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James Sherr: It is time we stopped praising Ukraine for ‘exercising restraint’
Kyiv Post ^ | March 26, 2014, 6:02 p.m. | Yuriy Onyshkiv

Posted on 03/26/2014 7:40:20 PM PDT by Zhang Fei

KP: You are arguing that Ukraine ... should respond with strength to Russian aggression. What do you think Ukraine ... should do to keep Putin out of Ukraine?

Where Ukraine is concerned, Carlyle’s dictum deserves repeating for the umpteenth time: ‘If I am not for myself, who will be for me?’ As an outsider, I am baffled by the authorities’ failure to formally declare that a state of war exists. The Armed Forces and the country need to hear this. Ukraine has been attacked and invaded. Its assets and military bases have been seized, centres of power have been occupied, and its navy has been destroyed. Although the new authorities are becoming more decisive, there still is a perilous lack of clarity. To this day, I’m not sure that soldiers and their commanders know what is expected of them. Here, I am the first to agree that the West has not helped. It is time we stopped praising Ukraine for ‘exercising restraint’. Our message must be: ‘Ukraine has the right and obligation to defend its armed forces, its citizens and its territory, and in this it can count on our full support.’ Hesitation in Ukraine reinforces hesitation in the West and vice versa. Those who say, in so many words, ‘we should not be focusing on Crimea, only on the elections’ are doing untold damage to the country.

(Excerpt) Read more at kyivpost.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: deathtoputin; jamessherr; putinsbuttboys; russia; russophiles; traitorsonfr; ukraine; yuriyonyshkiv
Fascinating interview - about Ukraine's options - with a fellow at Chatham House, a UK think-tank.
1 posted on 03/26/2014 7:40:20 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei

Bump


2 posted on 03/26/2014 7:41:13 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Zhang Fei

The Ukraine was not attacked by anyone except those currently in charge of Kiev who obtained their power not by votes or law and order but rocks, bottles, fire and gunfire.

The people of Crimea, who saw the government of Ukraine overthrown by a western backed coup, decided to stand for their right of self determination by voting to leave it behind.

To suggest that the proper response to this is to somehow attack them is the epitome of irony and ingorance. We are only for democracy when it turns out our way.


3 posted on 03/26/2014 7:45:51 PM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: wonkowasright; GeronL

Russian troops in the street is not democracy.


4 posted on 03/26/2014 7:46:34 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy

Exactly


5 posted on 03/26/2014 7:48:18 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Impy

“Russian troops in the street is not democracy”

Neither are Open Society-financed thugs and violent Nazi’s...
As Natalia Poklonskaya said, when she resigned from the Kiev Ukraine General Prosecutor’s Office, and fled to her parent’s home in Crimea, she was “ashamed to live in the country where bandits were allowed to walk the street freely”.


6 posted on 03/26/2014 7:52:50 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Zhang Fei

The White Hut Secret Service should exercise “restraint”.


7 posted on 03/26/2014 8:07:07 PM PDT by MtnClimber (Just doing laps around the sun and shaking my head that progressives can believe what they do!)
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To: tcrlaf; GeronL
 photo abelincolnbattalionflag_zps2de77fd1.jpg

Congratulations, tovarich tcrlaf!

Has Moscow Center released official instructions that the Polish reservists being called up are "Nazis" yet? Or are they going to be designated as "Imperialists" or "Counterrevolutionaries?" Please let us know as soon as you receive your marching orders.

8 posted on 03/26/2014 8:10:20 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: tcrlaf

Take your Russian propaganda and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine, Putin crotch sniffer.


9 posted on 03/26/2014 8:11:52 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: Impy

Coming from people like us with a few million LEO’s driving around issuing speeding tickets while Black Panthers hang around poling sites during elections and dead people continue to vote, the argument loses a bit of credibility.


10 posted on 03/26/2014 8:13:00 PM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: Zhang Fei

About 70-80% of the Ukrainian armed forces would join up with Russia. 77% of Ukrainian military in Crimea have done so. They are not loyal to the Banderist Kiev regime.


11 posted on 03/26/2014 8:13:29 PM PDT by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Red White and Blue patriot

My, , that was an intelligent point you made in response to his post. He won that exchange. That’s my official ruling.


12 posted on 03/26/2014 8:17:53 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: wonkowasright
To suggest that the proper response to this is to somehow attack them is the epitome of irony and ignorance.

