Posted on 02/18/2008 9:26:24 PM PST by neverdem
Despite recent bad publicity over withheld studies showing marginal results, the resume of America's arsenal of antidepressants is enviable: consort to celebrities, subject of best-selling books and tabloid headlines. They may be the most celebrated pills since Valium.
Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa and Lexapro, among others, have become both household words and medicine-cabinet staples. Known collectively as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs, these antidepressants are prescribed for anxiety, social phobia, obsessive-compulsive disorder and numerous conditions besides depression.
SSRIs are now the most commonly prescribed of all medications in this country. The rate at which physicians prescribed SSRIs more than doubled between 1995 and 2004, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. SSRIs are considered the first line of defense in treating depression, an illness that afflicts more than 20 million Americans.
Given their wide circulation, SSRIs will have a profound impact on the nation's mental health in the decades to come. But whether their impact is for good or ill depends upon whom you ask.
Most antidepressants boost the amounts of messenger chemicals, or neurotransmitters, circulating in the brain. SSRIs were the first to target the key neurotransmitter serotonin, with highly touted...
--snip--
Just last month, a report in The New England Journal of Medicine showed that the makers of drugs such as Prozac and Paxil didn't publish results of trials indicating that their products performed just modestly better than placebos, which have no actual pharmaceutical value.
--snip--
Rosie Meysenburg of Dallas and Sara Bostock of California met at a public hearing on SSRIs sponsored by the Food and Drug Administration. Both had strong reservations about the safety of SSRIs. Together, they created a Web site, SSRIstories.com, which catalogs more than 2,000 news stories detailing violent acts -- murders, suicides, school shootings -- by individuals taking SSRIs...
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
ping to read later
MHO as a retired (yes!) shrink, is that the disorder, depression, itself, is the underlying scourge and not the anti-depressant medications, whether they be SSR or tricyclics or whatever. Depression can be very serious and very debilitating to body and mind. Recovery therefrom is not always smooth sailing no matter whether Rx is used or not.
Earlier I found out that whether or not I see a shrink I had the same probability of success.
Now I'm really depressed.
Because we all know that untreated, these individuals would have not committed such violent acts, or at least would not do so at a rate greater than the bulk population. This is Nobel material folks.
Might as well just prescribe a 6-pack of beer. It’s all just don’t-give-damn medicine, and the beer is cheaper.
>>2,000 news stories detailing violent acts — murders, suicides, school shootings — by individuals taking SSRIs.<<
My guess is that they are likely prescribed to a population more likely to do such things.
We’d also need to compare. How many total articles total?
The Google news archive shows 1.9 million articles with the word “murder” If a quarter of the population takes anti-depressants then 2,000 articles is very low, not high.
This pair’s website is a contribution to junk science. Ask any statistician or scientist and they’ll tell you in your sleep that a ream of documented anecdotes is meaningless - real correlation and cause-and-effect require carefully designed, conducted, controlled and analyzed studies. Without all of that, the results are bunk.
But it will inflame public perception and makes an easy point of entry for a reporter looking for an easy story or a big splash. And once the public is softened up, a crappy study without proper methods will be plastered all over the evening news with absurd Captain Obvious headlines like “Psych Drugs Carry Risks.” By the time the proper criticism and context of the story reaches the media, they’ll be on to their next manufactured crisis.
The calls of reasonable people like yourself saying “mentally ill people being treated are still mentally ill” will be ignored in a rush against Big Pharma, which will by then be accused of putting depressants in Tylenol to create demand for SSRIs.
The New York Times did the same thing with a handful of crimes committed by Iraq War veterans. (I don’t recall if Afghanistan veterans were included in the survey, but since the NYT doesn’t seem hell-bent opposed to the Afghan action I guess that’s data they don’t want to see.)
Right you are. Here is IowaHawk’s brilliant “data extrapolation” on journalists:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/01/notepads-of-sha.html
To this I can (personally) attest. Another way to look at this I suppose is that the current generation of SSRI's are much less annoying than, say, MAOI's. (Which thankfully, I never had the "pleasure" of being prescribed).
Thanks for that link!
Man, thats why I have been depressed since I quit drinking. Thanks. I'll stock up.
Regards
My concern about all these anti-depressant medicines is:
when people are depressed, rather than do the hard work of:
1. figuring out what is bothering them;
2. figuring out whether it SHOULD bother them;
2.5 not allowing themselves to get depressed over things that shouldn’t depress them (I don’t mean to be flippant - I know that’s HARD work)
3. altering what they are able to alter that’s bothering them;
4. accepting the things they can’t alter, and changing their responses to them;
5. facing the wrong behaviors/attitudes they possess which they must change within themselves;
6. seeking help;
7. discipling themselves in appropriate ways;
8. reaching out to others in order to alleviate overly self-centered thinking -
9. making sometimes big, hard changes like moving, changing careers, changing environments, changing diets, changing relationships;
10. developing positive and life affirming hobbies, habits and thought patterns -
most of which is hard, grovely, time consuming effort, two steps forward, one step back, start to do better then get knocked on your keester -
they take pills and try to skip all the hard work.
