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Unrepealable? (DeMint questions about rules changes in bill requiring 2/3 vote and senate adjourns)
NRO ^ | 12/22/09 | Rober Costa

Posted on 12/22/2009 8:56:56 AM PST by cornelis

Sen. Jim DeMint (R., S.C.) has thumbed through Harry Reid's manager's amendment and discovered some "particularly troubling" rule-change provisions, especially with regards to the proposed Independent Medicare Advisory Board, which he finds could be unrepealable:


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhohealthcare; demint; healthcare; military; obama; obamacare; palin; ruleschange; senate; twothirds
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Watch this carefully.

DeMint challenges Democrates on rules

1 posted on 12/22/2009 8:56:57 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

The bill on its face is unconstitutional regardless of the content since Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate health care.


2 posted on 12/22/2009 9:00:17 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! www.FairTaxNation.com)
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To: cornelis

DEMINT: and so the language you see in this bill that specifically refers to a change in a rule is not a rule change, it’s a procedure change?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: that is correct.

DEMINT: then I guess our rules mean nothing, do they, if they can redefine them. Thank you. and I do yield back.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER: the senate stands adjourned until 7:00 a.m. tomorrow.


3 posted on 12/22/2009 9:00:20 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

This sets up a complete dictatorship by our government. It must be illegal according to our Constitution. Each State needs to file suit in Superior Court and do it now before a vote is taken.


4 posted on 12/22/2009 9:01:01 AM PST by RC2
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To: cornelis

I’d ride this ship all the way down Reid’s throat ever chance I got on the Senate floor or before a camera.


5 posted on 12/22/2009 9:01:19 AM PST by cranked
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To: cornelis

Basically, the Democrats have conveniened a constitutional convention where only THEY get to vote. It is illegal to bind future legislative bodies.

Textbooks used to call this tyranny.


6 posted on 12/22/2009 9:03:01 AM PST by Obadiah (Obama: Chains you can believe in!)
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To: cornelis
THE PRESIDING OFFICER: the senate stands adjourned until 7:00 a.m. tomorrow.

Reid was counting every minute to try to squeeze in the minimum required debate time after invoking cloture to get to the vote on Christmas Eve. Did this 11.5 hour adjournment screw up that time, or it the time when the Senate isn't in session between this adjournment (7:30 last night) until 7am today included in the post-cloture debate time?

7 posted on 12/22/2009 9:03:06 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Gore is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse. He rides an icy horse bringing cold wherever he goes.)
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To: cornelis

later look.


8 posted on 12/22/2009 9:03:07 AM PST by marvlus
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To: Man50D; holdonnow; Clintonfatigued; romanesq; justiceseeker93; ElkGroveDan; rodguy911; SkyPilot; ...

Can we mobilize a huge team of conservative lawyers to file suit against these thugs (US Congress) as a group and individually?


9 posted on 12/22/2009 9:04:53 AM PST by ExTexasRedhead (Clean the RAT/RINO Sewer in 2010 and 2012)
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To: cornelis

Brilliant.


10 posted on 12/22/2009 9:05:04 AM PST by kabar
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To: cornelis

particularly troubling” rule-change provisions,

These people are going to use rules towards us because they know we follow them.


11 posted on 12/22/2009 9:05:46 AM PST by ColdOne (ColdOne (Merry Christmas))
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To: cornelis

I’m going to re-watch and read this for a full understanding. It seems that we actually have bona-fide tyrants in the Senate.


12 posted on 12/22/2009 9:05:59 AM PST by Loud Mime (Liberalism is a Socialist Disease)
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To: cornelis

This makes the Republicans, Disidente Juan McCain in particular, look like the boobs they are for always ceding power when they get it. They play nice when they should be hard as steel.

When the Democrats get in power they play for keeps.


13 posted on 12/22/2009 9:06:40 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (:: The government will do for health care what it did for real estate. ::)
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To: cornelis

This won`t make it to the USSC, and even if it did the courts are so enraptured with judicial activism they`ll find in favor of the US govt.

Article I, Section 5:

Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.


14 posted on 12/22/2009 9:06:54 AM PST by Para-Ord.45
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To: cornelis

If this travesty is unrepealable, then there is only one action to take.


15 posted on 12/22/2009 9:07:41 AM PST by The_Media_never_lie
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To: Loud Mime

Indeed
and it seems there is NOTHING we can do
Stunning
MSM will not report on the tyranny being brought down on us


16 posted on 12/22/2009 9:08:38 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: cornelis

bookmark


17 posted on 12/22/2009 9:08:38 AM PST by massmike (...So this is what happens when OJ's jury elects the president....)
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To: Obadiah
It is illegal to bind future legislative bodies.

