Posted on 01/28/2008 4:10:20 PM PST by lonestar67
Edited on 01/28/2008 6:39:39 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Teachers that can do nothing but teach to the test are probably not very good teachers in the first place.
When opportunities opened up for women and they could be lawyers and doctors instead of just nurses and teachers, then the quality of the average teacher dropped, as many of the bright women who used to go into teaching now are going into many other fields.
I don’t know where you are; but here in California, many of the teachers were failing to teach the basics and were stuck on trying not to hurt any kid’s feelings by telling them that any answer was okay, and any spelling was okay, etc.
I’m not impressed by the whining of the teachers’ union. If the kids only learn what is on the test, they will be miles ahead of where they were before.
ping
“Teachers that can do nothing but teach to the test are probably not very good teachers in the first place.”
You are missing the point completely. These are good teachers who are FORCED to do nothing but teach to the test. They are given so much additional crap that they are MANDATED to teach — for the purposes of the test only — that other valuable programs (which, yes, include core basics like reading, writing, arithmetic and so on) get pushed aside by necessity, because the prime directive is to just PASS THE DAMN TEST at all costs. High test scores = a “good school” rating = more funding for said school. Simple as that. And it’s a joke.
I am also here in California. You ought to talk to my sister, who is a teacher, has her Master’s, and is a conservative. She’d tell you how it really is. The whole “any answer was okay, any spelling was okay” argument against teachers is largely a myth perpetuated by those who have no idea what is really going on in the trenches. I know a lot of elementary school teachers, and NO teacher that I’ve EVER spoken with has advocated “creative spelling” or anything of the sort. Maybe you’ve seen some, but I haven’t. Ever.
Kids were getting a much better, well-rounded and tailored education before this whole NCLB stuff started. They AREN’T miles ahead. Yeah, so a lot of them are passing a test. So what? Are they remembering what they learned AFTER the test? How many tests did you take in school that you just crammed for and then promptly forgot after the test? Yeah. That’s how this works.
Therefore you end up with inflated results that look pretty good on paper, but are very poor indicators of the quality of education that the students are actually receiving.
Nevermind the fact that I believe that the federal government shouldn’t even be in this anyway, so that’s another point of contention for me. It is further erosion of state and local control, and it goes against the 10th Amendment. NCLB is supposedly optional for states — they don’t have to go along with it — but of course they all do because the penalty for not going along with it is no federal funding, and schools need all the money they can get.
I’ll say it again: It’s a joke and it needs to be abolished. While it may have good intentions, it’s not the right solution.
He didn't listen to me. The L3 and L5 disks in my back are F-D because an illegal alien ran a red light. I WANT compensation for the rest of my life for what illegal aliens did to ME.
What’s plain retarded is that he has out spent all other Presidents.
What’s retarded is that he wants to cut the budget by 18billion and then give 30billion to Africa for AIDS in which most will go to the drug companies.
What’s retarded is that we are still spending billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan after we’ve won.
What’s retarded is Bush has allowed the value of the dollar to drop by almost 30% while in office.
Want me to go on? He may be a good man morally butt lets face it, Bush is a poor leader.
Bush attended school in the NE, maybe you should check your facts.
I do not hate, I just think he’s a poor leader and his legacy will proceed him.
I must say...at least he wasn’t gettin nasty in the oval office.
15 years of Clinton and Bush......glad it’s over.
Now we will have to deal with your next moderate choice....thanx a bunch.
Thank you, Cajungirl. Whatever my differences with OUR president, I am grateful that he’s been our CinC for the last seven years.
mrsmel -
I’m in the middle of reading David Frum’s book “The Right Man.” It’s terrific - have you read it? He includes criticism as well, but the way he reflects his time on the White House staff is wonderful.
I haven’t, but thanks for the tip, I will:)
And how is it called “cramming” if they are going over the material all the time, every single week of the school year, without a second for all those other wonderful uplifting other subjects?
Yeah, I “crammed” the multiplication tables and the words on the spelling list for the week, etc. I can still multiply and I can still spell those words. The test is about the foundation — reading and math. You can’t learn much or do much in the world without those skills.
“You’d be better off keeping silent”
No thanks, I enjoy challenging the inane tales of BDSers. Tell me again how your pal gets vandalized daily and you do nothing to stop it but go onto the internet and blame it on Bush. That’s some funny stuff.
