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Police Chiefs Focus on Disparities in Gun Violence, With an Eye Toward Solutions
New York Times ^ | 29 apr 2012 | ERICA GOODE

Posted on 04/29/2012 5:17:42 AM PDT by rellimpank

WASHINGTON — In a single week last April, 3 people were killed with guns in Philadelphia, 14 more were shot and wounded, 68 robberies were carried out at gunpoint and a total of 144 crimes involving firearms were reported.

During that same week in San Diego, a city of roughly the same size with far fewer police officers, there were no gun-related homicides, 2 people wounded by gunshots, 4 robberies committed at gunpoint and a total of only 20 gun-related crimes.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; rkba

1 posted on 04/29/2012 5:17:49 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank

As long as no one factors in race, we can continue study the question without reaching an answer, thus keeping academics employed.


2 posted on 04/29/2012 5:29:14 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: rellimpank

Another load of ratcrap!


3 posted on 04/29/2012 5:30:01 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: rellimpank
With an Eye Toward Solutions

Simplest solution there is: Repeal all gun laws.

Everyone (with half a brain) already knows -- gun laws do NOTHING to curb crime.

Repeal all gun laws and people who have been considering buying and carrying a weapon would then be encourage to do it; crime would then plummet.

Simple.

Too simple for the power-hungry idiots in office who rule over us....

4 posted on 04/29/2012 5:32:30 AM PDT by Jerrybob
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To: rellimpank
There is an obvious truth staring them in the face in the differences in the census data between San Diego and Philadelphia, they just don't want to admit it.

Just as they ignore black-on-black murders as they wear hoodies to rallies in support of a judicial lynching of George Zimmerman.

And that pattern holds up in state-level murder rates as well - compare the murder rates of two relatively poor states - Mississippi and West Virginia, as it relates to their census data - and the same pattern holds. Financial poverty is not the problem. Moral poverty is.

The problem is urban thug culture. There is no easy fix such as passing gun laws. But the answer sure as heck isn't the approach taken by Obama, Holder and Sharpton.

5 posted on 04/29/2012 5:34:25 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: PAR35

I think the issue is culture more so than race.

One culture in the U.S. not only tolerates a high level of criminality, a substantial subset of it even venerates it. For things to change, this must end.


6 posted on 04/29/2012 5:35:45 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: PAR35
From the article:

If there was a central message to be drawn from the survey, it was that gun violence is tightly concentrated in the poorest urban neighborhoods, its victims mostly minorities, who receive little attention from politicians and the news media.

And as I posted above, West Viginia and Mississippi are both poor states. Some folks in the hollows of West Viginia experience depravations far worse than those in North Philly. Yet the West Viginia murder rate is much lower than Mississippi. Poverty is not the cause. In the violence-prone sections of inner-cities, it is a symptom of the same thug culture that feeds the violence.

So this is yet another liberal circle-jerk that refuses to face the hard facts and is therefore doomed to accomplish utterly nothing towards solving the underlying problems.

7 posted on 04/29/2012 5:39:09 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: rellimpank
Chief Flynn recounted pleading with a state senator to include a provision in Wisconsin’s concealed weapons law that would ban habitual criminal offenders from obtaining permits. The senator, he said, told him, “Here’s the phone number of the National Rifle Association lobbyist in Washington, D.C. If it’s O.K. with him, it will be O.K. with us.” The provision was not included, Chief Flynn said.

Straw purchasing, in which a proxy buys guns for convicted felons, is another problem, participants said. Chief Art Acevedo of Austin said his officers regularly observed women buying as many as 30 guns, including semiautomatic weapons, at gun shows and then passing them on to men.

Photobucket

8 posted on 04/29/2012 5:40:32 AM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (Typed using <FONT STYLE=SARCASM> unless otherwise noted)
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To: rellimpank

So long as any culture sees that it’s cool to b a thug, murder will be common and celebrated. Thuggish people get thuggish behavior.


