Posted on 11/28/2012 9:42:40 AM PST by Perseverando
For decades, it has been obvious that there are irreconcilable differences between Americans who want to control the lives of others and those who wish to be left alone. Which is the more peaceful solution: Americans using the brute force of government to beat liberty-minded people into submission, or simply parting company? In a marriage, where vows are ignored and broken, divorce is the most peaceful solution. Similarly, our constitutional and human rights have been increasingly violated by a government instituted to protect them. Americans who support constitutional abrogation have no intention of mending their ways.
Since Barack Obama’s re-election, hundreds of thousands of petitioners for secession have reached the White House. Some people have argued that secession is unconstitutional, but there’s absolutely nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it. What stops secession is the prospect of brute force by a mighty federal government, as witnessed by the costly War of 1861. Let’s look at the secession issue.
At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, a proposal was made to allow the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the acknowledged father of our Constitution, rejected it, saying: “A Union of the States containing such an ingredient seemed to provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a State would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”
On March 2, 1861, after seven states had seceded and two days before Abraham Lincoln’s inauguration, Sen. James R. Doolittle of Wisconsin proposed a constitutional amendment that said, “No State or any part thereof, heretofore admitted or hereafter admitted into the Union, shall have the power to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the United
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Thanks, TM.
s, w ping....
Best post, ever.
“Texas contributes far more to the federal budget than it gets returned. With all of the refinery capacity, they’d do fine.”
Which is why the Washington government would fight its first total war since 1945 to keep the chattel asset called “Texas”.
A quick search brought up the following example.
On the 26th the Louisiana convention passed an Ordinance of Secession by 103 yeas to 17 nays. It was charged that there had been fraud in the election of delegates to the convention, and the claim was made that the Union men were in a majority throughout the State. Accordingly it was proposed to submit the ordinance to the vote of the people. This proposition was voted down by 84 yeas to 45 nays.
In Texas, a State convention, called by the legislature, which, as we have seen, had met in unconstitutional assembly, passed an Ordinance of Secession on February 1, by a vote of 166 yeas to 7 nays. This was submitted to a popular vote and was ratified by a large majority.
Arkansas, North Carolina, Virginia, and Missouri held conventions in which the Union men were in a majority, and the secession of these States was thus postponed. The later secession of Missouri was the work of persons unauthorized by the Confederacy, and, though recognized by the Confederacy, was not legally valid even according to the theory of secession.
The Tennessee and Kentucky legislatures, being strongly Unionist, refused to call conventions.
Gov. Thomas H. Hicks, of Maryland, refused to convene the legislature of his State on the subject.
The legislature of Delaware, when urged by a comissioner from Mississippi to pass an Ordinance of Secession, gave the proposition an “unqualified disapproval.”
Great Debates in American History, Volume Five, pages 278-279
Current Literature Publishing Company, New York, 1913
http://www.adena.com/adena/usa/cw/al.htm
If Virginia did not legally secede, the West Virginia does not legally exist.
(US Constitution Article 4, section 3.1: ...no new state may be formed within the jurisdiction of any other state...without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned and of the Congress.)
However, both NY and VA conditionally ratified The Constitution, under the direction of Patrick Henry. The conditional ratification explicitly retained the right to secede for NY and VA at their discretion, when they deemed that the fedgov was operating outside of their best interests.
G-S-M
Fine, go ahead and act like one of the profane Libtards. We’ll throw your profane ass into a Federal prison along with anyone else committing subversion and treason against the People of the United States and the Constitution for attempting unconstitutional secession and subversion of the Republican form of government mandated by the Constitution.
“I think the North East power structure would let Texas and a few other states go without a fight.”
I disagree. Texas is the number one oil producer. With exception to the extreme left, those in power realize they need that energy. Most of the central US (red states) produces food, energy and other goodies the blue states need to survive on.
The blue states are basically parasites to the red states and have nothing to offer in return except liberal politics.
To all:
Regarding secession in general, when this subject first started a couple weeks ago I read South Carolina’s pre-civil war secession document. One item mentioned as a reason was the federal governments growing power. Same as today.
I refreshed my history, and it came to light that after several states seceded, the federal troops would not leave. The war did not start until the South fired on federal forces. Again, same today - that is, let’s say Texas secedes, just how do they propose to get the US federal government forces and agencies out?????
