Posted on 03/22/2011 5:36:03 AM PDT by marktwain
With all due respect my FRiend, We're not talking the bush... we're talking the common streets of a common city, you of all people know that tactics flex and bend depending on the situation and/or location.
>> And I will ask one more time. Show me all of the stories about people who OC getting jumped as per your example.
How about at a state-maintained rifle range? Happened to a fella at a West Virginia state-maintained firing range, not long before I visited in summer ‘09. I don’t know the details & am pinging the ‘native’ who hopefully does, but due to timing I had a real uncomfortable couple of seconds while there.
We had one heck of a time finding the spot once inside the park, and my shooting buddy seemed to move slower than usual as we waited for a group to cram into their car and get gone. Later, he casually explained about the man who’d been at that very range previously & was shot dead by someone who wanted his weapon(s).
I strolled to my car to retrieve another gun to fire. A contact picked that moment to pop out of my eye (luckily into the car interior) just as I noticed a pickup approaching the site. So there I was, my friend’s caution fresh in my ears, fumbling frantically for a lost contact with my back/butt to my buddy AND the stranger driving up! [Turned out to be the guy who maintains the range & all was well.] However, I well remember how useless I felt to back up my friend despite having at least one gun strapped on me & several others nearby.
Ever notice that although we have this exact same discussion every single time, they can never pull even one example off the entire internet to bolster their position... gives me a smiley emoticon.
Open carry was not as common as we would like to believe. Yeah maybe on open plains etc yet many towns had restrictions on such even back then.
I want to be able to carry my sidearm safely any way I choose. Be it concealed or open carry. I would select a concealed carry mode 99% of the time I suppose.
Interesting thead....stay safe.
Me too. But I'll be glad if this passes since it will prevent that surprise gust of wind (politician proximity?) from letting me get busted for that surprise "flash."
Sounds like that “firearms store owner” is a Liberal plant.
>>>”I don’t think it’s fair to make those people feel uncomfortable, but the bigger part is, what happens when someone walks up behind the gun owner and pulls the gun out of its holster?
If they can do it with a run-of-the-mill civilian, they can do it with a civilian LEO, too. How often do you hear of that happening? A criminal is looking for a 100% chance of escape (in his mind). He knows that if he only has a 50/50 chance of getting the weapon in a grab - the reality being much lower - that he might die. A criminal does not want to die; he wants to enjoy his ill-gotten gains.
I don’t like OC, but I’m not about to tell a free man what he can or can’t do with his weapon in these United States. The likelihood of losing your open gun in a grab attack is not very likely.
Indeed.
I hear these arguments all of the time from anti-OC people yet there is absolutely nothing to back it up. Ever. (the example cited above at the gun range I would not call a true example as the perp could have shot the guy at the range if he was CCing.....most people at gun ranges carry guns at all times. At least the people I know all do.)
And for the record, I do CC if I am going into an urban environment where I know it would be hostile and I would be vastly outnumbered. Just because one OC’s, does not mean they are stupid.
I will say it again. CC when OC is an option hurts the gun cause since it does not truly show the people all of the law abiding citizens who are carrying every day. The only way to change people’s opinions on guns is over time by slowly changing their perceptions of guns, or more appropriately, their misperceptions of guns.
Truly fighting for a cause means more than simply sending a check to the NRA. Stad tall, walk proud, and be seen with your firearm on your hip. People do not realize how much that helps the gun cause if done correctly.
A little known fact is that here in Michigan open carry has been on the books forever..(conceal carry requires a permit)......However, I’ve never seen anyone exercise that right.
I also know there is a lot of the "keep it hidden so it doesn't scare the sheep" in the firearms community that people from Massad Ayoub on down have tried to justify as "Tactically sound".
I still don't understand how making yourself look like an easy mark protects you from predators.
We can "what if" until the cows come home but it won't change human nature one iota.
I support OC laws and I hope lots of folks OC. But I won’t.
Having a CCW doesn't protect you in any of those situations either. I KNOW you aren't making a case for banning guns altogether, but don't assume that your common street thug is anywhere near as smart as you are.
In general, drunks and shoulder thumpers will go elsewhere at the slightest sign of resistance. They aren't smart enough to set ambushes.
Those that are are the rare types of psychopaths, like the DC shooters, who will kill you no matter how you are carrying. Exactly the types of people we need to be armed against.
I prefer to "carry enough gun". On my budget, I can't afford a $1000 Kimber Ultra Carry II or an $1800 STI Total Eclipse.
In MN, I can wear a jacket that covers my CQC holster just fine for about 8 months out of the year. The other 4 months I either carry my little .22 auto or use the old Thunderwear rig as the occasion allows. I would prefer to be a lot more comfortable and just wear my CQC holster year 'round.
Tactical questions and LEO asshattery aside... It's my Right isn't it?
Rights or availability wasn’t my point....the open carry in the old west was my point. Lots of old pictures “posed” for have firearms yet many random “snapshots” of city streets, small cow towns and larger cities reviewed just don’t show that much open carry.
We’re on same track and agree....I don’t leave the house without my handgun these days either. Don’t travel where such isn’t allowed.....;o)
Individuals right to carry anyway they want safely is what I support.
Stay safe !
I live in CT and have never seen open carry.
Let me see if I can articulate this right...
In the military, you try to be as menacing and devastating as possible. You aren't out to just kill your enemy, you want to destroy his ability to fight back. This is most effective if you simply break his WILL to fight. One man armed with a rock can still fight, if his will to do so is intact.
In battle, you use a number of tactics to evade or engage the enemy to hit him where he is weakest. To catch him off guard. Snipers, SEAL teams, and even fireteams in combat movement try to catch their opponents unawares and vulnerable to attack.
This does not translate back into the regular civilian world. Most criminals are like water, they seek their level via the path of least resistance. They don't hunt down the strongest points of resistance and ambush them. Only the truly psychotic do so and are a danger no matter what precautions you take.
I was never in a combat unit, but even aviation Marines are taught the basics. My theory may not be fully elucidated here, but I think the bones of the reasoning are pretty sound.
Over the past year, there have been innumerable stories posted here of people who CC and are jumped and need to use their firearm.
I have not seen even a single example of that for people who OC.
The “tactical advantage” that people talk of with CC is a myth, like the Yeti.
Not enough data to say one way or the other. It'd make an interesting study. Maybe we could forward the suggestion to someone like John Lott and see if he has any data that might sway the debate a bit.
There may not be enough dats for a peer reviewed journal study, I’ll grant you that.
However, reading the daily stories, one is hard pressed to find ANY examples of people who OC being jumped, whereas this is a fairly common occurrence with people who CC, using stories I have seen here as a guide.
One other thing to mention, with the ubiquitous cameras of modern society, if a perp was not killed outright, attempting a gun grab, he would be looking at guaranteed jail time for attempting a grab.
Why would a perp do that if there are easy pickings down the road?
The answer from the other side on this one is always the same: crickets.
Yes, Federal Law DOES trump State Law when its Constitutionally Sound Law.
Too many liberals use this tactic to subvert the Constitution.
Example: Gun Laws by states infringing the 2nd Amendment.
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