9 posted on 04/29/2012 5:42:03 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (I like Obamacare because Granny signed the will and I need the cash)
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To: rellimpank

Because Philly is a black-democrap run hell hole and San Diego is not?

Yes... I said it!


10 posted on 04/29/2012 5:42:28 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: FreedomPoster; PAR35
I think the issue is culture more so than race.

The problem is the thug culture that has taken over large swaths of urban neighborhoods. And any time someone such as Bill Cosby or Juan Williams tries to speak up against it, they are shouted down by the same nitwits who engage in these kind of liberal hand-wringing exercises.

So the problem is race in that even those from that race cannot give an honest assessment of the problems inherent in the subculture of a large swath of their own race without fear of retribution. And things won't get better as long as that is the case.

11 posted on 04/29/2012 5:42:59 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: rellimpank

How about this for a solution:

Support marriage between one man and one woman, reform “divorce” laws so that it is next to impossible to get one, support monogamy and get sex off the street, television and the billboards, legalize drugs so if people want to anesthetize themselves to death they can do so without supporting a huge law enforcement, prison, legal system; bring back prayer in schools; support mothers staying at home with their children.


12 posted on 04/29/2012 5:44:36 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: dirtboy

urban thug culture is based on the drug culture, duh. Legalize it all asap. Let whoever wants to smoke formaldehyde or embalming fluid do so in peace.


13 posted on 04/29/2012 5:46:07 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk
urban thug culture is based on the drug culture, duh. Legalize it all asap. Let whoever wants to smoke formaldehyde or embalming fluid do so in peace.

Uh, no, it goes a lot deeper than that. If you legalized drugs tomorrow, urban thug culture would still trash basic virtues such as education, self-restraint and hard work.

14 posted on 04/29/2012 5:49:14 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: clee1

Good for you. We need to start calling a spade, a spade.


15 posted on 04/29/2012 5:49:51 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Admin Moderator refuses to let me hit it. -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2875871/posts)
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To: Aevery_Freeman

More idiocy from Flynn:

http://eye-on-wisconsin.blogspot.com/2011/10/where-are-wisconsins-concealed-carry.html

Last week Milwaukee’s Shepherd Express ran a story about the new concealed carry law. In that story they reported several concerns that Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn had concerning it. He said that thousands of career criminals who have pleaded guilty to misdemeanors would qualify for a concealed carry permit because they are not convicted felons. They can carry a hidden handgun even though they are a literal menace to public safety. Flynn also said that almost half of those convicted of homicides in 2011 would have been eligible for concealed weapons permits because they had not been convicted of a felony prior to committing murder. For the same reason he further said that about 75% of convicted robbers could get a permit at the time of their crime.


So using Flynn’s “logic,” we all should be denied permits because we might commit a crime in the future. That, in a nutshell, sums up the idiot chief of police mindset rampant in so many Dem-run cities.


16 posted on 04/29/2012 5:53:57 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Jerrybob
Simplest solution there is: Repeal all gun laws.

While most here are happiest to use Detroit as a whipping boy, I see good examples for gun ownership emerging. 90% of violent crimes committed in the city are committed by blacks and 90% of the defensive shootings in the city are done by blacks. That's a good example in my opinion.
17 posted on 04/29/2012 6:13:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: dirtboy

Maybe the Dems would like to try an experiment. Since many in black community are vehemently against guns, then pass a law allowing gun dealers to refuse to sell guns to blacks and illegal for blacks to own guns unless they are LEO or needed for job related. Will gun crimes drop???!!! Discrimination?!!! No because this is what each group wants. Since whites love guns under this arrangement they get to keep their 2A rights, while blacks who oppose guns get to give up their 2A rights. Now everyone is satisfy.//sarcasm squared to the tenth power...heh heh heh heh.


18 posted on 04/29/2012 6:16:49 AM PDT by Fee
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To: rellimpank
In many cases, the victims of the crimes resembled the perpetrators. During the week in Philadelphia, for example, a 20-year-old woman known as Peanut who had five prior criminal convictions and arrests stretching back to the age of 13, was responsible for two shootings on two different days. Her second victim, shot 16 times, was a drug dealer who is now in a wheelchair but refused to cooperate with the police.