What about US federal owned land and other properties?
I see another civil war if anyone tries to enforce secession.
Hi Janet!!1!
Alabama Delaware Iowa Michigan New Hampshire Oklahoma Utah
BATON ROUGE, Friday, Jan. 25.
The day has been partially consumed in speeches from the South Carolina and Alabama Commissioners. Efforts were made for cooperation, and at last the Convention adjourned after much discussion on a resolution submitting the act to the people the vote on the Secession bill till 12 o'clock to-morrow.
BATON ROUGE, Saturday, Jan 26.
The delay ordinance, moved to be substituted for the secession ordinance reported by the Committee of Fifteen, was voted down yesterday by an immense majority.
Commissioners MANNING, of South Carolina, and WINSTON, of Alabama, made eloquent addresses in favor of immediate secession.
There was an animated debate last night on the resolution for submitting the secession ordinance for ratification to the people. The advocates of immediate secession abstained from all debate. There was no extreme opposition to the ordinance.
The vote on submitting the ordinance to the people was taken this morning -- Ayes 45, Nays 84.
JOHN PERKINS addressed the Convention on the passage of the secession ordinance.
The debate closed, and a vote was ordered.
The galleries and lobbies were intensely crowded, and a deathlike silence prevailed. On the call of the roll many members were in tears.
The Clerk announced the vote -- Ayes 113, Nays 17 --and the President declared Louisiana a free and sovereign Republic.
Capt. ALLEN then entered the Convention with a Pelican flag, accompanied by Gov. MOORE and staff, and put the flag in the hands of the President, amid tremendous excitement.
A solemn prayer was then offered, and a hundred guns were fired.
The Convention adjourned to meet in New-Orleans on the 29th inst.
Before the Convention adjourned the resolution accompanying the ordinance, declaring the right of free navigation of the Mississippi River and tributaries to all friendly States, and the right of egress and ingress to boats of the Mississippi by all friendly States and powers, passed unanimously.
A gold pen was given each member with which to sign the ordinance of secession.
No confusion, no violence. You fail.
Oddly enough, this is exactly what southerners said before the last secession. In fact, one southern senator stated that all the blood shed over secession wouldn't fill a lady's thimble.
He may have been right, but it would have taken one really large thimble.
Ping for later
The only thing to do at this point is to bust apart and it will happen eventually. Maybe not within our lifetimes but it will happen.
Most Anglos and other ethnic groups who do not want to have their assests confiscated by immigrant mobs will have to leave for self preservation.
Did the American people ask to have our country diversified to the point where we lose our Judeo Christian culture? Did the American people vote for open borders to the point where our society will be changed forever?
Beware folks the communists destroyed us with demographics. A friend of mine told me that the reason so many muslims immigrants own hotels is because they need a place to house their armies. Kook theory? Could be but it sure would make it easy for the terrorists to invade our towns and cities and wreak havoc on the population.
Hi Wlat - have you been all tied up or just hanging around?
The original articles of confederation, before the constitution, were “perpetual.” So, according to you we should still be operating under them?
The constitution does not use the term perpetual anywhere. Why did you confuse that term used in the articles of confederation with the Constitution?
(Not because it seemingly help your position, I hope.)
Please reference said article in the Constitution.
I'm merely pointing out that their suffering was minimal when compared to the losing side in other great civil wars.
For instance, after the war was over the Spanish winners executed something over 50,000 of the losers, out of a population somewhat smaller than the USA in the 1860s. That compares with - one - such execution in the United States.
Spain had hundreds of thousands imprisoned for a decade or more after the war, as opposed to few or none in the South.
The winners in other great civil wars (English, Chinese, Russian, etc.) behaved similarly with regard to confiscation of property, execution of opponents, etc.
~~Major General Patrick Cleburne C.S.A.
“Fine, go ahead and act like one of the profane Libtards. We’ll throw your profane ass into a Federal prison along with anyone else committing subversion and treason against the People of the United States and the Constitution for attempting unconstitutional secession and subversion of the Republican form of government mandated by the Constitution.”
Spoken like every other murdering statist who ever lived.
Liquidate the Optimates/kulaks/Trostkyites/subhumans/ whatever.
Dissent is not allowed in Utopia.
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