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EPA to allow states address rising ocean acidity
Yahoo News ^ | 11 Mar 10 | GENE JOHNSON

Posted on 03/11/2010 4:47:41 PM PST by I got the rope

EPA to let states address rising ocean acidity By GENE JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer Gene Johnson, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 22 mins ago SEATTLE – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency says it will consider ways the states can address rising levels of carbon dioxide in oceans. The agency on Thursday settled a lawsuit filed last year by the Center for Biological Diversity in San Francisco. The problem stems from oceans absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and results in the rising acidity of the water. It seriously threatens shellfish and other marine life. The lawsuit accused the EPA of acting improperly when it approved a list of impaired waters in Washington state that omitted the state's coastal waters. In the settlement the EPA agrees to hear from the public in developing ways that the states can use the Clean Water Act to regulate pollutants that cause ocean acidification.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agenda; bhoenvironment; bhoepa; epa; globalwarming; oceanacidification
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This is the sickest thing I've ever seen come out of the EPA.

This is a Marxist Coup folks. If you are not actively fighting this...then you better start now.

1 posted on 03/11/2010 4:47:41 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope



"Already the hour is late. Government has laid its hand on health, housing, farming, industry, commerce, education, and to an ever-increasing degree interferes with the people's right to know. ... We approach the point of no return when government becomes so huge and entrenched that we fear the consequences of upheaval and just go along with it."

— Ronald Reagan

2 posted on 03/11/2010 4:57:08 PM PST by glock rocks (Wait, what?)
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To: I got the rope
The blue states will probably try to use this to get extra federal funding to clean up what doesn't need to be cleaned up. Another way to scam the tax payer through stimulus funding.

I wonder if they rushed to get a ruling on this before they tryed to pass the "Cap and trade" crap or what ever it is called now "the clean air act".

3 posted on 03/11/2010 5:00:06 PM PST by ReformedBeckite
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To: I got the rope

This is pure unadulterated steaming male bovine excrement. The ocean acts as a CO2 sink because of phytoplankton. These organisms account for more synthesis of CO2 into O2 than all land-based plants put together.


4 posted on 03/11/2010 5:00:38 PM PST by Hoodat (For the weapons of our warfare are mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.)
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To: I got the rope

the feds ALLOW the states to do things?


5 posted on 03/11/2010 5:01:43 PM PST by plain talk
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To: I got the rope

We’re past the point of being law abiding citizens. F them all, all their rules and regulations. Come and get me.


6 posted on 03/11/2010 5:01:47 PM PST by Indy Pendance (Gone Galt)
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To: I got the rope
The problem stems from oceans absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere

Global warming will take care of that.

The University of Junk Science certainly gets around.

The Center for Biological Diversity. What a Leftest name. The only thing more left would be The Center for Biological Peace and Justice.

There is nothing wrong with our oceans. Even if there were a higher level of CO2 the oceans could only absorb a trace amount. CO2 isn't very soluble in water. When forced into solution it forces back.


7 posted on 03/11/2010 5:14:29 PM PST by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has it limits.)
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To: I got the rope

The frauds at the EPA have got to go. They can take the U.N. frauds with them.


8 posted on 03/11/2010 5:18:59 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (A proud American-American since 1949.)
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To: plain talk
>>the feds ALLOW the states to do things?<<

It's time to feed the Liberty Tree.

9 posted on 03/11/2010 5:24:26 PM PST by afnamvet (Patriots Rising)
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To: I got the rope

>settled a lawsuit filed last year by the Center for Biological Diversity in San Francisco.

If Iran or some other worthless muzzy gets a nuke and uses it on these leftist waste of human flesh in SF I
will not weep. They and this America destroying pack of
trash in DC have got to be stopped.


10 posted on 03/11/2010 5:25:52 PM PST by soycd
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To: oyez

Yep...it is the largest sink for CO2. It is beneficial for marine plant and animal life (carbonate shells).

The amount of pseudo-science the EPA and the Marxist Center for Biological Diversity uses...is staggering.

The EPA has been taken over by totalitarian thugs.


