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Watch lists, guns and government
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | June 29, 2009 | Bob Barr

Posted on 06/29/2009 12:49:38 PM PDT by neverdem

The secret government “Terrorist Watch List,” reportedly already swelled to more than 1.1 million names, will have an addendum, if gun control advocates in Congress have their way. This new addendum — also to be cloaked in secrecy — would empower the U.S. Attorney General to deny a person the ability to exercise their Second Amendment rights to purchase a firearm.

While it is not surprising that some members of Congress are again using fear of terrorism to implement a gun-control agenda, the openly unconstitutional legislative language proponents are employing is troubling.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) is leading the effort in the Senate, while another well-known gun control advocate — Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) — is directing the House initiative. They have introduced identical bills — the “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009.” This proposal would give the attorney general the power to unilaterally and in secret develop a watch list of persons believed to be unworthy of possessing a firearm or any explosive.

This new “dangerous terrorist” watch list would include names based not on hard evidence of criminal activity, but on nothing more than the subjective conclusion by the attorney general that a person is “appropriately suspected” (whatever that means) of engaging in some manner of assisting or preparing for acts of domestic or international terrorism. The American people would never be privy to what criteria might be employed by the attorney general to determine whether someone is an “appropriate suspect,” and they would have no way of knowing why they might be denied the ability to purchase a firearm.

If a person were to be refused “permission” to purchase a firearm or explosive, and if they subsequently filed a lawsuit in federal court to find out why, the government still could keep such information secret. In other words, the attorney general could deny a U.S. citizen the ability to own a firearm, and never have to give the reason.

For legislators like Lautenberg and King, who apparently have absolute faith in unelected government officials to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right times (and never be required to explain those decisions), one has only to consider the checkered history of post-9/11 “terrorist” watch lists to see the folly of such perspective. Stories abound of persons denied the ability to board a commercial aircraft, or greatly delayed in being allowed on board, for no reason other than their name erroneously appeared on some “watch list.” Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), and Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), have been among this not-so-elite group.

A report earlier this year by the FBI’s inspector general chronicled extensive internal problems with the terrorist watch list maintained by that agency. The IG found numerous examples of inaccuracies, incomplete entries, out-of-date information and inclusion of information “unrelated to terrorism.” While the inconvenience of not being able to board an airliner for a business trip or a vacation can be a real headache, being refused the ability to purchase a firearm to protect one’s life clearly raises the stakes.

The government already has remedies already at its disposal to keep firearms out of the hands of known or suspected terrorists. Under existing federal law, there are numerous categories of persons prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms; including persons in violation of immigration laws, convicted felons, illicit drug users and others. And if a person truly is a known or suspected terrorist, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — as the federal law enforcement agency primarily responsible for enforcing the nation’s gun laws — certainly should be made aware of that information. We don’t need a secret, anti-Second Amendment watch list to implement effective law enforcement in America


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; agenda; armedcitizen; banglist; bho44; bhobanglist; bhodhs; bhofascism; bhotyranny; bobbarr; ccw; communism; congress; cwii; cwiiping; democratcongress; democrats; democratscongress; donttreadonme; fascism; fubo; fueh; holder; king; lautenberg; lping; marxism; peterking; rapeofliberty; revwar2; rkba; shallnotbeinfringed; tyranny; watchlist
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Lautenberg is no surprise, but King wants to become governor. He's an idiot!
1 posted on 06/29/2009 12:49:41 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Looks like more and more “Henry Bowman’s” are going to be popping up.


2 posted on 06/29/2009 12:50:53 PM PDT by DCBryan1 ( Arm Pilots&Teachers. Build the Wall. Export Illegals. Profile Muslims. Execute child molesters RFN!)
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To: neverdem

The names of these laws are getting sillier.

‘Dangerous Terrorists’ - to quote Jack Nicholson, is there another kind?


3 posted on 06/29/2009 12:56:45 PM PDT by relictele
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To: bamahead

.


