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Serbia: South Ossetia conflict, result of Kosovo's seccession, analysts claim
AKI ^

Posted on 08/11/2008 11:11:31 AM PDT by kronos77

Belgrade, 11 August (AKI) – The deadly conflict between Russia and Georgia in the breakaway province of South Ossetia is an indirect result of Kosovo's declaration of independence in February, Serbian analysts and politicians said on Monday.

“If there wasn’t a ‘Kosovo precedent’, as the greatest world powers headed by the United States called the secession of a part of Serbian territory, there wouldn’t have been a war in South Ossetia,” Oliver Ivanovic, Serbian government official in charge of Kosovo told the Belgrade daily Blic.

Ivanovic said that Kosovo's example was “inspiring to South Ossetia, so they wanted to strain relations and to define their position.”

Georgia wanted to solve the problem of separatist South Ossetia by the use of force, just like Serbia had tried to do in Kosovo in 1999, he explained. .. Commentator Dragan Petrovic told Tanjug news agency that the United States had encouraged a conflict between Russia and Georgia to strengthen its influence in the region.

“The Americans want to drive a wedge between Georgia and Russia to improve their position in the area because of an oil pipeline, future actions against Iran, to isolate pro-Russian Armenia and to encourage the aspirations of the Muslim population in the North Caucasus,” Petrovic said.

Former Serbian foreign minister Goran Svilanovic said he now saw Georgia as a “Russian sphere of interest”.

He said it will soon “become clear to everyone in Russia, Georgia and the countries in the region”.

(Excerpt) Read more at adnkronos.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: balkans; clintonlegacy; geopolitics; georgia; kosovo; ossetia; serbia; southossetia; wrongplace; wrongside; wrongtime
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1 posted on 08/11/2008 11:16:03 AM PDT by kronos77
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ma bell; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 08/11/2008 11:16:36 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77

What one must remember is that South Ossetia is part of GEORGIA, not RUSSIA. If the Georgians went back in to reestablish its authority over its own territory, it has every right to do so. Russia, on the other hand, has no right to invade a sovereign state’s (Georgia) territory merely because some of its population is what Russia considers Russian. Although, even that isn’t exactly true, as there is North Ossetia, a region within Russia made up of, obviously, the same ethnic minority of peoples who aren’t true Russians either, as are found in South Ossetia. So depends on what your definition of Russian is.

Where the US and EU loses their moral authority, and what is, IMO, holding the Bush Admin and the EU back from doing much about this is the fact that we did the same exact thing in Kosovo, which was part of Serbia and was a breakaway republic, just like South Ossetia. We bombed Serbia, just as Russia is now bombing Georgia, for the same reasons, to support a breakaway territory that by virtue of population growth had become almost all Muslim and ethnically more aligned with Albania next door (just like Russia being next door to South Ossetia). And we were the ones bombing Serbia, who was naturally aligned with Russia because both were Orthodox Christian, and our bombing by the Clinton Admin, along with the backing of the EU, in order to establish an independent Kosovo, annoyed the heck out of Russia. So, bottom line, what goes around, comes around. How can we now slam Russia for supporting South Ossetia and for invading Georgia when we did something very similar when we supported Kosovo and bombed Serbia. It’s called our own policies coming back to bite us in the butt. Thanks Bill Clinton.

Of course one can also say, when will it all stop? How many breakaway territories can any country tolerate? Yugoslavia was totally chopped up. Little countries like Czechoslovakia become even more tiny when split in two. What would the US do if say, Texas, or California decided to break off from the US? Russia, who is all for South Ossetia being its own entity, has been fighting tooth and nail against the breakaway republic of Chechnya for years now, not allowing them the same “freedom” as they seem to want for South Ossetia. Plus, of course, oil politics come into play. I believe Russia, if they thought they could get away with it, would like to reincorporate Georgia back into the Russian Federation as they want to get their meat hooks into the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia that via Turkey then sends oil to the EU, bypassing Russia. Russia wants control over all pipelines sending oil to the EU, as they can then manipulate Europe like puppets on a string by controlling all oil spigots to Europe. Whenever the EU would do anything that displeases Russia, she can hike the price of oil, or slow down production, or shut off oil supplies to the EU.