And you know, I just don’t think that, long term, pills work. MAYBE they work for a short term. and MAYBE, enjoying their effects for a few months makes you even less able to cope with hard core depression the old fashioned way.
Depression can be totally debilitating and should not be treated lightly. I think using prescription meds is a way of treating them lightly. I’m not a medical professional. It’s just my observation. I think you need to fight your way out of depression, and often you need help, but I don’t think the pills are help.
According to Dr. David Healy in "Talking Back to Prozac, the depressed don't commit mayhem.
Making Sense of the Great Suicide Debate Just follow the links please.
But he also saw that his position would be strengthened if he could cite the results of a drug experiment on undepressed, certifiably normal volunteers. If some of them, too, showed grave disturbance after taking Pfizer's Zoloft—and they did in Healy's test, with long-term consequences that have left him remorseful as well as indignant—then depression was definitively ruled out as the culprit.
The doctors get back zero dollars and zero cents.
Right you are...the meds are a tool, not a cure.
I feel the same way about Neal Clark Warren - supposedly eharmony is great, but I can’t stand that guy’s smarmy face. He seems to want to sell people the idea that the problems and challenges go away if you’re with the right person (excuse me...your “soulmate.”) It’s simply not true, unless you’re John Lennon and Yoko Ono, so I think he’s selling people on the idea that it’s not you, it’s them - a dangerous mindset to be in if you’re looking for long-term security with a loved one.
With regards to item # 2. Supposed you witnessed an aircrash into Pearl Harbor that killed 11 of your close friends. Then you ID'd them in the morgue. Then you spent a week burying them. Should that depresses you? And if so, what next?
Regards
Of course there a many violent and suicidal people who need such medication and who would be that way without it.
That said, I've seen too many accounts where SSRI's were given to people carelessly. Add to that I've seen accounts were people who weren't violent or suicidal became that way after they were perscibed SSRI's and after they stopped taking the SSRI's.
beer maybe less harmful than these serious psychotic medications.
The actual website is one of the shoddiest things I've seen. If a person has any history of being on an SSRI and there's a violent act, they go on the list.
There's people who were arrested for violent acts before going on antidepressants who commit subsequent violent acts on antidepressants and they go on the list.
Winona Ryder's shoplifting - on the list.
A girl who was killed by child abuse in a "rebirthing" was on antidepressants. Never mind she was killed by someone not on antidepressants. She's on the list.
A girl who suffered from depression and also was a sleepwalker fell from the 8th story of a hotel. She's on the list.
Another girl is reported by the mother to have died "from a reaction to the antidepressant." No other information is given.
You get the idea.
First of all, I hope that you’re enjoying your retirement.
Well, in reference to the article title, Depression has a very real and well known dark side too.
I currently take 10mg Prozac (Fluoxetine) / day.
It was the only thing that worked to lift me out of a dark pit that gradually decended on me when I was in my early 40’s. I can see why some people with Depression kill themselves. you don’t know what’s happening to you - I thought I had early onset alzheimer’s because I could not think straight and felt like I was in a dark pit all the time.
It took a few weeks to start to work, but over several (about six) months I was back to normal as I was before. Wow - Amazing stuff.
However, I think it is wrongly prescribed or over-prescribed in some cases. Keeping in mind that with SSRI’s the patients can somestimes flip over to Mania, it’s not like taking aspirin for a headache. Which is how I think some people look at anti-depressants.
I take 10mg Fluoxetine because 20 mg a day makes me too jumpy. On the other hand, my sister takes 60 mg a day because less than that is not as effective for her.
A friend of my wife takes Paxil. So after taking to my doctor I gave it a try. On the second day I woke up shaking like a leaf and seeing sparklies all around and things seemed to be jumping off the wall at me, plus a loud rumbling / rushing sound all around. I called the doctor, took an Ativan, took the day off work and slept the rest of the day and went back to my dose of Prozac.
Only thing I can guess is if a brain chemical such as 5HT is pushed by Anti-Depressants in the same way Serotonin is, and if brain chemicals like 5HT are part of what gets affected in the brain during LSD experiences, that might explain my reaction. If so, sure glad I never dropped acid...
Well, I guess everyone’s different. Seems to me most of the problem is not treating SSRI’s as just a Tylenol or Advil for the brain, instead of the powerful drugs that they are.
Usually the patients beg for them. Doesn't excuse the overuse of them, but it does explain it.
I had 5 kids sad walk into the doctors to say they were sad because their brother died.All five plus in laws were presrcibe antidepressants.Only my baby Mary took them,the rest never got the prescription filled.
Every single time I went to my ex dr he tried to give me zoloft. I swear he got a kickback. I finally got a different dr.