Peanut needs a better gun.

These police chiefs refuse to state the obvious, ghetto black on black crime is a direct result of the breakup of the family.

When the brothas refer to each other as "niggas, and their women as hos and bitches", when there is a real reason the most famous two words to come from the ghetto are, "mother-f888er", how can anyone expect respect for the life of human beings.

They live and act the same as wild predators, the law of the jungle applies but even the strong can't survive in a situation without any rules.

Even with the high abortion rates {thanks to planned parenthood and their part in this self inflicted genocide}, the ghetto reproduction rate is 75% bastard births.

With this kind of demonRAT imposed slavery, the blacks have no chance for any kind of normal life without murder and chaos being a daily part of it.

Margaret Sanger is cooking away in hell, but proud as can be about her gift to the world.

19 posted on 04/29/2012 6:17:57 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: Aevery_Freeman
"Chief Art Acevedo of Austin said his officers regularly observed women buying as many as 30 guns, including semiautomatic weapons, at gun shows and then passing them on to men."

I'm calling BS on this too. I regularly attend Austin gun shows and have NEVER seen any such thing. In fact, women are a rarity at these shows and tend to garner lots of attention since the great majority of attendees are white men.

Wait, that's raaaacisssss!!! /s

Austin has a marked history of concerted ant-gun activism by the city gooberment. They HATE gunshows and want the "loophole" closed.

20 posted on 04/29/2012 6:30:07 AM PDT by Kolb (Compone Accomoda Supera)
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To: USS Alaska

As far as I’m concerned “black culture” was an artificial creation of the left to begin with. Just like the pressure to create a “hispanic culture”, its an attempt to divide.


21 posted on 04/29/2012 6:31:13 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: rellimpank
In a single week last April, 3 people were killed with guns in Philadelphia, 14 more were shot and wounded, 68 robberies were carried out at gunpoint and a total of 144 crimes involving firearms were reported. During that same week in San Diego, a city of roughly the same size with far fewer police officers, there were no gun-related homicides, 2 people wounded by gunshots, 4 robberies committed at gunpoint and a total of only 20 gun-related crimes.

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania = 43.4% black.

San Diego County, California = 5.1% black.

Next question?

22 posted on 04/29/2012 6:35:20 AM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: rellimpank
gun violence is tightly concentrated in the poorest urban neighborhoods, its victims mostly minorities

Better description: "gun violence is tightly concentrated in urban neighborhoods with disfunctional families, its perpetrators mostly minorities

23 posted on 04/29/2012 6:48:30 AM PDT by expat2
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To: dirtboy

Gun control is kinda like trying to solve drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.


24 posted on 04/29/2012 6:52:38 AM PDT by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: rellimpank

Gee, what could explain any differences between Philly and San Diego? It’s just a total mystery.


25 posted on 04/29/2012 6:55:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: dirtboy

“I think the issue is culture more so than race”...search South Africa + ANC...then tell us that it’s not aat least a partial function of a depraved race!
Idiot Republicans that shill for Affirmative Action, Section 8 Housing and unlimited emigration are as guilty of losing this country as any leftist!


26 posted on 04/29/2012 7:13:03 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: clee1

You beat me to saying it. I’m not sure I would have said the same words but I would have said something similar.

Crime rates in black society have not always been high like this but they shot up when the Federal Government decided to be the father in our inner city and gave people nothing to do all day other than sit around the TV or deal and use drugs. When Hollywood decided to glorify the “Rap” culture and all the evil it brings, then things went down hill even faster.

Until the 1960’s there was little or no welfare. The poverty rate is higher now than then. 2/3rds of our tax money go to welfare. If we were to stop ALL welfare what would happen? People would have to go to work to live, they wouldn’t have time for all the crime that goes on in the inner city. Our “Progressive” society has ruined our society.

