BREAKING! Rep. Young wants ATF explanation about AK records checks

Seattle Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 25 April, 2012 | Dave Workman

[marktwain]

Alaska Congressman Don Young today demanded to know why agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have been asking gun shop owners in the 49th State for copies of their gun sales records.

As this column reported, ATF agents had contacted gun shops in Anchorage for the bound books which contain information on gun buyers. Federal law prohibits federal agents from doing that, and they know it. Gun rights activists across the Northwest are furious.

The situation has caused an uproar in the firearms community, and Young – a member of the National Rifle Association Board of Directors – is adamant in his two-page letter that he wants answers. Here is a press release Young’s office forwarded to this column:

Rep. Young Demands Answers from ATF

WASHINGTON, D.C. – In a letter sent today, Alaskan Congressman Don Young called on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to explain why its agents have been visiting Alaskan gun dealers and asking for copies of their gun sale records (bound books and 4473 forms). While BATFE agents are permitted to conduct routine compliance inspections, federal law strictly forbids the removal or copying of a Federal Firearms Licensee’s (FFLs) records. “Despite what the law clearly states, I’ve heard from several Alaska gun shop owners who are being hassled by the ATF,” said Rep. Young. “As I have told the gun shop owners, the ATF has no right to either copy or remove their records and if any attempt is made, they should refuse it.” Over the past 30 years, Congress has consistently passed legislation prohibiting the collection of information from gun dealers that would go towards the creation of a list/database of gun owners. In 2011, that prohibition was made permanent.

[marktwain]

The DOJ does not have a good record when it comes to preventing the ATF from breaking the law.

[Gaffer]

There is no further proof needed that this government is your enemy.

[Paladin2]

The BATFE is likely concerned that the records could be suddenly lost in fires or floods or windstorms or eaten by gun shop dogs.

[Oberon]

There is no further proof needed that this government is your enemy.

And it's not just this administration, either. ATF was just as likely to pull crap like this under Clinton or the Bushes.

[Nachum]

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/

[CodeToad]

People need to tell the ATF to get bent. Governors and Sheriffs need to get involved and arrest any agent attempting to threaten their citizens or violate federal laws.

[MestaMachine]

Of interest ping.
What’s up with this?

[MestaMachine]

Of interest ping.
What’s up with this?

[Dead Corpse]

Last word I heard went like this...

At least 4 different AK gun stores were visited by local ATF. Demanded bound books and left with them. Very much against Federal law. 3 of the 4 complied and the last one told 'em to get bent. They are getting harassed now with audits, etc...

Past due time to do away with the unConstitutional ATF. They had a valid mission when all they were doing was collecting a tax. THAT IS NO LONGER THEIR MAIN DUTY. Their main job these days is enforcing every blatant infringement we've allowed Congress to dream up and harm us with.

This must stop.

[stephenjohnbanker]

This has been going on for a few months. I would call my sheriff, if they pulled this on me.

[stephenjohnbanker]

Enough is enough. There is no (clean) reason to demand these hardcover docs.

[familyop]

So they’re walking firearms to Canada now, too?

[advertising guy]

where you gonna be Sept 1st ?

[Dead Corpse]

Exactly. This was a blatantly criminal action by this ATF office. A Federal FELONY.

Every person whose 4473 information was stolen needs to file charges against those ATF agents.

[LucyT]

Alaska Congressman Don Young today demanded to know why agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have been asking gun shop owners in the 49th State for copies of their gun sales records.

As this column reported, ATF agents had contacted gun shops in Anchorage for the bound books which contain information on gun buyers. Federal law prohibits federal agents from doing that, and they know it.

"The BATFE is likely concerned that the records could be suddenly lost in fires or floods or windstorms or eaten by gun shop dogs."

(Thanks for the pings.)

[stephenjohnbanker]

” Every person whose 4473 information was stolen needs to file charges against those ATF agents. “

THAT I would love to see. Most of my friends carry...and they are “clean” back to the fetus!

[bert]

That is a baseless allegation.

No record has been presented of such a groundless speculation

[precisionshootist]

Well that's good on this congressman but he needs to know a couple things.

1. Asking questions and demanding answers from the ATF will get you exactly squat.

2. Stating a goal of making sure this never happens again will GUARANTEE it WILL happen again, repeatedly and more egregiously.

3. The only way to deal with these ATF agents is to set up a sting operation and ARREST THEM! That's right, have gun shop owners wear a wire and with law enforcement outside listening when the ATF agent demands to see and copy 4473 records you move in and ARREST THE ATF AGENTS ON THE SPOT.

These people do not care about losing their jobs or getting caught. They are willing to take that chance and violate the constitution and break the law on the off chance they could get caught. Most of the time a simple apology and then a lucrative promotion will be the only consequence.

We have got to start fighting fire with MORE FIRE. The ATF is a criminal unconstitutional agency.

Sorry for the rant but congressmen like this and their tough talk is a waste of time. We need to put the sting to these crooks. They will back down when they see a few of their buddies lives destroyed with criminal records and jail time.

[Paladin2]

The BATF should be repurposed with the elimination of alcohol, tobacco, firearm and explosive use in Hollywood movies and TV shows.

[marktwain]

That is a baseless allegation. No record has been presented of such a groundless speculation

It was common under the Clinton administration. I did not hear of it under the Bush administration.