11 posted on 03/11/2010 5:38:26 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: oyez

Yep...it is the largest sink for CO2. It is beneficial for marine plant and animal life (carbonate shells).

The amount of pseudo-science the EPA and the Marxist Center for Biological Diversity uses...is staggering.

The EPA has been taken over by totalitarian thugs.


12 posted on 03/11/2010 5:38:26 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope

NOTE TO EPA: We the People, as members of the several States, confer rights to you, not the other way around.


13 posted on 03/11/2010 5:39:29 PM PST by matt1234
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To: matt1234

EPA could use it’s resources better to study genetically modified organisms in farming and pharma which they have approved without study. High fructose corn syrup would be a great start.. what happened to cane sugar?


14 posted on 03/11/2010 5:49:24 PM PST by acapesket
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To: I got the rope

Gee, I wonder if they ever stopped for one nanosecond to consider that much of the sand in the ocean and many of the creatures shells are made of Calcium Carbonate.

So they are telling us CO2 is going to turn the entire ocean into a giant bubbling cauldron?

IDIOTS!


15 posted on 03/11/2010 5:58:50 PM PST by Clay Moore (Roaches, predators, and thieves typically work under the cover of darkness. So it is with congress.)
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To: I got the rope
The carbonate radical is the backbone of marine life. For every molecule of carbon dioxide dissolved in the ocean there is an organism that will take it up. Actually most CO2 goes back into the atmosphere. Nature gets the rest.

For the EPA types, nothing is good enough for them. We solved the acid rain problem nearly 20 years ago. Was credit give? No. The environmentalists went looking for another problem to to create and exaggerate.

16 posted on 03/11/2010 6:13:30 PM PST by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has it limits.)
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To: soycd

You wouldn’t care if a major American city was wiped out by an Iranian nuke? With all due respect, that is the most un-American steaming pile of crap I’ve ever read here on FR. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.


17 posted on 03/11/2010 6:15:23 PM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: oyez

The NEXT BIG THING for WORLD SOCIALISTS...Globull Warming wasn’t quite so successful...

NOW the new CRISIS will be INCREASING ACIDITY OF OCEANS.

Same SCAM, different wrapper.

We’ll all be told we must surrender our personal property, wealth and freedoms to the Government in order to avoid complete catastrophe.


18 posted on 03/11/2010 6:19:27 PM PST by Mister Muggles (.Seattle: A city full of Liberal men with vaginas.)
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To: acapesket
High fructose corn syrup would be a great start.. what happened to cane sugar?

Not sure, can still get it. They just don't use it in processed foods anymore.

Anyways I used to think diet drinks gave me a headache from the sweetener they used. Then I found some throwback sodas that use real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. Same headaches. Wasn't the diet sweetener, it was the lack of whatever they do to high fructose corn syrup that was giving the headaches.

19 posted on 03/11/2010 6:28:22 PM PST by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: I got the rope

There are about 342543511 cubic miles of water in the oceans (think of a cube 700 miles along each edge!). I’m impressed if we can change the pH enough to matter - considering that we have about 60,000,000,000 gallons per person.


20 posted on 03/11/2010 6:39:40 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
You wouldn’t care if a major American city was wiped out by an Iranian nuke? With all due respect, that is the most un-American steaming pile of crap I’ve ever read here on FR. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Well, in his defense he wasn't talking about an American city. He was talking about San Francisco.

21 posted on 03/11/2010 6:53:55 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Hoodat

Hoodat wrote:

This is pure unadulterated steaming male bovine excrement.


I’m sure your right on track
A lot of the beaches here in California are often closed because of Sewage Leaks into the Bays and nearby beaches.
I stay away from the beaches because the last thing i want is some bacterial sickness from wadding in someone’s excrement. :o)


22 posted on 03/11/2010 7:23:09 PM PST by 1FASTGLOCK45 (FreeRepublic: More fun than watching Dem'Rats drown like Turkeys in the rain! ! !)
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To: Pollster1
This one is easy.