4 posted on 06/29/2009 12:58:55 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: neverdem

“some members of Congress are again using fear of terrorism to implement a gun-control agenda”

Not surprising. Look at what they’ve accomplished by flogging fear of global warming, which is a lot less real than terrorism. Liberals don’t believe in women’s rights, environmentalism, gay rights or any other device they can use to accumulate concentrated power in the government; they’re all just a means to an end.


5 posted on 06/29/2009 1:02:34 PM PDT by Spok (Proud father of a Marine in the 1/1.)
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To: neverdem
Am I on it yet?
I keep trying and maybe some day I will make the list.
Every good citizen should be on this list. We want to assure that the government "fears" (respects) it's citizens.
6 posted on 06/29/2009 1:04:33 PM PDT by jongaltsr (Hope to See ya in Galt's Gulch.)
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To: neverdem
For legislators like Lautenberg and King, who apparently have absolute faith in unelected government officials to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right times (and never be required to explain those decisions)...

These men do NOT have "absolute faith in unelected officials to make the right decisions...". They WANT unlected officials, chosen by them and their cronies to HAVE unlimited power to do THEIR bidding. It has NOTHING to do with "right decisions for the right reasons at the right times" and EVERYTHING to do with bringing about a totalitarian form of government in this country (run by people who think like they do).

Lautenberg has been hard at work on it for DECADES.

7 posted on 06/29/2009 1:11:25 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: neverdem

“If a person were to be refused “permission” to purchase a firearm or explosive...”

That’s how the Left sees it... the 2nd Amendment is only so enforceable as far as they give “permission.”


8 posted on 06/29/2009 1:11:33 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Impeach President Soros!!!)
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To: neverdem

So, couple Janet Nappy’s list of “domestic extremists,” and you’ve got your ready-made enemies list. In addition to this, watch for a “Gun-Control Czar” position coming to an administration near you.


9 posted on 06/29/2009 1:14:14 PM PDT by ScottinVA (Impeach President Soros!!!)
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To: jongaltsr

The only problem is, once you are on it, it is a federal crime for a gun dealer to sell you a gun.


10 posted on 06/29/2009 1:15:43 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: ScottinVA

You mean a “Firearms Safety Czar”, right?

;^)


11 posted on 06/29/2009 1:17:11 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: KoRn; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Alexander Rubin; ...



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!
(View past Libertarian pings here)
12 posted on 06/29/2009 1:22:48 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: neverdem

I wonder if they will be able to sieze the firearms you already own?


13 posted on 06/29/2009 1:23:40 PM PDT by east1234 (It's the borders stupid! My new enviromentalist inspired tagline: cut, kill, dig and drill)
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; Jack Black; bamahead

Bang!


14 posted on 06/29/2009 1:24:40 PM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
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To: WayneS

...and they’ll use existing lists to relieve you of anything you have - NFA owners in particular.


15 posted on 06/29/2009 1:27:41 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: Coleus; jocon307; Alberta's Child; Pharmboy; Calpernia; Malsua; dead; nj26; OldFriend; Clemenza; ...
BANG!
16 posted on 06/29/2009 1:28:56 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: WayneS
They WANT unlected officials, chosen by them and their cronies to HAVE unlimited power to do THEIR bidding.

The mafia dons used a similar method to avoid prosecution for conspiracy to commit murder.

Our govenrment: Soon to be the mafia writ large.

17 posted on 06/29/2009 1:35:16 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: jongaltsr

I agree. I sincerely hope I am on the Kenyan Muslim Marxist’s watch list. Every patriot should consider it a badge of honor to be on Hussein’s enemies list.


18 posted on 06/29/2009 1:46:41 PM PDT by Astronaut
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To: neverdem
would empower the U.S. Attorney General to deny a person the ability to exercise their Second Amendment rights to purchase a firearm.
___________
Good, that will trigger the end of this tyranny. Let's just get it over with. People know once the touch the 2nd amendment they have nothing left to lose except their freedom.
19 posted on 06/29/2009 1:46:50 PM PDT by mojitojoe (All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.)
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To: neverdem
Welcome to FR....home of the baseline universe that will be used for the new secret, gun-grabbing watch-list.
20 posted on 06/29/2009 2:10:50 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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