Ah yes, nothing ever quite seems as it really is, when you dig below the surface. Serbia must be laughing their *ss off today as I’m sure they see this as divine retribution. Politics, ain’t it fun?


3 posted on 08/11/2008 11:21:17 AM PDT by flaglady47
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To: kronos77
Looks like the US effort to “drive a wedge” between Russia and Georgia succeeded beyond expectations
4 posted on 08/11/2008 11:22:53 AM PDT by isrul (Help make every day, "Disrespect a muzzie day.")
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To: kronos77

Russia’s (i.e., Putin’s) crimes don’t need any explanations or apologizes. These types of things remind me of whenever the Soviets did something how people always blamed the West. Putin’s an evil bastard. That’s all.


5 posted on 08/11/2008 11:23:28 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Putin needs to spend the rest of his days 6 feet under.


6 posted on 08/11/2008 11:29:56 AM PDT by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: elhombrelibre

What the US did to Serbia regarding Kosovo holds the same moral equivalent. If everyone is so hell bent on holding the Russians to some moral standard, then why isn’t the US obligated to hold itself to that same standard and admit it?


7 posted on 08/11/2008 11:31:18 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython
Well, that's usually a Liberal trick to use “moral equivalence” to excuse the work of tyrants.
8 posted on 08/11/2008 11:35:06 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: montyspython

>>why isn’t the US obligated to hold itself to that same standard

Primarily because the interests of countries are not consistent.

For consistency, best to sample a loaf of bread.


9 posted on 08/11/2008 11:37:04 AM PDT by swarthyguy (Osama Freedom Day: 2500 or so since September 11 2001! That's SIX +years, Dubya.)
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To: kronos77
Serbia: South Ossetia conflict, result of Kosovo's seccession, analysts claim

The chickens from the bent one and Frau Albright's splendid little war have come home to roost. Anyone who had a brain saw this coming nine years ago.

10 posted on 08/11/2008 11:38:45 AM PDT by E. Cartman (Would you want your surgeon graduating at the bottom 1% of his class?)
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To: elhombrelibre
Just stating the facts, you can't go around calling a kettle black then pretend not to be a pot. Conservative support sovereign integrity, so why did Bush support violating Serbia's sovereign integrity?

Liberals are the first ones to claim such stupidity.

11 posted on 08/11/2008 11:39:49 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: flaglady47

How did Georgia come to obtain South Ossetia? Was South Ossetia its ow State at some point in recent history?


12 posted on 08/11/2008 11:40:24 AM PDT by CodeToad
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To: CodeToad

Stalin, that infamous Georgian, who hated Russians, inserted it into Georgia. Who knows why, border hijinks in the old USSR.


13 posted on 08/11/2008 11:46:01 AM PDT by swarthyguy (Osama Freedom Day: 2500 or so since September 11 2001! That's SIX +years, Dubya.)
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To: CodeToad; flaglady47
How did Georgia come to obtain South Ossetia? Was South Ossetia its ow State at some point in recent history?

Here's some background on the South Ossetia, Georgia and Russian conflict.

The "South" Ossetes originally crossed the mountains to escape the Mongol hordes in the 1200s.

14 posted on 08/11/2008 11:49:27 AM PDT by F-117A (Mr. Bush, Condi, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: E. Cartman

Well, brains are not a requirement to work for the State Department.


15 posted on 08/11/2008 11:49:31 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython
You have no problem with the disproportionately and the violence of Putin? I won't talk to you. Your ideas and attempts to justify mass murder shame you.
16 posted on 08/11/2008 11:50:28 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre; All

We had no business recogonizing Kosovo independence which was a bi-partisan doing led by the Clinton administration. Following that logic Alta California, Disricto Mexico! If we become weak enough...Jayson Lewis subbing for Rush reports that the Ruskys moved in Ossetia now are moving on Tiblisi. Course he could be wrong in an earlier conversation with a responding caller he did not challange the callers assertion that China gets Alaskan oil..By law they can’t its all going here to US...


17 posted on 08/11/2008 11:52:53 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (Confront your favorite dem and ask em ..Hows the air in your tires ?)
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To: kronos77
Serbian analysts and politicians said on Monday.

Did anyone think Serbian analysts and politicians would say otherwise?

