Answering Objections about Genetically Modified Organisms

Townhall.com ^ | December 7, 2017 | Tracy Miller

[Aliska]

I didn't know that, thought they had to be closer genetically to cross. Thank you for explaining it.

It's not the same as what you explained, but I thought of this beauty that came up by chance with some seeds (I don't remember what, Canterbury Bells I think) that failed to germinate from winter sowing in a cut off gallon milk jug. It had lodged in a crack by the wall of the jug and soil.

This was September, and all poppies had long since quit blooming. When I saw the drooping bud, I knew I had a poppy and set it in the sun to see if it would bloom. It did in a day or two.

In excited anticipation, I was looking forward to it self pollinating and producing seed, and shared it on a garden forum. Was disappointed to learn that poppies, this type at least, don't self-pollinate, forget what the word for it is. So I was crushed, have never seen any red poppies quite like this, but there must be some somewhere.

A plant scientist might have gotten it to grow by some other means, but I had to enjoy the beauty of it while it lasted and let it go. So sad when I remember that. There are cloners you can buy, I didn't have one and doubt that would have worked but people talked about how they got certain plants to propagate in cloners.

If I could live my life over again, I'd like to work more with plants but not particularly in a commercial greenhouse or nursery but on my own projects somehow self-funded. I think I would do it the way Mendel did plus cloning and cuttings but I don't think I'd want to tamper with genetic manipulation.

[exDemMom]

Your flower was really beautiful.

Once, my husband was out mowing and found a little weed with brilliant red flowers, which he pulled up and brought inside to me. I put it in a pot and had it for a few months.

I later found out it was a portulaca. I’ve never seen another one with those brilliant red flowers.

Any kind of manipulation of a plant to change its appearance or growth habits by any means results in genetic modification.

In the early 1900s, botanists used to induce mutations by bombarding seeds with radiation. If the seeds survived and grew, they kept the plants with the most desirable traits. In many cases, the seeds of the descendants of those “radiation hybrids” are still sold, still grown commercially. Considering some of the kinds of damage caused by ionizing radiation, I think the chromosomes of those radiation hybrids may be quite different from the parent plants.

When I was a kid, I used to like visiting the Luther Burbank museum and garden in Santa Rosa, CA. He was more of a hobbyist than anything else. He developed over a hundred hybrids, but did not keep good notes and many of the hybrids have been lost. He came up with the Russet potato that is still quite popular, and the Shasta daisy.

[Garth Tater]

Seriously Mom? A mere 5% of our gene code coming in from viral sources over 10 million generations and you think that that is comparable to what is being done in genetic engineering labs today? They are pushing pieces of genetic material in at a million times the natural rates and of course there won't be any unexpected consequences because we have the word of you, a real scientist on that. Wow. You are a prideful one, aren't you Mom?

And I see you want to go back to our CO2 conversation which you abandoned last time when I disproved your assertion that all biomass comes originally from the process of photosynthesis. Well, here again is the link to an article by Professor G. Jeffrey Taylor, Ph.D at the Hawai‘i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology < link > that states:

"Recent research on deep rocks on Earth has shown that bacteria can live kilometers beneath the surface. Some bacteria live on nothing but rock and water, extracting energy from chemical reactions rather than from sunlight."

It appears that this "real" scientist disagrees with you Mom.

"Have you ever considered maybe taking some basic science classes before you try to match wits against an experienced scientist again?"

Maybe I'm not the one that needs to be taking some basic science courses Mom, because strangely enough, unlike you, I knew of the existence of these subterranean bacteria 20 years ago. Now I know you are a hard working govt scientist with no requirement or expectation to perform any real work and as such are a very busy woman, but you really should try to find some time to keep at least somewhat current with matters which you feel qualified to pontificate about.

Have a nice day Mom, and please keep in touch - I really do enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself time after time after time.

