Posted on 12/31/2009 4:37:24 PM PST by TheConservativeCitizen
Of course that is correct. And it is fine for people who disagree in one area to band together to support a cause on which they DO agree. I'd be fine with signing the MD if it said something like, "while we all disagree on various aspects of the gospel of Jesus Christ, we DO agree on sanctity of life, traditional marriage and freedom of religious expression..."
When I’ve helped at missions who help the poor and have volunteered to help the church with sermons at the same places, the people know that the way they are being helped is a direct result of the Gospel message of Salvation and not of simply “good works” and merely for “helping” people.
It’s part of the actual “help” in that the Gospel is given first and foremost even before any consideration of the help itself. And then any help, in the way of food or clothes or any other kind of assistance is given.
NOW..., if this organization were to set out the Gospel Message of Salvation as the first priority in their organization and all that it does and for all the actions that it is taking, then I would consider things differently.
But, I doubt anyone every hears the Gospel Message of Salvation and what is required in order for one to be saved, from the lake of fire and certain eternal damnation, even if they do all the good in the world.
I would make the Gospel message the first priority of any meeting, of any statement to others and to anyone who has the least little thing to do with it. And, in addition, I would make darned sure that all who participate actually do know what it takes in order to be saved, and is actually saved.
And so, you have this group do those two things (give the Gospel Message at every event or talk — and — their organizational priorities after that), at the same time (i.e., chew gum and also walk...) then I would reconsider, like I said...
“Who says it “supplants” the obligation to make disciples of all nations? I believe this is an example of the either/or fallacy.
There is a proper order of religious obligations in this life, and the worship of God must always be #1. Every other good thing is subordinate to that, but flows from it and is harmonious with it.
Action for justice in culture, in custom, and in law is a constitutive element of the preaching of the Gospel.
AMEN! That’s why I signed it!!!!!!!!!!
Or even “we all profess a faith in Jesus Christ as savior of the world and personal savior, and that from this comes... [whatever].” Sometimes it’s not helpful to highlight the “protest” part of “Protestant.” I really admire the way C. S. Lewis, for one, brought the branches of the creed together in his books.
I’m not arguing theology of salvation with John MacArthur, but Christians are supposed to be salt and light. They are supposed to change the world, and they have done so in the past. How is he contributing to that? I ask again: Is there absolutely nothing good in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Is there no reason at all to join with them against forces which are downright Satanic? Is there no difference to him between the RCC church and the “church of Marx”?
Are you suggesting we can only do the “one” thing.
A CALL OF CHRISTIAN CONSCIENCE
Christians, when they have lived up to the highest ideals of their faith, have defended the weak and vulnerable and worked tirelessly to protect and strengthen vital institutions of civil society, beginning with the family.
We are Orthodox, Catholic, and evangelical Christians who have united at this hour to reaffirm fundamental truths about justice and the common good, and to call upon our fellow citizens, believers and non-believers alike, to join us in defending them. These truths are:
Inasmuch as these truths are foundational to human dignity and the well-being of society, they are inviolable and non-negotiable. Because they are increasingly under assault from powerful forces in our culture, we are compelled today to speak out forcefully in their defense, and to commit ourselves to honoring them fully no matter what pressures are brought upon us and our institutions to abandon or compromise them. We make this commitment not as partisans of any political group but as followers of Jesus Christ, the crucified and risen Lord, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
If I can put it broadly, the church (all saved Christians) seeks to embrace the willing stranger into a shared relationship with the eternal Savior who provides for all. That’s the end game. Heaven come to earth but is not glued down to the mortal coil, it goes with you always.
Salvation through faith in Christ as the only way is absolutely first and nothing comes before that. All else is absolutely secondary...
As Jesus said, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul....
Thus, salvation is first, first, first...
I like C.S. Lewis's writings too. But I'm not Protestant (or Catholic either, for that matter). The reformers didn't reform enough, and even practiced catholic-like punishment of "heretics" with whom they disagreed. I'm averse to "come together, right now, over me" theology.... unless it comes together around the cross and resurrection of Jesus.
It’s ok to bend hell.. it’s even better to break it.
Good works are often the “bait” on the “hook” so to speak in the fishing of men. My church does charitable outreaches especially at Christmas time but expects that of itself to do no more than get the people to know about us, or the Christian church in general. But God draws further, and so our work in that vein is far from vain.
If I can put it broadly, the church (all saved Christians) seeks to embrace the willing stranger into a shared relationship with the eternal Savior who provides for all.
And there is only one way to that relationship, and it's only by accepting the one and only way that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob provided, by way of the Messiah of Israel -- according to the Gospel...
That message comes first, first and first... before all else...
The Bible says in Romans 10 about salvation...
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
It's the Gospel Message that is the salvation for all who hear and who accept...
1 Corinthians Chapter 15 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
As good fishers, we don’t confuse bait with hook. But as we watch God’s design, not a lot of catching happens with a bare hook.
Maybe stick that on your freep page :-)
Good works are often the “bait” on the “hook” so to speak in the fishing of men.
Then if that's the case in your mind, one should make it very clear to those who are receiving the good works, along with those who are giving the good works -- that if all that was involved in the process was the good works, and it was the best good works in the history of the world, that would only merit a person a place in Hell and in Eternal Torment. No less would come from God for all the good works that a person could do for their entire lives.
Their good works are worthless according to God for salvation. The good works are totally worthless.
Everyone doing good works should be reminded of that every single day that they get up that not a single good work that they do will keep them out the "Hell-fires" of the lake of fire...
And everyone who is receiving those good works should also be told that the person who is giving them is not saved on the basis of anything that they do, no matter how good or perfect it is, because all that they do is worthless in God's sight, for anyone's salvation.
That person receiving those "good works" should know this without a doubt, the minute they take those "good works" or the "job" has "failed".
Fellow FReeper “salamander” and I look after the interests of cold-blooded, slimy vertebrates here. Someone has to do it.
As good fishers, we don’t confuse bait with hook. But as we watch God’s design, not a lot of catching happens with a bare hook.
Salvation, itself, is the work of God and no one else, through Jesus, the Messiah of Israel -- and it's not from any person and it's not from any organization and it's not from any church and it's not from any human agency of any kind.
But, "giving the message" of salvation -- is the work of those who are already saved through Jesus, the Messiah of Israel's finished work on the cross, and from the message of the Gospel in the Word of God, itself.
Thus, the "job" of the Christian is giving the message of salvation. The job of God is to do the actual "saving" -- not the giver of the message, whether it be a person, a pastor, an organization or a church.
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