People swim in the ocean. When swimming they pee in the ocean. Make a law to stop peeing in the ocean. Problem solved!

23 posted on 03/11/2010 7:26:09 PM PST by Flint
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To: I got the rope

24 posted on 03/11/2010 7:58:41 PM PST by seawolf101
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Fraud is right.

Please ignore the CO2 system on all major salt water aquarium systems.

25 posted on 03/11/2010 8:02:13 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: Clay Moore

http://sciencewatch.com/dr/fbp/2009/09aprfbp/09aprfbpRod/


26 posted on 03/11/2010 8:02:13 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: Pollster1

The acidity would have to change at least a 100 times to start harming marine life.

BUT...think about this...higher levels of CO2 would mean that the CO2 would start to precipitate out as calcium carbonate...even higher levels would precipitate out as gypsum. If it were extremely high it would precipitate out as dolomite. Ocean acidification due to man-made CO2 is impossible.


27 posted on 03/11/2010 8:02:13 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: Jim Robinson; Admin Moderator
So am I going to get this message everytime I post now?

"Thank you for your contribution. Your comment has been submitted for review."

28 posted on 03/11/2010 8:08:41 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope
The Real Ocean Acidification Story
Volume 13, Number 9: March 3, 2010

In the most comprehensive analysis ever conducted of experimental studies that have explored the effects of rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations on marine biota, Hendriks et al. (2010) assembled a database of 372 experimentally-evaluated responses of 44 different marine species to ocean acidification that was induced by equilibrating seawater with CO2-enriched air. This they did because, as they describe it, "warnings that ocean acidification is a major threat to marine biodiversity are largely based on the analysis of predicted changes in ocean chemical fields," which are derived from theoretical models that do not account for numerous biological phenomena and have only "limited experimental support."

Of the published reports they scrutinized, only 154 assessed the significance of responses relative to controls; and of those reports, 47 reported no significant response, so that "only a minority of studies," in their words, demonstrated "significant responses to acidification." And when the results of that minority group of studies were pooled, there was no significant mean effect. Nevertheless, the three researchers found that some types of organisms and certain functional processes did exhibit significant responses to seawater acidification. However, since their analyses to this point had included some acidification treatments that were extremely high, they repeated their analyses for only those acidification conditions that were induced by atmospheric CO2 concentrations of 2000 ppm or less, which latter limiting concentration had been predicted to occur around the year 2300 by Caldeira and Wickett (2003).

In this second analysis, Hendriks et al. once again found that the overall response, including all biological processes and functional groups, was not significantly different from that of the various control treatments, although calcification was reduced by 33 +/- 4.5% and fertility by 11 +/- 3.5% across groups, while survival and growth showed no significant overall responses. And when the upper limiting CO2 concentrations were in the range of 731-759 ppm, or just below the value predicted by the IPCC (2007) for the end of the 21st century (790 ppm) -- calcification rate reductions of only 25% were observed. What is more, the three researchers say that this decline "is likely to be an upper limit, considering that all experiments involve the abrupt exposure of organisms to elevated pCO2 values, while the gradual increase in pCO2 that is occurring in nature may allow adaptive and selective processes to operate," citing the work of Widdicombe et al. (2008) and noting that "these gradual changes take place on the scale of decades, permitting adaptation of organisms even including genetic selection."

Yet even this mitigating factor is not the end of the good news, for Hendriks et al. write that "most experiments assessed organisms in isolation, rather than [within] whole communities," and they say that the responses of other entities and processes within the community may well buffer the negative impacts of CO2-indced acidification on earth's corals. As an example, they note that "sea-grass photosynthetic rates may increase by 50% with increased CO2, which may deplete the CO2 pool, maintaining an elevated pH that may protect associated calcifying organisms from the impacts of ocean acidification."

In describing another phenomenon that benefits corals, the researchers write that "seasonal changes in pCO2 are in the range of 236-517 ppm in the waters of the northern East China Sea (Shim et al., 2007)," and that "metabolically-active coastal ecosystems experience broad diel changes in pH, such as the diel changes of >0.5 pH units reported for sea grass ecosystems (Invers et al., 1997)," which they say represent "a broader range than that expected to result from ocean acidification expected during the 21st century." And they remark that these fluctuations also "offer opportunities for adaptation to the organisms involved."