[exDemMom]

Seriously Mom? A mere 5% of our gene code coming in from viral sources over 10 million generations and you think that that is comparable to what is being done in genetic engineering labs today?

I'll bet you live in some kind of human-fabricated structure instead of a cave that took eons to form. But are you complaining about that? No? So what, if we have learned to use Nature's tools for our own betterment and can do so in far faster fashion and in a much more directed way?

And the process of viral material entering genomes is on-going. Koalas in Australia are undergoing such a genome-altering event right now, and scientists are tracking it.

And I see you want to go back to our CO2 conversation which you abandoned last time when I disproved your assertion that all biomass comes originally from the process of photosynthesis. [...] Some bacteria live on nothing but rock and water, extracting energy from chemical reactions rather than from sunlight."

Once again, you are illustrating your own lack of knowledge and projecting it on to me. Note that the professor stated that the energy comes from chemical reactions, not that the basic building block of biomolecules is anything other than CO2.

If you were to take a basic biology class, you would learn that photosynthesis takes place in two steps. The first step is the gathering of light energy and converting it to chemical energy. The second step is the use of the chemical energy to convert CO2 to glucose and the other biomolecules. What the professor said is not that the bacteria bypass the use of CO2, but that they bypassed the use of photo energy. If you were to read down in that same link, you would see this little tidbit: "In their scheme, the methane was made by bacteria that used the hydrogen and carbon dioxide in the water. High methane contents were associated with enrichments of carbon-12 over carbon-13. This change in isotopic ratio is characteristic of methane produced by bacteria during the reduction of carbon dioxide, supporting their interpretation. Stevens and McKinley also devised two experiments to see if these reactions would take place and if bacteria could live in an environment consisting of oxygen-free water and rock." And you can read down the page, where they carefully set up experiments to show that the bacteria did, indeed, use chemical energy to convert CO2 to other carbon molecules.

Maybe I'm not the one that needs to be taking some basic science courses ...

You have demonstrated multiple times that you desperately need to take a class or two. So why don't you take some of those classes, starting with Bio 101, Chem 101, and Phys 101, and working your way up from there? And then you can get back to me in a few years with, perhaps, some informed comments?

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

Aliska :" So I was crushed, have never seen any red poppies quite like this,
but there must be some somewhere."

Get yourself some fresh "Rootone", "Bonide" , or similar rooting compounds and make your own cuttings .
You might be able to perpetuate the species and the qualities that you like thru experimental cross-breeding.
Met-Mom is quite correct about the Cavendish banana - I believe that genetics allow for some 42 genetic generational cuttings,
so it's commercial value declines as its genetic resistance to disease declines.

[Tilted Irish Kilt]

Aliska :" So I was crushed, have never seen any red poppies quite like this,
but there must be some somewhere."

Get yourself some fresh "Rootone", "Bonide" , or similar rooting compounds and make your own cuttings .
You might be able to perpetuate the species and the qualities that you like thru experimental cross-breeding.
Met-Mom is quite correct about the Cavendish banana - I believe that genetics allow for some 42 genetic generational cuttings,
so it's commercial value declines as its genetic resistance to disease declines.

[logi_cal869]

Gluten intolerance and Celiac are closely-related conditions, one being merely a named condition for symptoms resulting from complications of the prior.

A doctor was curing Celiac 70 years ago, but his findings were supplanted by an illegitimate study upon which the current foundation is rooted.

“Gluten-free” is merely one more of the named “diets” I phrase as a “4-letter word,” another form of self-medication. From one perspective (science) one has nothing to do with the other (gluten intolerance/Celiac vs. GMO).

From my research findings, however, they are related (indirectly related to GMO, pertaining to the regulatory agencies which govern such things).

However again, the toxicity of glyphosate formulations are slowly being realized to compromise the gut...a precursor for complications which include gluten-intolerance and Celiac.

