Posted on 12/22/2011 11:15:02 AM PST by Eleutheria5
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced Thursday that he would cancel all political, economic and military meetings between representatives of Turkey and France. He also forbade French aircraft from landing in Turkey and said French hsips were no longer welcome in Turkey's ports.
Turkish television reported earlier that Ankara would call back its ambassador from Paris.
The crisis was precipitated by a bill ratified Thursday in the French parliament, according to which denying the 1915 Armenian genocide would be punishable by a jail sentence of up to one year and a 45,000 euro fine. The bill has yet to receive final approval in the senate.
Turkey has been threatening a tough response if the bill is passed. Armenia, meanwhile, expressed its official thanks to France for approving the bill.
Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian told AFP that France had "once again proved its commitment to universal human values".
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
They cut ties with France not just once, but 3 times. This is hugh.
Lol. Hugh and series indeed.
My hand must have shook. That’s what comes of treaties and accords being no better than a handshake.
“Who after all speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” - Hitler, August 22, 1939
Before genocide - 2 million Armenians and 2,000 churches in Ottoman Turkey (formerly Armenia), after genocide 70,000 Armenians and 50 churches.
Turkey is so touchy over this Armenian genocide issue.
I’m taking a college class on the “Holocaust” that focused on this issue. It’s pretty cut and dry. Turkey in the end decided not to try the murderers so a few of the victims family members hunted them down and took vengeance. (just like the Israelis).
Doesn’t this have Turkey violate the NATO Treaty?
Good for France.
Turkey might leave NATO>:`(. Germany hasn’t been this touchy in the 60 years since they last committed genocide.
Wow! I agree with France on this one, for a change.
What French expect Turkey to surrender
I have several estates to recover from France ~ and they have not been cooperative in the least.
"the admission of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey is an issue of secondary importance for us. The following issue must be raised: a cruel crime was committed against the Armenian people. The whole nation was actually annihilated, our lands were seized and our 3,000-year-old culture was destroyed. This is not only a cruel crime, but also a great injustice. Therefore, our true demand is compensation for this injustice. The world must know about what happened, and we have to a great extent succeeded. The Turkish side is well aware that the step to follow the admission of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey will be a demand for compensation and return of the lands. This is the reason why Turkey will not admit the Armenian Genocide . . . ."
So what happens now? the Kurds also demand the same territory -- who by the way were also guilty of murdering hundreds of thousands of Armenians -- as well was Kaiser Wilhelm II German Emperor aware and, some say, abetted the attempted extermination of Russia's ally the Armenians with whom Germany was battling in W.W.I.
I recall that the article admits that Turkey acknowledges the deaths. The horrors did in fact happen. There are elsewhere claims of hundreds of thousands of Turk civilians killed also.. the real issue seems to be territory and retribution demanded of modern Turkey.
(Lawsuits have forced insurance companies to pay Armenians in recent years.)
BTW, speaking of destroying Armenian culture -- how much was destroyed when Armenians were forced under the control of the Bolsheviks? I think Armenia was the first Soviet "republic" established outside of Russia.
Do you imagine there are still people around who were involved in killing Armenians?
When was the last official action taken by the Ottoman Empire? When was the first official action taken by the Republic of Turkey headquartered in Ankara?
How about Arabic and Kurdish speaking soldiers who participated in the killings? Why don't you ask the Iraqis and Syrians, and maybe the Iranians to apologize or something?
What about the Greeks ~ they were part of the Ottoman Empire for several hundred years. That was certainly long enough for Greeks to wend their way into the Porte (and be responsible for this).
It's not as cut and dried as the French want you to believe. In fact, at one time a chunks of France was part of the Islamic Caliphate ~ so some French people are certainly part of the chain of responsibility for the Armenian massacre. Did you ever ask yourself why the French want to make the slightest deviation from their governmental policy on the matter punishable with jail terms?