Hendriks et al. additionally state that the models upon which the ocean acidification threat is based "focus on bulk water chemistry and fall short

http://www.co2science.org/subject/o/oceanacidification.php

29 posted on 03/11/2010 8:17:30 PM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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Part of that CO2 Science piece I just posted is missing. Here’s the end of it:

“Hendriks et al. additionally state that the models upon which the ocean acidification threat is based focus on bulk water chemistry and fall short of addressing conditions actually experienced by [marine] organisms,” which are “separated from the bulk water phase by a diffusive boundary layer,” adding that “photosynthetic activity” — such as that of the zooxanthellae that are hosted by corals — “depletes pCO2 and raises pH (Kuhl et al., 1995) so that the pH actually experienced by organisms may differ greatly from that in the bulk water phase (Sand-Jensen et al., 1985).”

Last of all, the insightful scientists note that “calcification is an active process where biota can regulate intracellular calcium concentrations,” so that “marine organisms, like calcifying coccolithophores (Brownlee and Taylor, 2004), actively expel Ca2+ through the ATPase pump to maintain low intracellular calcium concentrations (Corstjens et al., 2001; Yates and Robbins, 1999).” And they say that “as one Ca2+ is pumped out of the cell in exchange for 2H+ pumped into the cell, the resulting pH and Ca2+ concentrations increase the CaCO3 saturation state near extracellular membranes and appear to enhance calcification (Pomar and Hallock, 2008),” so much so, in fact, that they indicate “there is evidence that calcification could even increase in acidified seawater, contradicting the traditional belief that calcification is a critical process impacted by ocean acidification (Findlay et al., 2009).”

In summation, Hendriks et al. write that the world’s marine biota are “more resistant to ocean acidification than suggested by pessimistic predictions identifying ocean acidification as a major threat to marine biodiversity,” noting that this phenomenon “may not be the widespread problem conjured into the 21st century” by the world’s climate alarmists. We agree, having reached much the same conclusion back at the turn of the last millennium (Idso et al., 2000). Hence, we are happy to endorse Hendriks et al.’s conclusion that “biological processes can provide homeostasis against changes in pH in bulk waters of the range predicted during the 21st century.”

Sherwood, Keith and Craig Idso


30 posted on 03/11/2010 8:22:22 PM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: I got the rope

IMO the whole “ocean acidification” terminology is intentional scare mongering.

In actual fact the oceans are still quite basic and even the scare mongerers admit they will remain basic. Since the pH of the ocean remains on the basic side, it is inaccurate to refer to it as acidificaton.

The “adicification” they talk about, if it is occurring, which is debatable, is a slight decrease in the pH, bringing it a little closer to neutral. It would have to go past neutral to become acidic.

But acidification sounds so much more scary than “becoming slightly less basic.”


31 posted on 03/11/2010 8:26:28 PM PST by Sherman Logan ( .)
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To: Hoodat

This is pure unadulterated steaming male bovine excrement. The ocean acts as a CO2 sink because of phytoplankton. These organisms account for more synthesis of CO2 into O2 than all land-based plants put together.


You said it better than I could have. LOL


32 posted on 03/11/2010 8:37:53 PM PST by unkus
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To: Sherman Logan
But acidification sounds so much more scary than “becoming slightly less basic.”

Well, if it's acidification - I get that!

Baking soda takes care of it :>))

33 posted on 03/11/2010 8:38:02 PM PST by libertarian27 (Land of the FEE, home of the SHAMED)
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To: I got the rope

This group needs to be banned, broken, or whatever mechanism would “allow” them to know longer exist!! They will ALLOW the states.................indeed!


34 posted on 03/11/2010 8:41:47 PM PST by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: plain talk

That was my take too.


35 posted on 03/11/2010 8:45:02 PM PST by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Now there is a position I can get behind!


