Constitutional lawyer: Cruz 'right' about citizenship

The Hill ^ | January 17, 2016 | Bradford Richardson

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Constitutional lawyer Floyd Abrams says Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is on the right side in the argument over whether he can run for president.

"I think Senator Cruz is right that 'natural-born' as understood would more likely than not be held to mean someone that didn't need to be naturalized, didn't have to go through any procedure to be an American, as of course he did not because he had an American mother," Abrams told host John Catsimatidis on "The Cats Roundtable" on New York's AM-970 on Sunday.

Despite his belief that Cruz is a natural-born citizen, Abrams said the Supreme Court likely would not hand down a decision if petitioned in the case.

"I'll tell you what I think they would say: I think they would say we're not going to rule," he said. "I think they would say, we're going to treat this as what we call a political question. Congress can decide, the public can decide, but we're not going to pass on the issue of whether these words are of such magnitude as to disqualify someone for the presidency.

"I think that's where it would be left. I think it will ultimately be, even if Senator Cruz were to be elected president, one that the courts would just stay away from," he added.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump has attacked the Texas senator for his Canadian birth, saying Democrats will sue him and discredit his candidacy in a general election.

Article II, Section I of the Constitution states: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

Cruz, who is also a constitutional lawyer, has maintained that he is eligible to serve as president.

[Helicondelta]

In his emails to the Guardian, Tribe discussed Cruz’s own approach to constitutional issues, noting that under “the kind of judge Cruz says he admires and would appoint to the supreme court - an ‘originalist’ who claims to be bound by the historical meaning of the constitution’s terms at the time of their adoption - Cruz wouldn’t be eligible because the legal principles that prevailed in the 1780s and 90s required that someone be born on US soil to be a “natural born citizen.”

He added: “Even having two US parents wouldn’t suffice for a genuine originalist. And having just an American mother, as Cruz did, would clearly have been insufficient at a time that made patrilineal descent decisive.

“On the other hand, to the kind of judge that I admire and Cruz abhors - a ‘living constitutionalist’ who believes that the constitution’s meaning evolves with the needs of the time - Cruz would ironically be eligible because it no longer makes sense to be bound by so narrow and strict a definition.”

Tribe said: “There is no single, settled answer. And our supreme court has never addressed the issue.”

[Cboldt]

Never heard of this guy, Flloyd Abrams, but he is part of the deliberate effort to mislead the American public on an important question.

[Cboldt]

saying Democrats will sue him and discredit his candidacy in a general election.

Finding that one has presented oneself to the voters, as qualified, when one knows he is not qualified, does more than discredit ones' candidacy. It is a stain on one's character. It is an act of fundamental dishonesty.

The candidacy goes away too, to be sure.

[Helicondelta]

“didn’t have to go through any procedure to be an American”

Cruz has a Canadian birth certificate.

To obtain his US citizenship he had to file paperwork, pay a fee and go through a process.

He only became a US citizen after this process was completed. It’s unclear when he did this but it was likely many years after he was born, when his family decided to move to the US.

There is a paper trail for all of this and we’ll see it sooner or later.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Finding that one has presented oneself to the voters, as qualified, when one knows he is not qualified, does more than discredit ones' candidacy. It is a stain on one's character. It is an act of fundamental dishonesty.

Let's face it. It's the end of the world as we know it.

[RC one]

Cited By Justice Gray in the decion of US v. Wong Kim Ark:

The notion that there is any common law principle to naturalize the children born in foreign countries, of native-born American father and mother, father or mother, must be discarded. There is not, and never was, any such common law principle.

And this

It is universally admitted, both in the English courts and in those of our own country, that all persons born within the Colonies of North America, whilst subject to the Crown of Great Britain, are natural-born British subjects.

In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens.

and this:

Allegiance is nothing more than the tie or duty of obedience of a subject to the sovereign under whose protection he is, and allegiance by birth is that which arises from being born within the dominions and under the protection of a particular sovereign..... Thus, a person who is born on the ocean is a subject of the prince to whom his parents then owe allegiance; for he is still deemed under the protection of his sovereign, and born in a place where he has dominion in common with all other sovereigns. So the children of an ambassador are held to be [p660] subjects of the prince whom he represents, although born under the actual protection and in the dominions of a foreign prince.

and:

Persons who are born in a country are generally deemed citizens and subjects of that country." Story, Conflict of Laws, § 48.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Ted Cruz is not a 'natural-born citizen' - Mary Brigid Mcmanamon [OpEd originally printed in the WaPo]

Do I sense a bit of "otherness" being implied about Cruz by that drawing?