18 posted on 08/11/2008 11:53:14 AM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: CodeToad

Another prominent Gerorgian, Iosef Stallin gave South Osetia to Georgia.


19 posted on 08/11/2008 11:54:56 AM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Quit making assumptions and you won’t appear to be so ignorant. I never made a such a statement, I’m just showing how idiocy on the US foreign policy front helped set the stage for this situation and that the US needs to start owning up to its own stupid actions.


20 posted on 08/11/2008 11:57:15 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: montyspython
I've been to Kosovo. What we've done there is in no way comparable to what Russia is doing to Georgia. You are the ignorant one supporting by your remarks Putin's right to bully his neighbors by comparing to the US’s recognizing Kosovo is absurd.
21 posted on 08/11/2008 12:01:51 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: F-117A

It seems that Russia has North Ossetia and Georgia as South Ossetia. Russia is willing to cooperate with the North and South getting together to form their own country but Georgia is not cooperating. Regardless of history, it seems the Georgians are in the wrong here. They should cooperate with North Ossetia and South Ossetia forming their own country. Am I wrong?


22 posted on 08/11/2008 12:02:15 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: elhombrelibre

So you support the US stealing sovereign land and allowing the locals to burn churches to the ground. Thanks for the clarification.


23 posted on 08/11/2008 12:06:21 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: CodeToad
How did Georgia come to obtain South Ossetia? Was South Ossetia its ow State at some point in recent history?

Historically, the land has been part of Georgia for centuries. The Ossetic people migrated into Georgia from their homeland to escape the Mongols. A lot of people are claiming that this is an artifact of Stalin's regime and that the land is not historically Georgian. They are mistaken.

24 posted on 08/11/2008 12:08:38 PM PDT by Technogeeb
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To: flaglady47
The population of Kosovo is 2.1 million. The population of South Ossetia is maybe 50,000 Ossetians and 30,000 Georgians.

South Ossetia isn't a breakaway republic. It is a couple of towns.

Serbia must be laughing their *ss off today as I’m sure they see this as divine retribution.

While I am sure Serbian ultranationalists are indeed getting their jollies from watching their Russian husbands murder Georgians, I'm not sure why the Georgians deserve it - even by the twisted logic the Serbian Radical Party specializes in.

25 posted on 08/11/2008 12:09:59 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: kronos77

There is a difference between what the US did in Kosovo and what Putin is doing in Georgia.

Putin, at least, has the excuse that he is invading a foreign country and killing innocent civilians for selfish reasons—because he wants to expand Russia’s control over its former empire and control the oil, which in turn gives him control over Europe, which he can now threaten to let freeze in the dark.

Clinton had no such excuse. He attacked our allies, killed our friends, and handed Kosovo over to our enemies, drug smuggling Muslim terrorists. And, for whatever reason, Bush has signed on to it.

Both these invasions were criminal enterprises, but at least Putin has the excuse that he leads the Russian Mafia and expects to make a big profit on the deal.

What’s Bush’s excuse? Backing the theft of Kosovo from Serbia not only was evil, it was stupid, and flatly against our national security interests.


26 posted on 08/11/2008 12:13:09 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: montyspython
You believe the US stole land in Serbia? You're really out there. Are you happy with Putin as he helps Iran become a nuclear armed power? How about his selling arms to Iran, Syria, and Venezuela? When Putin demolished Chechnya for being a break away Republic, was that different than Georgia trying to keep Ossetia in its country?
27 posted on 08/11/2008 12:16:13 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: CodeToad
Russia is willing to cooperate with the North and South getting together to form their own country but Georgia is not cooperating.

LOL!

Their "own country"?

More than 90% of the Ossetians live in North Ossetia - which is part of Russia and is not an independent state.

If Russia really wanted to see an independent Ossetian state, they could let the Ossetians in Russia declare their independence. But, oddly, they don't.

450,000 Ossetians in Russia are apparently not enough to form a state, but the addition of 45,000 Ossetians in Georgia will magically make them large enough to form a self-sustaining state?

Please.

Russia calling for Georgia to allow an independent Ossetian state is like Spain calling on France to allow an independent Basque republic.

28 posted on 08/11/2008 12:17:12 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

The population of Kosovo is 2.1 million. The population of South Ossetia is maybe 50,000 Ossetians and 30,000 Georgians.
South Ossetia isn’t a breakaway republic. It is a couple of towns.