36 posted on 03/11/2010 8:46:38 PM PST by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: I got the rope

A new outrage from this administration every single day.


37 posted on 03/11/2010 9:05:50 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Truth - Reality through the eyes of God.)
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To: I got the rope

I dont suppose that this could have anything to do with municipalities dumping billions of gallons daily of partially treated sewage into the ocean along the west coast. The sewage is treated with acid to cut bacteria


38 posted on 03/11/2010 10:45:07 PM PST by KTM rider ( ..........tell me this really isn't happening ! !)
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To: I got the rope

how long can this terrorist group, epa, be allowed to breath our air?


39 posted on 03/12/2010 1:57:19 AM PST by SF_Redux
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Ever spend much time in the SF Bay Area?


40 posted on 03/12/2010 3:15:28 AM PST by chilltherats (First, kill all the lawyers (now that they ARE the tyrants).......)
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To: I got the rope

Lubchenko from NOAA was parading this tripe before Congress a few months ago. She had demonstrations with vinegar, dry ice, sea water, etc. that left the Congresscritters positively agog.

I’ll see if I can find the videos of the hearing.


41 posted on 03/12/2010 4:10:47 AM PST by Roccus (Hawaii Hall of Records safe from tsunami......Obama saddened.)
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To: I got the rope

Here ya go. It takes a bit to load, then scroll down to Lubchenko’s “demonstration.”

http://globalwarming.house.gov/pubs?id=0014#main_content

Her claims are totally outrageous.


42 posted on 03/12/2010 4:23:40 AM PST by Roccus (Hawaii Hall of Records safe from tsunami......Obama saddened.)
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To: I got the rope

I was getting it for a while, but it finally went away.
It became my tag line as a memorial.


43 posted on 03/12/2010 4:24:46 AM PST by Repeal The 17th (Thank you for your contribution. Your comment has been submitted for review.)
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To: ETL

PING to #42 in case you haven’t seen it.


44 posted on 03/12/2010 4:25:17 AM PST by Roccus (Hawaii Hall of Records safe from tsunami......Obama saddened.)
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To: I got the rope

Dude, you’re getting that message because you started talking smack about dolomite precipitation.

The Partial Pressure Absorption Mod may seem to have a cushy job, but when a poster starts to dabble with CaCO3 deposition, that’s when he earns his pay.


45 posted on 03/12/2010 4:58:45 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: chilltherats

I’ve been there once or twice. Some crazy people, sure. Some leftist idiots, sure. But it’s still an American city, and the people who live there are still Americans. Are you seriously saying you wouldn’t be upset if it was wiped out?


46 posted on 03/12/2010 5:06:01 AM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: ETL

The Idsos are awesome!


47 posted on 03/12/2010 7:27:05 AM PST by I got the rope
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To: agere_contra

I’m back! I actually wrote out an opus and tried to post it too. Looks like the Mods killed it.

Man...I was highly upset last night. I had all this cool stuff in my head that I wanted to post, but I was getting frustrated at the delay.

Oh well.


48 posted on 03/12/2010 7:33:46 AM PST by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope

I have an idea — remove all of that evil oil from the ocean, and maybe it will produce less CO2.


49 posted on 03/12/2010 8:04:57 AM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

I would not be upset and I don’t consider the people who live there to be Americans (none are Americans in spirit and well over half were not born here and are here illegally), and I’m including the entire metropolitan area in that. And I won’t even go into what has resulted from their official “sanctuary” policies of hiding violent criminals who are here illegally and their refusal to ever contact ICE, their hatred for the military, or the Castro district, which has the largest concentration of radical homosexuals in the country. For example, they openly, on the sidewalks, have anal sex with each other while completely naked and routinely invade churches to disrupt services. Then there’s Berkeley right across the bay. The entire area is an America-hating, Marxist mecca. Ron Dellums, Barbara Smith, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer - all Marxist politicians, all from that area.

I could go on for pages.


50 posted on 03/12/2010 12:11:38 PM PST by chilltherats (First, kill all the lawyers (now that they ARE the tyrants).......)
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