Forming NATO the member states agreed to give up old claims on the other member states. Obviously France didn't mean it.
Oh no!! Does this mean no more taffy on the Champs Élysées?
(It is kind of neat seeing that Muslims in Europe can be charged -- I guess the guys weren't Islamists or Jihadists.)
So Armenians want this for France, America, et al. also? They have serious issues with the modern Republic of Turkey. We have enough problems. Turkey and Armenia are next door to each other. Start talking! Fat chance! We'll give up California to Mexicorruption before Turkey will give up eastern Turkey to Armenia --- wot? OK. Nevada.
As noted above the issues are territory and retribution -- labeling the horrors of the deaths genocide is not the issue. Modern Turkey admits the horrors (and asks what about the hundreds of thousands of Turk civilians killed.)
I have been relatively in support of the Armenian claims for years, more out of general sympathy for the scale if their losses than intimate knowledge of the details of the issue.
Lately, while at my local Barnes & Noble library, a glanced through a new book on Russian history, leading up to and during WWI.
In that book, they pointed to a lot of evidence, spelling out Russian funding and intrigue in support of Armenian freedom fighters against the Ottomans and then the Turks.
The views of the author were: the Russians were involved in an attempt to undermine the Ottomans and the Turks for their own - Russia’s, possible benefit, and the Ottomans and later the Turks were not deaf, dumb and blind to this intrigue (stirring up and using the Armenians) by Russia.
I am simply noting that this part of the issue was not something I had known about previously - regardless of the pros and cons regarding the author’s views of the issue.
No doubt the Russians were doing that, and the Ottomans were aware. It’s the “therefore let’s kill all Armenians” part that is not justified. Likewise, the Ottomans used the Russian birthplace of many Ashkenazik Jews in Israel to attempt to expel every last Jew in Israel. Naturally, the Jews then fought on the side of the British to instead undermine and drive out the Ottomans.
This wholesale collective punishment thing simply backfired on the Ottomans in the case of the Jews. But since Russia lost WW I, their intrigues with the Armenians back-fired on the Armenians, who were slaughtered en masse. But they were not to blame. The Turks were.
Though the 1917 Revolution took Russia out of W.W.I if I remember history nevertheless the Bolsheviks accepted Russia's ally Armenia as a Soviet "republic."
In the mean time there's Kaiser Wilhelm II's Germany in Turkey.
"German Responsibility in the Armenian Genocide: A Review of the Historical Evidence of German Complicity," by Vahakn N. Dadrian.
I have not read the book. I have read reviews. The author does NOT (repeat, does NOT) excuse the Ottoman Empire -- he documents the German-Turkish alliance that existed at the time of W.W.I. Kaiser Wilhelm II wanted a German - Middle East empire (or at least he wanted German control there). The Republic of Turkey has acknowledged the horror that the Armenians were victims of barbarous Ottoman Empire methods but will not use the word "genocide" for reasons explained in replies above. I honestly believe that Turkey has a valid point asking about the hundreds of thousands of Turk civilians killed by the Ottoman Empire's W.W.I enemies.
"Dadrian thinks that the Armenian genocide is also an issue of international law which the West has failed to address. . . .A commission on these atrocities, which issued its final report on March 29, 1919, accused Turkey and its allies (the Germans) of using barbarous and illegitimate methods against the Armenian citizens. Again, a committee of jurists in 1920, commissioned by the Council of the League of Nations, concluded that the official order to deport the Armenians en masse 'was a violation in international law' (p.l9). Two German generals, Bronsart (on July 25, 1915) and Boemich (on October 3, 1915), who served as members of the military mission in Turkey, are said to be responsible for ordering the Armenian deportation." [My emphasis]
Tens of thousands were forced into Iraq where the Armenians were killed or taken captive (mostly the females) by Kurds. The book contains tons of information and names of German and Ottoman Empire officials and their "barbarous and illegitimate methods against the Armenian citizens."
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