"...This latest attack comes as polls show the race between the two tightening in Iowa.

Ted Cruz was born in Canada and was a Canadian citizen until 15 months ago. Lawsuits have just been filed with more to follow. I told you so - Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 16, 2016

Trump Tees Off: Cruz A 'Canadian' Who Goldman Sachs, Citibank 'Owns'

[Cboldt]

dang it, that is NOT the song I wanted to have running in my head this morning ;-)

[samtheman]

*The Cruz campaign is asking the voters to plunge America into the deepest constitutional crisis in its history. The Hillary campaign is saying No, dont do it America. Vote calm stable leadership and a smooth transition of power. Vote Hillary*

- - - Text of a campaign ad to be aired sometime in October, 2016.

Will the text of the ad be factually correct? No.

Will the ad make it even more difficult than ever for Cruz to win purple states? Absolutely.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

CRUZ: Listen, I spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court, and I’ll tell you I’m not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

(Applause)

TRUMP: You don’t have to. take it from Laurence Tribe. Take it from your professor. take it from your own professor.

CRUZ: But I will tell you, the chances of any litigation proceeding and succeeding on this, are zero. Now Mr. Trump -

TRUMP: That’s wrong. It’s wrong.

CRUZ: But Mr. Trump is very focused on Larry Tribe. Let me tell you who Larry Tribe is. Left-wing judicial activist Harvard Law professor, Al Gore’s lawyer in Bush v. Gore. He is a major Hillary Clinton supporter. There is a reason why Hillary supporters are echoing Donald’s attacks on me. Because Hillary wants to face Donald Trump in the general election.

TRUMP: He is not the only one. Not only one. There are many lawyers....

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/14/gop-debate-trump-cruz-birthers/

[nikos1121]

IMO, it will be highly unlikely, and not fair to exclude an American senator from running and holding the office of president. The SC NEVER heard the challenges to Obama, and if I recall you, along with myself any many others here were screaming about Obama’s birthplace, birth certificate etc etc. The SC ignored us. People called us birthers etc. Even Trump was one of us.

HOWEVER, I’ve read commentary on both sides of this issue, and it seems that it is UNSETTLED.

If you are a constitutional originalist, as Cruz is, then you go by what the constitution said on this, ie that you are born on our soil.

If you are a constitutional revisionalist (that believes it evoloves) then he IS eligible.

NO ONE CAN say with any certainty until this is reviewed by the SC. And they should do it NOW!

Trump played the card obviously because Cruz was coming up in the polls. He admits that. Trump is the kind of adversary we’ve had to deal with all these years, Harry Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, etc. I don’t think he’s scoundrel like they are, but he throws 100 gal cans of @ss whip at you if you cross him. BUT LET’S FACE IT, THAT’S WHY OUR SIDE IS SO INEFFECTIVE AGAINST THESE PEOPLE.

Did you see that poll where in a three man race, Trump and Cruz together garnish over 80%? That’s amazing.

I DON’T like to see Cruz getting trashed on this issue and the banking one. It looks bad when he’s hanging around people like Glenn BEck.

Cruz is a good person and would make a great president, judge of the supreme court judge or majority leader some day.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Look who's attacking Cruz:

Fox
WSJ

Look who's defending Trump, the outsider:

Fox
Hillary Clinton

It looks like they've found their RINO.

[almcbean]

We all know that the authoritative source of constitutional issues is Donald Trump tweets.

[nikos1121]

Trump is right, it’s not settled, and it appears that TRibe knows Cruz very well, as he was one of his best students?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

So let me get this right - you think that U.S.Senator Ted Cruz [R-TX] was traveling overseas on on Canadian passport up until 15 months ago?

Is that what you’re selling?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

We all know that the authoritative source of constitutional issues is Donald Trump tweets.

It's how Obama governs - with #s.

[xzins]

If Congress had not written a law on this, what would we conclude about Cruz’s case?

[windsorknot]

I hear it was checked out by every attorney and every which way and I understand Ted is in fine shape

-Donald Trump (September 2015)

[Cboldt]

Thanks for those links. First I've seen the article by Mary Brigid Mcmanamon.

She claims that the current popular conclusion is rooted primarily in the Katyal/Clement article.