This is a complicated mess worsened by propaganda & hyperbole. The net result is that they tell us that they cannot grow crops w/o spraying toxic chemicals on our food and if it weren’t glyphosate, it’s going to be something worse. And no matter what it is, they ALWAYS tell us that it is safe until it’s proven otherwise.

There’s a word for that...

[logi_cal869]

I appreciate the sentiments.

Note: My research spawned enough material for an entirely-separate volume of my book, almost entirely about drinking water (with a segue into radiation...a related topic given the regulatory linkage).

Consider the source of of your liquid sustenance carefully; it could lengthen your healthy years significantly.

[metmom]

Credit goes to exDemMom.

I never heard of the Cavendish banana.

[Yaelle]

The US is very pro business freedom. This sounds wonderful. And I’m ok with caveat emptor in general. However, my life is totally taken up with dealing with people with severe brain damage which influences my passions for business freedom now.

There are too many neurotoxins in our environment. All the brain damage from birth or early childhood, all of the brain damage in our elderly, is DESTROYING a whole circle of people around each affected loved one. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be able to have the freedom to “pursue happiness” when you are a caregiver for special needs kids or parents.

Therefore I’d like to see the US prioritize neurological health over toxic foods and products, even if it controls the abject freedom of companies selling products or foods for our personal consumption (including laundry and garden products because our skin and lungs consume as easily and as riskily as our mouths).

Artificial food colors have DRAMATIC effects on children’s thinking and behavior. They are not allowed in MANY countries.

The neurotoxins in dryer sheets, the round up, these products are dangerous to our brains and the beget ie effects might not be seen until old age or even the next generation. Wombs of young teen girls are already filled with bisphenol A.

There is no benefit to populations “feeding hordes” with neurodegenerative toxins. Health is too important. Let’s not play with our health just to increase profits.

[Yaelle]

Exactly.

I cannot digest regular wheat. Surprisingly I have no problems with organic UNenriched wheat. Not that I eat it much, but if I did, that is very telling. Enriching is also harmful, especially stuffing cereals and grains with iron filings. Dumb. Everyone except the worst celiac patients can digest Italian 00 wheat.

Clean natural animals and plants make great nourishment.

[Yaelle]

If Diana hasn’t taken you then you’re the one on the thread I want to marry. Common sense and scientific method. See my YUGE bias on this subject in my post above. But I have a point.

[metmom]

Label the foods and let the public decide what to purchase.

What are you doing injecting common sense into a hot issue like GMO'S?

[metmom]

I grow and love the Heinz variety sauce tomato sold by Territorial Seed Company.

It makes the BEST flavor sauce going.

I add to it my own homegrown garlic and herbs.

YUM!

[Hot Tabasco]

Why mess with God’s Creation in this way?

Because God endowed us with the intelligence to create GMOs in order to more efficiently feed the masses......

[Hot Tabasco]

Urine works fairly well as a weed killer too.

Fortunately we don't have weeds in the winter here in Michigan.....

[savagesusie]

Understood. Our bodies are mainly made up of water. Thanks.

[metmom]

Now I know you are a hard working govt scientist with no requirement or expectation to perform any real work and as such are a very busy woman, but you really should try to find some time to keep at least somewhat current with matters which you feel qualified to pontificate about.

When you drop to the level of unsubstantiated personal attacks you lose your credibility.

I've read many of ExDemMom's posts over the years and she is well known on FR and knows what she is talking about.

You, not so much.

Also, she explains stuff. You have not build your case as well.

Your credibility has tanked a lot with some of the assumptions you make about her.

[metmom]

We have the KNOWLEDGE to do a lot.

Not the WISDOM to know if we should.

Just because we CAN do something, doesn’t mean that is SHOULD be done.

[mad_as_he$$]

Looks like you are from Texas. Glad the vinegar solutions work for you. Up here in the high desert of Nevada we have weeds that vinegar, salt and even roundup will do nothing to, in fact I think roundup just makes them mature and throw seeds. It is a chore to keep up hand weeding in our small garden.