Not to mention the fact that it would be suicidal.
13 posted on 03/26/2014 8:19:57 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: wonkowasright

The illegal coup and the western powers’ engineering of same has awoken the slumbering bear of Russia.


14 posted on 03/26/2014 8:22:19 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: Red White and Blue patriot

You are worried about what Putin is doing in the Ukraine? How are we doing with Mexico? Who’s crotch are you sniffing?

I love my country but until we can get our crap under wraps here, I don’t think we have too much latitude to be bitching about how other nations handle their neighbors.


15 posted on 03/26/2014 8:22:22 PM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: Impy; GeronL

/bingo


16 posted on 03/26/2014 8:24:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/alreadyposted/index)
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To: FredZarguna; Red White and Blue patriot

Thank you!


17 posted on 03/26/2014 8:27:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/alreadyposted/index)
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To: DesertRhino

I don’t give a flip about your ruling or that of any other dimwit incapable of seeing all the lies being pushed by the Putinists around here.


18 posted on 03/26/2014 8:29:51 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
And like clockwork, Putin crotch sniffer number two shows up to back up his comrade. Is your fuhrer paying you overtime?
19 posted on 03/26/2014 8:31:30 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: SouthParkRepublican

BS. This is the greatest nation on earth. We not only have the right but the duty to help those seeking freedom wherever they may be. Whatever problems we have internally can be fixed, but if we allow Russia to take over Europe we are screwed.


20 posted on 03/26/2014 8:36:26 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: Ciexyz

Stop believing Russian propaganda. They are liars, thugs, and tyrants.


21 posted on 03/26/2014 8:37:18 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: Red White and Blue patriot; LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
You mean Russophobe!

Here Low[down] in case you missed it on the other thread. Your major award:

 photo abelincolnmedalLTEP_zps6f0dc9b3.jpg

22 posted on 03/26/2014 8:37:35 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: SouthParkRepublican

If you see troops out your window, please call your doctor. He’ll know what to do.


23 posted on 03/26/2014 8:39:21 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: cripplecreek

Congratulations! It looks like you and the rest of the connedservatives who have bought this Russian bs are in luck. Obama agrees with you and will let Putin take whatever he wants without firing a shot.


24 posted on 03/26/2014 8:39:44 PM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: FredZarguna

The Tsar is back in town


25 posted on 03/26/2014 8:44:36 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: tcrlaf
she was “ashamed to live in the country where bandits were allowed to walk the street freely”.

Your observation is so trenchant: isn't it amazing how commies can say the most incredible lies with a straight face and then have useful dimwits repeat them?

The Russians got angry because their hand-puppet got kicked to the curb, and now we have to listen to thugs who stuff ballot boxes under machine guns huff and puff about the rule of law.

Hopefully, a bullet finds her and puts her out of her terrible misery.

26 posted on 03/26/2014 8:46:08 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: cripplecreek

Suicidal, because a volunteer army with modern weapons always gets its ass kicked by a bunch of vodka-soaked conscripts sporting 1940’s ordnance.


27 posted on 03/26/2014 8:47:59 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: GeronL

And wherever there are Russky thugs, there is an entourage of cockroaches, fellow travelers, and useful idiots.


28 posted on 03/26/2014 8:50:05 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: tcrlaf

Then why would she go to Crimea?


29 posted on 03/26/2014 8:53:36 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
Yeah, it's a funny thing. When a dictator murders 10 million of your people and then ships in millions of cockroaches who don't belong in your country into the Eastern sector, the interlopers have a tendency to know what side their bread is buttered on.

What happened in Crimea isn't going to happen in the parts of Ukraine where actual Ukrainians live.

30 posted on 03/26/2014 8:54:35 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: GeronL
She meant to say: "I want to go to a place where Russian thugs like me roam freely."
31 posted on 03/26/2014 8:56:21 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: GeronL
The Tsar is back in town

He's hanging out at Dino's.

32 posted on 03/26/2014 8:56:34 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: tcrlaf
As Natalia Poklonskaya said, when she resigned from the Kiev Ukraine General Prosecutor’s Office, and fled to her parent’s home in Crimea, she was “ashamed to live in the country where bandits were allowed to walk the street freely”.

LOL...what about the invading Russian bandits in the streets of Crimea? Guess she really has no shame, just different priorities.
33 posted on 03/26/2014 9:11:09 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: Ciexyz
The illegal coup and the western powers’ engineering of same has awoken the slumbering bear of Russia.

Nah....the "bear" has been on the prowl and making plans. They just used this opportunity in Ukraine to jump-start their operations.
34 posted on 03/26/2014 9:12:57 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: Red White and Blue patriot

When did I say it was not the greatest nation on Earth?

