ATF’s Absurd AR-15 “Armor-Piercing” Ammo Ban Can Be Abused To Ban Common Rifle, Pistol Ammo

Bearing Arms ^ | March 2, 2015 | Bob Owens

[HammerT]

The argument that Obama’s ATF is attempting to use to ban common M855 ball ammunition for the AR-15 is that the bullet is “armor-piercing.”

Factually that is a lie, according to the clear definition of what constitutes an “armor-piercing” bullet as defined in the Law Enforcement Officer’s Protection Act of 1986 (LEOPA).

LEOPA’s definition requires the bullet’s core to be made of one of a number of specified hardened metals, and the core of the M855 ball round is soft lead that makes up 80-percent of the bullet’s total weight. The specific goal of the law was to prevent the use of hardened metal bullets with penetrator cores in common handguns, for what was then called “cop killer bullets.”

Amusingly enough, the mild steel insert in the front of the M855 round actually keeps the bullet from deforming or fragmenting at lower velocities, so that the M855 actually poses less of a risk of causing serious injuries than other 5.56 NATO rifle bullets.

If the ban on the intermediate-caliber, mostly-lead M855 round isn’t defeated, the ATF would presumably have free reign to ban any ammunition, as the actual law seems to matter little to a rogue agency that ignores and redefines laws on a whim.
[...]
Even very good body armor quite clearly isn’t “bullet-proof.”

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us in a place where ATF has shown itself will to arbitrarily reclassify lead ammunition as “armor-piercing,” despite the fact that it does not qualify as such under the law. If allowed to stand, the agency can then challenge all centerfire rifle ammunition, and then as Harmsen shows, even decades old pistol bullets that are now deemed obsolete.

We can either be a nation of laws, or a nation of rogue agencies and dictatorial power.

[HammerT]

Yes, I realize this has been discussed already – but the point made in this article is very telling.

If allowed to stand, the agency can then challenge all centerfire rifle ammunition, and then as Harmsen shows, even decades old pistol bullets that are now deemed obsolete.

We’re only at the start of Obama the Dear Liar’s last two years? In office.

What else can we expect to be dictated by his royal highness?

[Busko]

This is just the opening of the door to get rid of more ammo.

[ctdonath2]

Rather a stretch. BATFE is construing M855 as AP because it has a significant component which matches the AP ban law - it’s a legal argument over what constitutes a “core”. Without any component using the enumerated metals, this method of prohibition doesn’t apply.

The hysteria over this issue is getting absurd. Yes, the ban is bad and misguided and unlawful and unconstitutional - but the means for the ban does NOT translate into banning _all_ AR15 (or more) ammo.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Ammo Ban Can Be Abused To Ban Common Rifle, Pistol Ammo***

That’s the point! A nibble here, a bite there! Soon it will still be legal to use ammo, but it will be so regulated with theses little nibbles it will no longer be legal to buy.

[EnigmaticAnomaly]

That’s all it’s been all along...the wholesale banning of ALL ammo, thereby effectively negating the 2nd Amendment.

[RightOnTheBorder]

but the means for the ban does NOT translate into banning _all_ AR15 (or more) ammo.

Pretty naïve to think that isn't the ultimate goal and the point of the article is valid. Since the law has been around since '86 and M855 was legal all that time, it clearly was never intended to be banned by LEOPA. If the ATF can "re-interpret" the law to ban M855, then it can ban anything.

[Beagle8U]

If they get away with banning the M855 ammo, which clearly doesn’t meet the qualifications of AP ammo under the law, they will be free to ban any ammo they want.

[null and void]

At no point in history has any government ever wanted its people to be defenseless for any good reason ~ nully's son

The biggest killer of mankind

Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...

“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” Barack Hussein Obama, 7/2/2008

They don’t call it a Civil Defense force, that would imply we need (or perhaps that we deserve) defense. The official name is National Civilian Community Corps.

I think of it as the NatCCC, or more simply, as the NatCs...

[HammerT]

‘Rather a stretch’? ‘hysteria’?

Take a look around at what the Dear liar has done in violating the rule of law with Obamacare, illegal amnesty, etc.

Clearly the man will push the boundaries (literally and figuratively) as far as he can go.

If they can construe the law to apply to that type of ammo as being ‘Armor piecing’ what’s to stop them from arbitrarily applying that to any type of ammo?

Like most Statists, Obama hates that people have certain common sense civil rights, and if he can’t be rid of them by the legislative process he will do it by executive fiat.

[smokingfrog]

Not sure what the muzzle velocity of this type of ammo might be when shot from a pistol, but is bound to be much less effective at penetrating body armor than when fired by a rifle. Has anyone actually tested this?

[Inyo-Mono]

If allowed to stand, the agency can then challenge all centerfire rifle ammunition, and then as Harmsen shows, even decades old pistol bullets that are now deemed obsolete

Yes, like .45 Long Colt and 44/40 Winchester, both originally black powder cartridges dating back to the 1870s.

[HammerT]

Exactly, I was a little bit reticent at posting this knowing that I might get the NSS - ‘No Sheet Sherlock’ response.

But the facts do have to be laid out for everyone.

[Gritty]

Tent. Camel’s nose. Freedom and liberty lose.

[ctdonath2]

Many of us have been expecting the M855 ban for a decade. M855 has been available up to now precisely because it was considered exempted (under the tenuous & absurd "sporting purpose" categorization), so the BATFE is legally doing what was considered a normal application of the AP ban law. Of course, this involves a strained definition of "core", but that's going to be something the courts will have to resolve (yes, "it's a lead core with a steel tip" but nothing in the law actually defines "core").

Remember: the "armor piercing" designation has a very precise, if misguided, definition in law. It has nothing to do with ability to pierce armor - and it's exactly that legal definition which DOES stop them from arbitrarily applying "that" to any type of ammo.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

It seems that the crux of this is that the ATF doesn't want rifle ammo out there that can be used in hand guns. So why not just ban those types of handguns?

Because they want desperately to have this ruling affect AR-15 platforms as well.

[ctdonath2]

Ok, let's get something clear, people:

The "armor piercing" designation has nothing to do with ability to pierce armor.
It only is a matter of having a "core" made out of certain materials.
And what's at issue here is what constitutes a "core", which is undefined in law, and which the BATFE is straining to apply to the steel "tip" of M855.

[ctdonath2]

ATF can’t ban those types of handguns because the law doesn’t work that way. The “armor piercing” ban only applies to ammo with certain metallic properties which can be used in a handgun (definition of which is strained but applicable to “AR15 pistols”).

[Inyo-Mono]

It seems that the crux of this is that the ATF doesn't want rifle ammo out there that can be used in hand guns. So why not just ban those types of handguns?

Like the 1873 Colt Frontier Model?

[smokingfrog]

Just put a pink tip on it and call it a reduced lead round. Environmentally Friendly!

[Jack Hammer]

‘ATF’s Absurd AR-15 “Armor-Piercing” Ammo Ban Can Be Abused To Ban Common Rifle, Pistol Ammo’

Uh... isn’t that the whole point of the exercise?