It's not illegal, you just can't do it. Future Congress can always do whatever they want, including modifying any provision that requires a supermajority.

18 posted on 12/22/2009 9:09:24 AM PST by Publius Valerius
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To: The_Media_never_lie

Repeal the Congress.


19 posted on 12/22/2009 9:09:41 AM PST by Tuxedo (The seeds of the next Revolution are sown....)
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To: cornelis

not clear on how anything can be “unrepealable” that is set by a vote.

wont a future vote just undo it?


20 posted on 12/22/2009 9:12:20 AM PST by beebuster2000
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To: Jeff Chandler
This makes the Republicans, Disidente Juan McCain in particular, look like the boobs

So far DeMint is the only Senator I respect.

21 posted on 12/22/2009 9:13:18 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

Of course there is no such thing as irreversible. They cannot bind future Congresses.


22 posted on 12/22/2009 9:14:53 AM PST by GeronL
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To: cornelis

If Congress makes this mess future Congresses can undo it especially if liberal Democrats are banned from our shores. Congress in passing this has just made legal in the US what Dr. Mengele was doing at Auschwitz...determining at whim who will live and who will die.


23 posted on 12/22/2009 9:15:53 AM PST by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: beebuster2000

Did you watch DeMint?


24 posted on 12/22/2009 9:17:41 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

especially after that dirtbag McConnel did his best trent lott impesonation in responding to Reid’s “can’t we just get along” He is all pal’s with reid all of a sudden. Did his best to give Reid a Lewinski in the senate chamber.

Makes me want to puke.. but a RINO is a RINO and we will keep getting more of the same until we get rid of all these little “r” dirtbags


25 posted on 12/22/2009 9:18:40 AM PST by HiramQuick (work harder ... welfare recipients depend on you!)
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To: RWGinger
it seems there is NOTHING we can do

Not NOTHING.

See tag line.

Heh Claire, is it time YET?

26 posted on 12/22/2009 9:21:59 AM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: cornelis

Senator DeMint - take this bill down, either as it stands or take it to the SCOTUS, and the 2012 GOP nomination is yours if you want it...


27 posted on 12/22/2009 9:22:41 AM PST by RockinRight (The sleeping giant has been awoken, and he's PISSED.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

The Republicans’ “my dear friend so-and-so” needs to stop, too. Hey, if you guys want a “friend,” get a dog. The current party in power is not your friend! I guess the Repubs are afraid of not being invited to all the right cocktail parties. Most of them haven’t learned the life lesson that it really is better to be respected—and, dare I say, feared—than smarmily loved and popular.


28 posted on 12/22/2009 9:23:23 AM PST by 1951Boomer
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To: Jeff Chandler

I agree. That nonsense about not descending to the level of Democrats and remaining “above the fray” has resulted in constant losses to the Democrats.

I am thouroughly disgusted with the Republican Party. It is going to go the way of the Torys and other extinct political Parties.


29 posted on 12/22/2009 9:23:29 AM PST by SkipW
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To: Para-Ord.45

If this bill includes a senate rules change (which it does), it would require a two thirds vote to pass. They’d never get it if the Republicans hold together.

Go DeMint!!


30 posted on 12/22/2009 9:23:34 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: cornelis

Unless Jim DeMint IMMEDIATELY leaves the GOP and joins my Third Party, he’s a rotten, stinkin’ RINO!!!1!1!!


31 posted on 12/22/2009 9:24:41 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives unite behind conservative Republicans in the primaries!)
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To: El Gato

Good idea
and we should act before odumbo gets his new federal troops in place. he signed the order for it in late spring.


32 posted on 12/22/2009 9:24:41 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: HiramQuick

been trying to get hold of McConnell’s office to tell him to grow a pair and stand up for the people instead of playing nice with Reid. Lines are busy - email contact form is not working. Did get a fax to go through. Slam his damn office with faxes if need be - don’t let him get away with this “rodney king” impersonation.


33 posted on 12/22/2009 9:24:58 AM PST by Chickenhawk Warmonger (The Media Lied & Soldiers Died)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Vote third party because bug > windshield.