Sorry, but neither you or anyone else is going to convince me that NCLB is not a BAD idea. I know too much about it and I’ve seen too much. And every single teacher I’ve talked to, and I am friends with a dozen and know 3-4 more, most of them Republicans, say it’s a joke.
One of the main points here is that it is perfectly possible to teach the core subjects without being bound to a particular, rigid set of curricula and a particular, rigid set of federal-mandated tests. No one is arguing that these skills aren’t important. But a fed-controlled NCLB program isn’t the way.
Oh good grief. So now my wife is a socialist?
Your (koff koff) "logic" is of the type that asserts, "I will NOT eat hamburgers. I just found out that child molesters enjoy them! That's ALL I need to know on the topic. My mind is made up!"
*groan*
No. At least, not "testing" per se.
I don’t understand how we can know if students are getting educated without being tested and reaching accepted standards.
Well, I guess that depends on who it is that defines the "standards", now doesn't it? (Sort of like "who counts the votes.")
I’m curious ... how much influence does the teacher’s union propaganda have?
NONE, as far as I can tell. Out here, the one thing they SHOULD be doing (i.e., their JOB -- representing the teachers, to negotiate an equitable contract for them) is the last thing on their mind.
The ONLY thing they seem to give a damn about is pimpin' themselves out to keep re-electing Gub'nor Jenni, the World's Worst Governor (Canada's payback for the War of 1812).
You'd think that after she stabbed the schools, the students, the taxpayers, and the teachers in the back after the first time they got her elected, they'd have learned their lesson. But, nope. Second time around, the morons went right to the mat for her again.
So, she is now finishing what she began in her first term in office -- the systematic destruction of the economy of the State of Michigan, with a particular focus on education, which she is attacking with incredible gusto.
The moron unions STILL back the so-and-so to the hilt.
Truly incredible.
The ones who despise "NCLB" are the teachers -- the ones in the trenches, who realize that it is PURE unmitigated socialist claptrap. It focusses on the "bottom" -- with a goal of having as many as possible of that category "pass the test" -- and it ignores the normal and gifted students, who are really given short shrift.
Why?
Because thanks to NCLB, the ONLY thing that matters is that the "problem students" pass the tests. And, given the realities, the only way to accomplish that goal is to "calibrate the tests" TO the "challenged" category of student.
Think of it as "outcome-based testing."
It's like "productivity" in the old Soviet Union. There were "quotas" that HAD to be met. So, they were. OK, the result was that incredible amounts of defective products were shipped (try collecting FED and Zorki cameras, or talking with those who do, for an idea of how that worked).
But, the quotas were met -- and that was ALL that the bureaucrats wanted. It made THEM look good. "On paper."
Just like "NCLB."
If your ONLY information on this abomination comes from those who are promulgating it (i.e., Teddie Kennedie and Kompani) then you really need to rethink your information gathering regime.
To recap:
Pre-NCLB, "problem students" couldn't read, write, add, or subtract -- and they failed the tests. This made the bureaucrats and politicians look bad.
Post-NCLB, "problem students" can't read, write, add, or subtract -- and they pass the tests. This makes the bureaucrats and politicians look good.
And we call this "progress"...
We just disagree. I think the kids, especially minority kids, do better with the test at acquiring the basic skills for economic survival in our country.
I also think that teachers are a clique, mostly made up of women who are uncomfortable being out of sync with their colleagues; and I have seen Christian women go along with their anti-religion, pro-liberal colleagues due to the pressures of wanting to get along.
So, I figure you as a newbie, and I as a FReeper, should just go our separate ways.
“So, I figure you as a newbie, and I as a FReeper, should just go our separate ways.”
Now THAT was completely uncalled for. I’ve been around here for a long time, sister. Don’t always post and didn’t always use this handle, but I’ve been perusing this forum for years. (I was RepublitarianRoger immediately prior to this — had to change it when my original email address became defunct and I forgot my password one day, and found no way to have it sent to me.)
And what the hell makes you think I am a “newbie” on the issue that we are debating, huh???
Your second paragraph just very, very clearly illustrates how completely out of touch you are, and that you really have no idea what is going on in the real teaching profession. For this is NOT the way things are at all, not even close. Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin on that paragraph. You really need to get a clue. This is a gross, false blanket statement and is not the way things are at all.
So, yeah, go your own separate way. Please. If you are going to insult me as a “newbie,” then just get lost.
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