It was already treated as an autonomous region within Georgia. It wants to break away, a couple of towns or not. Which leads to the point I made on another thread. How many breakaways can any given country allow? And I used as an example, Czechoslovakia, which was tiny to begin with and then split in two to create two mini countries. So, you can call it what you want to, it is still a breakaway republic, or is attempting to be one. Funny though how Russia supports this, but won’t allow Chechnya to break away. Just a tad hypocritical.


29 posted on 08/11/2008 12:17:47 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: kronos77

This is my take on it as well.

If the West is going to surround Russia with Muslim terrorist nations, the Russians are going to have to fix things themselves.


30 posted on 08/11/2008 12:21:46 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: flaglady47

Georgia cancelled its aouthonomy after Georgia independance.


31 posted on 08/11/2008 12:25:15 PM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77
“Former Serbian foreign minister Goran Svilanovic said he now saw Georgia as a “Russian sphere of interest”.

So does he also see Serbia as a US sphere of interest? That would be the natural assumption if the analogous nature of the two are correct as per this article.

32 posted on 08/11/2008 12:28:08 PM PDT by monday
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To: elhombrelibre
“Well, that's usually a Liberal trick to use “moral equivalence” to excuse the work of tyrants. “

Only one problem with your argument. In the case of Kosovo it was Clinton who was the tyrant. If Putin is a tyrant towards Georgia now, Clinton was certainly a tyrant towards Serbia then. Just because a given politician leads the US doesn't mean they can’t be a tyrant. It doesn't automatically excuse every tyrannical action they do.

33 posted on 08/11/2008 12:36:07 PM PDT by monday
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To: swarthyguy

“Stalin, that infamous Georgian, who hated Russians, inserted it into Georgia. Who knows why, border hijinks in the old USSR.”

He was born in South Osetia .


34 posted on 08/11/2008 12:40:00 PM PDT by monday
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To: flaglady47
How many breakaways can any given country allow? And I used as an example, Czechoslovakia, which was tiny to begin with and then split in two to create two mini countries.

The Czech Republic is as big as Portugal - a territory the size of South Carolina and a population as large as Ohio's.

Slovakia is as big as Switzerland and has a population larger than Ireland or Finland or Norway - a territory almost the size of West Virginia and a population as large as Wisconsin's. Smaller Kosovo - which is still much larger than either Slovenia or Montenegro - is the size of Massachusetts with a population larger than New Mexico.

The area controlled by "The Republic Of South Ossetia" with Russia's help is smaller than the New Jersey county I live in. Its population is half the size of the population of the suburban township I live in.

At a certain level it becomes farcical - and "The Republic Of South Ossetia" is way below that threshhold.

35 posted on 08/11/2008 12:41:22 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

“450,000 Ossetians in Russia are apparently not enough to form a state, but the addition of 45,000 Ossetians in Georgia will magically make them large enough to form a self-sustaining state?”

That is an excellent point.


36 posted on 08/11/2008 12:45:18 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: elhombrelibre
“I've been to Kosovo.”

If you have been to Kosovo and still agree that what Clinton and his NATO allies did to Serbia was right then you must be either an Albanian or a socialist because those are the only two groups who can twist logic so severely as to justify that.

37 posted on 08/11/2008 12:46:25 PM PDT by monday
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To: flaglady47
"Where the US and EU loses their moral authority, and what is, IMO, holding the Bush Admin and the EU back from doing much about this is the fact that we did the same exact thing in Kosovo..............

You nailed it right there...the world continues to reap from a continuation of the flawed policies of Clinton............case closed.....no need to go any further.....you wrote a great commentary.

38 posted on 08/11/2008 12:49:28 PM PDT by gitmogrunt (Dancing with the Serbs)
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To: monday

Too much. I didn’t know that. No wonder as a Georgian in Ossetia he may have harbored some really nasty feelings towards Russians.


39 posted on 08/11/2008 12:49:49 PM PDT by swarthyguy (Osama Freedom Day: 2500 or so since September 11 2001! That's SIX +years, Dubya.)
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To: elhombrelibre
Nope not happy with Putin at all, just saying the US helped perpetuate this and the US is not willing to admit their mistakes.

