’s mane, to the distraction of many, he kept the same calm demeanor.
Harris bobbed her head, shook her head, laughed oddly, sneered, and generally exuded smug vibes. Controlling facial expressions on television is difficult, but it’s important for the medium.
The campaign appeared to try to explain her debate defeat by claiming that Pence had “mansplained” to her, a weak retort under the best of circumstances. But following a debate where everyone witnessed how condescending and smug Harris came off, particularly without merit, it was an explanation that failed to land outside of media echo chambers.
Pence is a deceptively strong debater who would have been tough to beat even on a good night, but Harris’ comparatively weaker substance combined with a frankly awful style did not help her out.
Following the debate, many of the media hosts who serve as Biden/Harris surrogates started saying, without evidence, that Pence had “mansplained” to Harris or that women are held to different standards than men on the debate stage, or that criticism of her smugness was sexist.
In fact, it’s fine for observers to critique both male and female debaters, particularly when those debaters are running for the top offices in the land. While women are sometimes judged on a likability scale that can seem inscrutable, no one can claim that Trump is not judged for his likability. Some might even note that it’s the number one obsession for most media types.
Not everyone is a great debater. Most people aren’t, in fact. Pence is very good. Harris is a bit overbearing. Some people love it and it rubs a lot of other people the wrong way. Such is life. It’s something Trump deals with, too.
Harris could improve her performance by lowering the temperature on her condescension and developing more substance behind her brashness.
I am convinced that fly was the reincarnation of John McCain. . . .
“...all the pundits said it didn’t matter because vice-presidential debates “don’t matter.”
This is the one thing they are right about. People don’t change their vote due to a VP candidate, especially Democrats voters in this election.
8. When Hollywood finally gets around to making a live-action version of Jonny Quest, Pence is going to be cast as Race Bannon.
I beg to differ. In this case the VP DOES matter. At least on the Democrat side.
Because Joe and/or his brain are not long for this world.
She will likely become POTUS within a year if he’s elected.
THAT makes it matter.
Reece
Subject: harris
FORCE Schools To Let Male Athletes Compete In Girls’ Sports...Dems who didn’t support this get kicked out.....
.. Democratic candidate for America’s Vice President California Sen. Kamala Harris sponsored a Senate bill that would that would force funding public schools to allow biologically male athletes who identify as transgender on girls’ sports teams.
In March 2019, Harris cosponsored the Equality Act, which would amend the Civil Rights Act of 1964 . Among other things, the bill would force public schools to expand female athletic teams to include biological males who identify as transgender girls
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3873820/posts
.Also did this http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3877896/posts and this http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3880192/posts
.. HERE’S HOW THEY TREAT CONSERVATIVE CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS WHO DONT SUPPORT FUNDING STUFF LIKE THIS
.. And why there is no such thing as a Conservative Dem in Congress
An example is Illinois 3rd district
.. Todays Democrats weren’t happy with this father then son votes against abortion and the son’s being the only congressional democrat to vote NO on allowing men to to call themselves a women and compete with women in college sports. To stop this the demoncrats decided to remap the areas which supported them. The ward (the 23rd) and the congressional district formerly the 5th which they changed into being the 3rd Illinois congressional
Those who live in Chicago already voted at their local public library. But in the reshaped 3rd Congressional district Daniel Lipinski lost because of redistricting. Of a district which had previously included adjacent Chicago city wards to his 23rd. which was “re-mapped 2012. Into an area which chopped up sections of not only the 23 rd but the of adjacent 12th and 13th wards where in certain areas it affected getting city services because Chicago alderman oversee routing of such things as garbage collection. road maintanence in their distrct. Where your residence was in one ward and now your neighbor across the street or a block down was in another ward
.. The 5th was a district in the 1950’s which was a part of the third largest school district in the country run by the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago. Those city wards were predominatly composed of dozens of traditional value family oriented Catholic/Christian communities centered around churches and their schools. Hence opposed to funding such things as abortion and LGBT activities rather for issues that dealt exclusively with city issues such as a subway L service and the Stevenson Expressway. These Wards were reliable supporters of Dan’s father, William O Lipinski. Who when ran for his first term I was one of 5 who ran against him.
But where many wards had areas with hispanic last names those areas were redistricted and assigned to the Louis Gutieriez’s district. Where areas where buildings were abandoned affected by the no money down home mortgages or had changed because of this.
The ward such as the 14th was remapped to include portions of other wards mainly the 23rd which Those results are posted below which actually tear up the concept of a neighborhood and pit people against each other by using division.