[little jeremiah]

September 1st? Is that a special date?

[Paladin2]

TEOTWAWKI.

[advertising guy]

yep...Tea Party Festival....super hugh.....as Drudge would say

... developin

[MrB]

Arresting them is exactly what county sheriffs ought to be doing.

[GregNH]

Enemies Foriegn and Domestic then get it. Here is a great review of the book here How to save a thousand lives (best EFAD review, ever.)

I could not put the book down, and as the reviewer ask. Could this happen?

I think it has started already....

[GregNH]

Yeah.....my tag line....let’s roll....

[GregNH]

Hmmmm my post got truncated. It should read "If you haven't read...and then Enemies Foreign and Domestic should be a hot link to here http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/bookefad.htm

[bgill]

I didn’t keep the link but within the last few months IIRC some gunshop owner was complaining about the feds wanting his books. Looks like this behavior is spreading.

[Rusty0604]

I hope that the 3 dealers that complied and handed the files over go out of business.

[TexasCajun]

Simple!

Obamah wants our guns.

That's what Fast & Furious was all about, to proclaim US guns were responsible for border violence. Yeah, US guns ATF provided to criminals.

[advertising guy]

official announcement is April 30th

[little jeremiah]

That’s why Republicans who are neutered pantswetting bunny rabbits are worse than useless. That’s not even counting the ones who are actually liberals.

[little jeremiah]

You guys are teasing me.

I want something to chew on! (Besides the restraints...)

[little jeremiah]

Hmmm.

If your tagline is something going to happen, makes me wish I lived closer than 3000 miles to DC...

[advertising guy]

not DC....out west

[Paladin2]

Are you at all familiar with the concept of a on-line search?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/TEOTWAWKI

[GregNH]

You could always fly in and rent a truck...;)
Or better yet, fly to NH and ride shotgun with me!

[Elle Bee]

Eyes Up ....Bob Bullard Alert!

.

[Paladin2]

"I hope that the 3 dealers that complied and handed the files over go out of business."

I think that if they close they are supposed to forward the records to the BATF (assuming that their dog didn't eat them). You want the BATF to be justified?

[little jeremiah]

I know what TEOTWAWKI means, I just wondered if you had something specific in mind.

[little jeremiah]

Maybe we could come but we’d have to bring three cats and two are blind...

:-)

[little jeremiah]

Hmm, I’m out west.

[Oberon]

That is a baseless allegation.

No it is not.

No record has been presented...

That would be true, inasmuch as I posted nothing about it in this thread...

...of such a groundless speculation

As I said before, it's not a groundless speculation, and you ought to be more careful at declaring people to be liars without having your facts straight.

Specifically, the Ruby Ridge incident occurred during the presidency of George H. W. Bush, near the end of his tenure as president. Wikipedia had the following synopsis:

Ruby Ridge was the site of a deadly confrontation and siege in northern Idaho in 1992. It involved Randy Weaver, his family, Weaver's friend Kevin Harris, and agents of the United States Marshals Service and Federal Bureau of Investigation. It resulted in the death of Weaver's son Sammy, his wife Vicki, and Deputy US Marshal William Francis Degan.

At the subsequent federal criminal trial of Weaver and Harris, Weaver's attorney Gerry Spence made accusations of "criminal wrongdoing" against every agency involved in the incident: the FBI, USMS, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), and the United States Attorney (USAO) for Idaho. At the completion of the trial, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility formed a Ruby Ridge Task Force to investigate Spence's charges. The 1994 Task Force report was released in redacted form by Lexis Counsel Connect and raised questions with the conduct and policy of all the agencies.

Essentially, ATF attempted to entrap Randy Weaver with an NFA violation, then when he was less than cooperative, they staked out his property with Federal Marshals. When the family dog discovered one such marshal in a clump of trees and started barking, the Fed shot the dog, and that's when the firefight started. FBI snipers subsequently moved in and attempted to murder Weaver, and actually did kill several of the civilians at the site. There's more of the story at the link.

The Waco Siege technically occurred during the Clinton administration, although it happened in February of 1993, or one month into Clinton's first term as president. All the personnel on the ground in that fiasco were personnel who had served during the previous administration. The compound was rushed and then besieged on the basis, again, of trumped-up NFA violations.

[GregNH]

Just spotted this movie trailer. Looks good. Behold a Pale Horse, America's Last Chance

[little jeremiah]

The way I feel now - if Gingrich is really out of the race - is that without some kind of divine intervention along with human action, we’re in for a long haul of hell.

Reading about him giving up is like a punch in the stomach to me.

[little jeremiah]

Will check out the trailer. I don’t watch TV or movies but on the rare occasion will watch a useful one.

[Rusty0604]

So if a gun dealer goes out of business due to lack of sales then they forward the records to BATF? So then the BATF has a right to them? Well, then I hope they had some hungry dogs.

[Paladin2]

"If the business is being discontinued completely, the licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer is required, within 30 days, to forward the business records to the following address:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Tracing Center ATF / Out of Business Records Center 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA Voice 1-800-788-7133 x 1590

Failure to surrender required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to 5 years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business also must notify the Federal Firearms Licensing Center within 30 days."

[Billyv]

Probably looking for info on SARAH’s gun ownership.

[TheOldLady]

Click an eyeball!

Keep Your Eyes on the Prize!

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