And yes, they did steal Serbian land and handed it over to criminals who harvested organs, burnt down churches and systematically murdered people. Thank you for supporting such activities.

40 posted on 08/11/2008 12:52:23 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: elhombrelibre
"You believe the US stole land in Serbia? You're really out there. Are you happy with Putin as he helps Iran become a nuclear armed power?"

Of course we did. We stole it and gave it to Muslim terrorists and criminals. If you believe otherwise, it is you who are "really out of it".

Just because we point out that Clinton behaved like a tyrant doesn't mean we think Putin isn't a tyrant as well. Sadly most politicians behave as tyrants if they get the opportunity. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."
41 posted on 08/11/2008 12:54:43 PM PDT by monday
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To: wideawake

The Basque should have their own republic. They have their own separate language appart from spanish and their cultural ties are totally different from either Spain or France.


42 posted on 08/11/2008 12:58:42 PM PDT by Mashood
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To: Mashood
The Basque should have their own republic.

No they shouldn't. Terrorism should not be rewarded with sovereignty.

They have their own separate language appart from spanish and their cultural ties are totally different from either Spain or France.

As an American I don't buy into the notion that the determinative factors in nationhood are language or race.

Basque culture is not practically distinguishable from Spanish culture or French culture.

Basques, Spaniards and French all live pretty similar lives in the eyar 2008.

43 posted on 08/11/2008 1:01:55 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: monday

Agree - our support of Kosovo independance was very wrong.

Kosovo became predominantly ethnic Albanian way after WWII because of illegal immigration AND major ethnic cleansing of the Serbs living in the region.

BTW - the Kosovo region has ties to Serb culture/ethnicity back over 1000 years. And as the Serbs were cleansed from the territory, the Kosovars would destroy churchs that were centuries old (including some over 1000 years old) and replace them with mosques.

A parallel in our country would be for illegal immigration to happen in eastern Massachusetts (let’s assume Mexican, for this exercise), and after achieving a majority population (thru murder and terror tactics to displace the original people - then the Mexican group wanted “Independence”. Our claim on that territory (Plymouth Rock and all) - would be less reliable than the Serb claims on Kosovo territory.

BTW2 - Kosovo region is a rich with natural resources.

BTW3 - Kosovo has a region that is still majority Serb, but won’t allow it to break away and join Serbia.


44 posted on 08/11/2008 1:02:16 PM PDT by Vineyard
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To: monday

Gori is his birthplace.


45 posted on 08/11/2008 1:10:53 PM PDT by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: wideawake

The area controlled by “The Republic Of South Ossetia” with Russia’s help is smaller than the New Jersey county I live in. Its population is half the size of the population of the suburban township I live in.

At a certain level it becomes farcical - and “The Republic Of South Ossetia” is way below that threshhold.

What in heavens name is your point? Even if it is the size of a postage stamp it is still trying to break away. It sides with Russia. It appears that small as it is, it is of great interest to both Russia and Georgia, enough to start a war over. So what is your point? Do you have one? You may think it farcical, but it is happening nevertheless. Can you not see the obvious?


46 posted on 08/11/2008 1:31:58 PM PDT by flaglady47 (South Ossetia = Kosovo - thanks Bill Clinton)
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To: flaglady47
So what is your point?

My point is that this is purely a Russian pretext.

The "Republic Of South Ossetia" would not be conceivable except for Russian agitation.

45,000 people in a nation of 4 million would never even think of starting a separatist movement unless it was financed, sponsored and fostered from the outside.

47 posted on 08/11/2008 1:35:00 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

“As an American I don’t buy into the notion that the determinative factors in nationhood are language or race.”

The problem with that statement is that probably 90%+ of the world population does.


48 posted on 08/11/2008 1:40:05 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: wideawake

Yet where would the internet be today without Vanatu!


49 posted on 08/11/2008 3:28:54 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Vineyard
The only appreciable natural resource in Kosovo is grass. It feeds goats. Several years back I discovered that this relatively small chunk of land is so prolific (when it comes to goats) that they provided the majority of young goats to the Middle East, and at a premium price.

The root of the dispute is very recent and undoubtedly has something to do with goats.

50 posted on 08/11/2008 3:33:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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