The problem is that we are electing to involve ourselves in the affairs of other nation’s military directives regardless of whether or not there is any moral imperative for us to do so.

In the scope of international affairs, this was basically a bloodless coup in the Ukraine followed by a referendum that both liberal and conservative sources (if there are any anymore) pegged at about 70% in favor of becoming a part of Russia.

Yet you choose to rail against this in the name of doing what is right?

We start by restoring order to our own house first.


35 posted on 03/26/2014 9:21:16 PM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: FredZarguna

It’s much more likely that the “troops” I see outside my door will be domestic rather than foreign.


36 posted on 03/26/2014 9:24:01 PM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: Red White and Blue patriot

And just on a side note.... How’s the whole “duty to support those seeking freedom” thing working out for us in Egypt?


37 posted on 03/26/2014 9:27:37 PM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: Zhang Fei

This was a very good article. James Sherr makes a lot of sense.


38 posted on 03/26/2014 9:32:42 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: SouthParkRepublican

Who is “not supporting them” besides the moron in the White House?


39 posted on 03/26/2014 9:36:02 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: Zhang Fei
Excellent article. This seems like the summing up or conclusion.

Russia won’t die either, but I am confident that it will lose. It does not understand this country. Even if it wins this round, it will lose. The Kremlin thought it won in December when Yanukovych signed the accord on December 17 [regarding Russian $15 billion loan package], and Putin’s cronies announced that ‘Ukraine is ours.’ Then in two months time, they found they had no influence in Ukraine at all. We now need to show Russia: you take Crimea, you lose Ukraine; you take more of Ukraine, you lose Europe. I think it’s eminently feasible.

Pooty truly does not understand the love of liberty that beats in a heart wanting to be free of tyranny.

40 posted on 03/26/2014 9:42:34 PM PDT by No One Special
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To: No One Special
Pooty truly does not understand the love of liberty that beats in a heart wanting to be free of tyranny.

Pooty and 52% of the American electorate.

41 posted on 03/26/2014 9:47:22 PM PDT by kevao (Biblical Jesus: Give your money to the poor. Socialist Jesus: Give your neighbor's money to the poor)
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To: SouthParkRepublican

The moral imperative is that if we do not hold up our end of a Security Assurance that resulted in the Ukraine giving up 5000 nukes, the logical fallout eventually results in a whole bunch of radioactive fallout. Whether we catch it (much less the other effects) depends on “where” and the prevailing winds.

However, as a people proven to be dishonorable, short sighted, and deadly foolish, perhaps it is deserved. God smote Sodom and Gomorrah for not much worse.


42 posted on 03/26/2014 10:09:19 PM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Zhang Fei
Carlyle’s dictum deserves repeating for the umpteenth time: ‘If I am not for myself, who will be for me?’

Carlyle??? I'm thinkin', What am I? Losing my mind?

But here it is : Rabbi Hillel ... "If I am not for myself, who is for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, then when?"

43 posted on 03/26/2014 11:21:22 PM PDT by dr_lew
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To: SouthParkRepublican
How’s the whole “duty to support those seeking freedom” thing working out for us in Egypt?

At the start of the Arab spring there were a few of us here at FR urging caution and were endlessly shouted down for "opposing freedom". As the truth was revealed and the islamists took over the shouting slowly died down. Today you would have a tough time finding anyone around here who will admit to supporting it.

As for Egypt today, I'm still uneasy.
44 posted on 03/27/2014 4:45:19 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: wonkowasright
Where’d you get that line, Pravda?
45 posted on 03/27/2014 9:29:02 AM PDT by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: tcrlaf

Commies just love to label their enemies as Nazis.


46 posted on 03/27/2014 9:29:41 AM PDT by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: kevao

Putler has an 80% approval rating among his Russian serfs.
Obama has a 40% approval rating among Americans.
Americans have learned their lesson.


47 posted on 03/27/2014 10:30:31 AM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: No One Special

Neither do some of the posters around here.


48 posted on 03/27/2014 10:31:09 AM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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To: SouthParkRepublican

Don’t compare a bunch of Muslim Brotherhood fanatics to the freedom fighters of Ukraine. Muslims are about as freedom-loving as Putler’s Russian serfs.


49 posted on 03/27/2014 10:41:36 AM PDT by Red White and Blue patriot (USA all the way. Love it or Leave it. Ted Cruz 2016)
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