The thing is it isn’t about poverty. Asians are poor but their kids excel in school and then they get out of poverty. Illegal Mexicans and other Latinos come here poor and send their kids to school and they get out of poverty. Why is it that only the Negroes have this problem. It is not a race thing, it is a culture thing. We tell little black kids that all they can expect is to have a baby out of wedlock and live on the Government dime. We tell sixteen year old girls that all they have to do is go and have sex, get knocked up and they can get out of their mothers house and get their own place for free.

We have got to get rid of the idea that we can have sub-cultures in our society. Multiculturalism ruins societies. If you don’t want to be an American then go somewhere your values are the norm.

Again, the crime in our inner-cities have nothing to do with guns. It is all about race. Cities with largely white populations do not have near the crime as black populations. The Black crime is not a factor of race but of culture. As long as black parents teach their kids that beating up women and shooting “The Man” is a good thing it will keep happening. As long as black families teach their kids that it is evil to be like the white “overseer” then we will have problems. As long as we continue to allow terms like whitey and cracker in our society but disallow terms like “nigger” unless you are black we will continue to have problems.

I remember well the 1950’s, at least the early 50’s when blacks were not treated fairly but had their own living areas. We had maids so we went into those areas to pick up our maids and take them home. We were entertained in their homes. The hate was not there. The hate is there now. The young black man hates the white man as a rule. He is taught that from youth. Many black children break the habit of white hate and become productive members of society, even white society.

White society does not hold black people down. Yes there are racist white people, there always will be, but there are people that hate others for their religion, their ugliness and obesity too. We live with it, we turn the other way when we see it but we live with it. It has been my experience that white people as a whole don’t hate any other race.

The world works a lot better without the hate. is a good thing it will keep happening. As long as black families teach their kids that it is evil to be like the white


27 posted on 04/29/2012 7:29:25 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Aevery_Freeman
Chief Art Acevedo of Austin said his officers regularly observed women buying as many as 30 guns, including semiautomatic weapons, at gun shows and then passing them on to men.

BS is absolutly correct.

Average decent handgun = $400.00

30 x $400 = $12,000

A $12,000 cash transaction is reported to what agency again?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148821,00.html

FAQs Regarding Reporting Cash Payments of Over $10,000 (Form 8300)
Filing Requirements
Reportable Transactions
Filing Requirements:
Who must file Form 8300? Any persons who receive more than $10,000 in one transaction or a series of related transactions, while conducting their trade or business, must file a Form 8300.

What payments must be reported?
A business must file Form 8300 to report cash paid to it if the cash payment is:
Over $10,000,

Received as:
One lump sum of over $10,000,
Two or more related payments that total in excess of $10,000,
or Payments received as part of a single transaction (or two or more related transactions) that cause the total cash received within a 12-month period to total more than $10,000.

Received in the course of trade or business,
Received from the same payer (or agent),
and Received in a single transaction or in two or more related transactions.

What is the definition of a transaction?

A transaction is the underlying event resulting in the transfer of cash. Examples include:
Sale of goods, services or real or intangible property
Rental of goods or real or personal property
Cash exchanged for other cash
Establishment, maintenance of or contribution to a trust or escrow account
A loan repayment
Conversion of cash to a negotiable instrument such as a check or a bond

What is a related transaction?
There are two types of related transactions:
Transactions between a buyer, or agent of the buyer, and a seller that occur within a 24-hour period are related transactions.

In addition, transactions more than 24 hours apart are related if the recipient of the cash knows, or has reason to know, that each transaction is one of a series of connected transactions.



.

28 posted on 04/29/2012 7:38:14 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: JAKraig
Crime rates in black society have not always been high like this but they shot up when the Federal Government decided to be the father in our inner city ...

The social engineering foisted on blacks by Ivy League egg-heads has increased the violence, illegitimacy rates, numbers of abortions, numbers in prisons, changed the basic work ethic, and celebrates the degradation in music and film.

If I were a black man in this country, I would be pissed too.

29 posted on 04/29/2012 8:01:35 AM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: rellimpank

They should try encouraging Christianity, it works every time.