In some of those wards areas of city blocks which were zoned exclusively for single family dwellings residents suddenly found their neighborhood having houses torn down and being replaced with multiple apartments with the units not required to furnish parking facilities and many renters were illegals. Much of which fit the plans for the suburbs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3881650/posts
COULD THIS BE WHY CHICAGOANS ARE SEEING RATS ?
The city of Chicago is composed of 50 wards which average out to around 72 precincts of about 350 or more voters in each precinct. Many are former villages incorporated into the city as the city grew. . A Chicago Alderman is in effect a mini mayor. They have input into who gets city services and now it’s how those services are being administered seem to be running into who’s ward is it ?.
What’s not being looked at is how Chicago wards have been redistricted. Chicago has had neighborhoods divided to create “Hispanic”residential sections going to Hispanic aldermanic and congressional (Gutierez) candidates and blacks going to black candidates.
Which apparently is the result of the turnover in the Freddie and Fanny mortgage collapse. As stable integrated areas changed into being unstable because of constant dwelling turnover.had the effect of breaking up a contiguous geographic continuity and community identity. Because the wards affected which are really like small towns have had sections broken up into areas where if a problem arises in a given section of street which has one way traffic only. It may be two way a block down because it’s in a different ward. The same applies to all other city services including zoning where serving socialist ideologic political purposes single dwelling units are removed and replaced by multiple high rise apartments complcating city services such as sanitation where garbage collection routes are organized by ward boundaries. Which disrupts living style where that is permitted to happen.
50 years as Alderman, Burke who is under federal charges for corruption ward is an example. Burke’s ward ,14th, needed remapping . The 14th was originally known as “Back of The Yards” Once the home of the famous Chicago Stock Yards where most food processors along with employee demographics have since relocated. It was a compact area almost 15 plus city blocks square area composed mostly of single and 2 story frame and brick family dwellings mixed with scattered brick apartment units. Because of the construction, insurance rates varied and became known as the condemned as “redlining”. When the democrats also warily supported by the Bush 2 administration came up with the no 20% down mortgage removed. Areas in the ward dramatically changed in demographics. Many of those dwellings sold under those conditions went into disrepair or default.
Originally his ward headquarters and palace was on 51st street just west of Damen Avenue. Today’s palace is just off of Pulaski Road near the Madam Curie high school just off of Archer Avenue miles away.
His ward now consists of areas carved from parts of the 12th (known as Mc Kinley Park and Brighton Park) and parts of the 23rd (known as Archer Heights Garfield Ridge and Clearing) wards Miles from the original 14th That In a former section of the 23rd ward now the 14th ward in the Midway airport area, 2 patrons in a local bar along Archer avenue were heard complaining about rats in their garbage. They felt it was because of the delay in garbage collection. Also heard the same beef about street snow removal. It has also played hell on zoning and because of the disruption of jurisdictions with the administration of city services such as streets and sanitation which the alderman (salary $120.000 plus allocations on local projects) do oversee and have input over.
By.employing this concept of remapping are residents are being denied the representation they should have ?
I think you’re wrong. With Biden clearly working from his death bed, pretty much everyone knows that the real candidate for the democrats is Harris. I think this debate may actually be the game changer.
Nobody is going to want Harris in the White House. Nobody with a brain or a 401k.
--That's where I turned it off--seeing another biased "moderator"on the Democrap side would be a waste of time--
Mrs. Thorne says Harris has a “Jezebel spirit”.
Something Willie Brown could tell us about, I'm sure.
Quite right!
Undecideds are not likely to vote for Trump simply based on Pence but, hopefully, some will be smart enough to not vote for Biden specifically because of Harris.
Bookmark
“She will likely become POTUS within a year if he’s elected.”
President in name only maybe and in far less than a year in my opinion but neither of the pair will be president in any real sense at any time. It would be puppet Biden at first and then puppet Harris soon enough. Who would be the real power? Soros or maybe some name I don’t even know. I don’t claim to know all the players and am too old and sick to learn quickly. Who is pulling the strings?
..though a different personality type from POTUS, the VP was strong, exposing Harris as a complete leftist amateur...
The very good likelihood of Harris becoming POTUS easily explains why this debate is valuable.
Harris is an evil, dangerous person. Has lots and lots of wrong ideas.
You raise valid points, but let’s not get the voters lost in the weeds here.
The voters saw her last night.
They do not like her.
Trump needs to pound the case that if Joe is eleced
she’ll be POTUS in short order.
Harris’s Superpower Is Something Other Than Debating
She looked like a hooker trying to score on a john by the smiles and all the giggling she never had a IQ over 40.
Agreed.
I beg to differ. A lot of Democrats consider Harris to be the real candidate. They think Biden is just a Trojan horse to get the first woman President into office.
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