Give us back our cigarettes.
Actually no. I think it’s also used to wean people off of really destructive behavior like throwing down 6 packs of beer all the time. That’ll just make you fat and have a bad liver. Prolly have a wife that hates you too. So yeah these things are sort of a non-religious bridge out of bad lifestyle choices. The idea is you eventually don’t need to prescription once you have gotten the other part squared a away. YMMV, naturally. But I wouldn’t just say they are crap and be done with it.
I take Luvox, a SSRI and without it my life is too painful to live.I try not to live in the past but some things are hard to forget. My doc is not a pill pusher, some people have a REAL needs for these drugs.
Antidepressants don’t have any effect on people who are not depressed, and they are certainly not “happy” pills.
Antidepressants do have their place in treating certain kinds of serious depressive disorders. People cannot snap out of it any more than they can snap out of a brain tumor. Still, these drugs are way over- prescribed and I feel they have had a detrimental effect on society. They can dull the protective sense of shame and guilt that is our internal moral compass. These meds contribute to people’s give-a-crap being broken. It also makes it easier to point to the sins of others like the dead white men rather than looking inside at our own.
Well, there goes Dr. Healy again...
People with other MH diagnoses get depressed.
People who are depressed are prone to suffer other mental anomalies, including paranoia, cognitive impairment, memory loss, anger/explosiveness, substance abuse, etc., etc.
People clamor for them because they are bombarded with marketing and advertisements. It’s not good that people insist (over the reasoned advice of their doctors) based on marketing not much different from that used to sell cars or soda pop.
This drug rep agrees.
Yeah, I see that often...and I don't let it persist. I either switch or reduce the Rx and watch carefully. It's common to have different doses for different patients. The key is careful monitoring and, yes, some practitioners fail to do that.
People with other MH diagnoses get depressed.
People who are depressed are prone to suffer other mental anomalies, including paranoia, cognitive impairment, memory loss, anger/explosiveness, substance abuse, etc., etc.
"But he also saw that his position would be strengthened if he could cite the results of a drug experiment on undepressed, certifiably normal volunteers. If some of them, too, showed grave disturbance after taking Pfizer's Zoloft—and they did in Healy's test, with long-term consequences that have left him remorseful as well as indignant—then depression was definitively ruled out as the culprit."
Why did you ignore that? Healy changed his mind about SSRIs.
Many people get depressed from things other than worry or stressful relations. Pneumonia, for example, can cause serious depression with a rapid onset. All the soul-searching in the world won't benefit these cases.
Also, in many instances, the patient's mental abilities deteriorate as a result of the depression and it becomes impossible for them to literally think straight.
But, if the patient is a good candidate for it, outdoor exercise, a good diet and good friends can be as helpful as anything.
“Depression can be totally debilitating and should not be treated lightly. I think using prescription meds is a way of treating them lightly. I’m not a medical professional. It’s just my observation. I think you need to fight your way out of depression, and often you need help, but I don’t think the pills are help.”
The Northern Illinois University killer went OFF his meds a few weeks before his murderous rampage. Methinks he should have stayed on them, as at least while on them he wasn’t busy plotting and carrying out mass murder. I think we have to be very careful here not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many times pills can help, and many medications have allowed us to live a lot longer than one ordinarily would, as most of us know. There is much more trial and error to get the right meds that will work on a given mental patient, however, if those pills allow the mentally ill to at least function in society, then so be it. This killer at Northern IL Univ. went off his meds in order to try to solve his problems on his own. Well, we can see where his decision led him. Think carefully before blaming the pills for whatever happens. I don’t trust this anyhow, as the Libs are always after the big pharmaceuticals, and they will use any leverage they can get to do so.
booked marked
I didn't ignore, I deferred until I could get to that part.
I'll have to read the details---which I will. But please keep in mind when it comes to the results of any scientific study: "One swallow does not make a summer." Replication of his results by different investigators will, if his findings are confirmed, certainly change the course of SSRI research and application.
I'll get back with you after I read the details.
Hell no! I go down the hill and give paper targets and old cans a severe case of lead poisoning...works EVERY time!
I highly recommend it!
Ack - an even worse article than I realized. Thanks.
patch’s advice :
keep your hand out of the medicine jar
Maybe Dr Paul Pots is right.
And yes, the Meysenburg/Bostock site is unmitigated garbage.
Drugs, pfff! Finish your chores, pray, and get some exercise. Like Eddie Lawrence used to say, lift your head up high and take a walk in the sun.
Then if you still feel like crying, maybe you need to have a good cry. Have it, rinse, and then repeat step 1.
I want to mention the dangers of prescribing these types of medications to people who drink alcohol on a regular basis. The effects are devastating. The drugs act as kind of a force multiplier to the alcohol. I wonder how many physicians screen their patients for alcohol abuse before prescribing these medicines.
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