30 posted on 04/29/2012 8:11:00 AM PDT by donna (...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way... -Mitt Romney)
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To: rellimpank
Here's a good solution.

....The town north of Atlanta [Kennesaw] had little prominence until it passed a gun ordinance in 1982 that required all heads of a household to own a firearm and ammunition...."When the law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime ... and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then," said police Lt. Craig Graydon. "We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area."....The Kennesaw law has endured as the town's population has swelled to about 30,000 from 5,000 in 1982.
31 posted on 04/29/2012 8:59:43 AM PDT by caveat emptor (Zippity Do Dah)
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To: rellimpank

Surprising enough the article does speak to the problem of black on black crime as to being the difference in stats...


32 posted on 04/29/2012 10:11:01 AM PDT by Popman (America is squandering its wealth on riotous living, war, and welfare.)
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To: PAR35
As long as no one factors in race...

Have no fear, the New York Times wears blinders - they can't see the elephant in the room.

33 posted on 04/29/2012 10:15:31 AM PDT by GOPJ (Obama's father, grandfather and great-grandfather were polygamists.-ALL,including Obama ate dogs!!)
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To: rellimpank

city as of 2010 was:
44.2% Black
39.0% White
Census of 2010,
58.9% White,
6.7% African American

There. Discovered the answer in 8 minutes at a cost of Zero Tax Dollars
You decide which city is which but these numbers provide the answer to the question!


34 posted on 04/29/2012 10:30:25 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: rellimpank
It happens every single day in cities across the country, but if it’s a black killing a black,” no one cares...

No one cares when it's black on black crime because there's no one to shake down for cash from guilty white liberals. Jesse Jackson will not show up. None of the circus members will be there - no cash to be had. No free press from a white liberal elite press - a press that hates conservative white middle class citizens... A press that will send every member available IF a white kills a black...

Black on black crime doesn't open liberal white wallets.

There no benefit for higher voter turn out based on an angry black community when it's black on black. Inner city organizations based on hatred of whites - and blaming them for all 'wrongs' have no payoff standing against black on black crime - they want it ignored...

Black on black crime doesn't allow for white liberal elites to grandstand their 'protection' of blacks... In short, when a black child dies at the hands of a black thug, the only person who cares is the child's mother.

Inner city killing can't be stopped with 'gun control' because a person who will ignore the laws about murder will surely ignore the laws about gun ownership.

35 posted on 04/29/2012 10:32:46 AM PDT by GOPJ (Obama's father, grandfather and great-grandfather were polygamists.-ALL,including Obama ate dogs!!)
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To: JAKraig

Agreed, it is not race so much as subculture. Africa-born blacks don’t like the thug/gangsta lifestyle any more than the average white person does.

However, I don’t see too many gangbangin’ crack dealers and welfare ho’s going to vote.

It is the respectable members of the black community that keep voting for the very policies that are destroying their cities. What is it going to take for that particular demographic to decide they’ve had enough?

Name me ONE black-democrap-run city that isn’t a $h!thole.


36 posted on 04/29/2012 10:34:18 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: rellimpank

In Philadelphia there have been black racist mobs attacking whites. The brains of justice in this city decided these were not hate crimes - just yutes having fun. In criminal justice, you can not arrive at vaild solutions if you can not tell the truth about the problem.

Most criminal gun violence is centered in a certain population as a result of that group’s culture of violence and racism’s hate, resentment and rage. You can not deny everyone their second amendment rights because you have one group that consistently abuses that right.

You put the criminals in jail and you leave everyone else alone. You address that group with mentors and people who can make a difference in the fatherless welfare culture of that group to live like free people with rights and responsibility. Taking on entertainment and diversity hate industries and clearing out gangs would go a long way to reducing gun violence that Phili suffers.


37 posted on 04/29/2012 10:54:35 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Popman

—yep—I thought that was a major breakthrough for the NYT—one of the reasons I posted it-—


38 posted on 04/29/2012 11:43:25 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
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