34 posted on 12/22/2009 9:25:54 AM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult (The man who said "there's no such thing as a stupid question" has never talked to Helen Thomas.)
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To: cranked

uh...... did you hear the mealy-mouthed Mitch McConnell... the GOP is not going to do anything, they are a bunch of spaghetti-spine wimps.


35 posted on 12/22/2009 9:28:18 AM PST by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Man50D
The bill on its face is unconstitutional regardless of the content since Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate health care.

And I believe there are two or three US Supreme Court decisions that specifically say that.
36 posted on 12/22/2009 9:28:54 AM PST by djf (Invest now! Buy paper! Earn interest! That's more paper!! (A little soy sauce and you CAN eat it!)
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To: cornelis

Unbelievable. I have never seen such tyranny in our legislative process.


37 posted on 12/22/2009 9:29:52 AM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: beebuster2000

Yes, but with a two-thirds majority. The Dems haven’t been below one-third in this or the past century.


38 posted on 12/22/2009 9:31:49 AM PST by kabar
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To: wildbill
I have never seen such tyranny in our legislative process.

It's a stretch to call it a legislative process.
39 posted on 12/22/2009 9:33:01 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! www.FairTaxNation.com)
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To: wildbill

I meet people like that chair (Sen. Merkley) more and more— teacher, realtors, bankers, contractors, the list goes on. We have a disease that is growing.


40 posted on 12/22/2009 9:34:27 AM PST by cornelis
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To: Man50D

“The bill on its face is unconstitutional regardless of the content since Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate health care.”

I suspect it hurts us to take absurd positions like this. The bill may be unconstitutional; but if so, it is not because “Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate health care.” There are likely equal protection problems (the Nelson payoff, among others), and some of the bill likely stretches the interstate commerce clause farther than a moderate Supreme Court can accept.

If all the businesses in your area decided they would not do business with Christians, I doubt you would be saying that “Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate” discrimination based on religious principles (which it does not, of course).

By the way, I am convinced that the framers would say that Congress was never intended to have the power to enact Obamacare (or Social Security, for that matter). But, arguing for a Jeffersonian “strict interpretation” today is about as absurd as arguing that the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment should not ban ear cropping or branding.


41 posted on 12/22/2009 9:35:24 AM PST by olrtex
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To: kabar

The point is if this bill contains a rules change it would require a two/thirds vote to pass it. They don’t have a two thirds majority.


42 posted on 12/22/2009 9:36:15 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I like Jim, He’s a Conservative guy


43 posted on 12/22/2009 9:36:55 AM PST by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: cornelis

This whole thing is such a disaster.


44 posted on 12/22/2009 9:37:02 AM PST by americanophile (Merry Christmas!)
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To: RC2

But 0bama, as a “Constitutional” lawyer, is rewriting the script. Will anyone challenge these nincompoops? Anyone?


45 posted on 12/22/2009 9:37:47 AM PST by sarasota
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To: wildbill

There is only one recourse to tyrants


46 posted on 12/22/2009 9:38:36 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . black to school but you can't make him thinkLukenbach Texas is barely there)
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To: beebuster2000
“Not clear on how anything can be “unrepealable” that is set by a vote. wont a future vote just undo it?”

A bit confusing...but if 67 votes are necessary and this stands up as constitutional (What say you Mr. Kennedy?) Then when will the Repubs have 67 votes? The word never comes to mind. To many entitlement $hores along with their supporters in the Schools brain washing every generation.

47 posted on 12/22/2009 9:39:30 AM PST by DAC21
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To: olrtex
I suspect it hurts us to take absurd positions like this

The Constitution is never absurd. To suggest it is absurd only illustrates how far we have strayed from the Constitution.
48 posted on 12/22/2009 9:39:42 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! www.FairTaxNation.com)
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To: cornelis

How can a Senate rule be included in legislation? Does a President then ahave veto power over the rule? Does the House get to re-negotiate the rule in Congress? Can the House refuse to accept the rule?

What a friggin’ mess these Democrats are.

What’s good for the GOP is that the independent middle is particularly sensitive to procedural chicanery and hate it. The Dems’ steadfast opposition to transparency is going to be worth a pocketful of Congressional seats all by itself, even without the massive debt and other issues.


49 posted on 12/22/2009 9:43:06 AM PST by cookcounty (Let us not speak of the honor of men. Rather, let us bind them with the Constitution. --Jefferson)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Democrats would trample their own mothers, spouses and children to get what they want.


50 posted on 12/22/2009 9:43:42 AM PST by b4its2late (Before you can control a horse, you have to break it. Sound familiar?)
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