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A Brief History of Mormons and Politics - From Joseph Smith to Mitt Romney
LDS Living Magazine ^ | 07/02/07 | Matthew J. Kennedy

Posted on 07/08/2007 5:15:15 PM PDT by Reaganesque

By the time Abraham Lincoln won the presidential election in 1860, there had already been several attempts on his life. His anti-slavery stance caused the nation to split within days of his victory. Because his life was in danger, he was hidden in the luggage rack of the train that took him into Washington, D.C., and for the first time in our democracy, a duly elected president had to be sneaked into the White House under the cover of darkness. Decades before Lincoln, Joseph Smith’s progressive announcement that he would run for president on an anti-slavery platform was explosive and all but doomed. His plans of turning prisons into learning institutions, or giving felons jobs on public works projects, or annexing Texas and Oregon into the Union, were lost to angry mobs that would take his life four months after his announcement to run. Here is a brief look at the long history of Mormons and politics.

Joseph Smith for President

Under the leadership of Joseph Smith, Nauvoo was growing faster and larger than most cities in America, including neighboring Chicago. When Joseph contemplated a run for the White House, he was up against a litany of new laws designed by the establishment to leave things as they were. Slavery was growing more and more divisive and was barely eased by sneaking black citizens out of southern plantations and hiding them in a northerly network of basements, attics, and barns. The issue of slavery was not ignored by the Prophet; even before his candidacy, he once said regarding slavery, “It makes my blood boil.”

Joseph’s campaign started in Nauvoo in February of 1844, and soon news spread to neighboring states that the Mormon prophet was running for president. He was then serving as lieutenant general of the Nauvoo Legion, which at the time had over three thousand men and was second in size only to the U.S. Army. He was also the mayor of the city.

Nauvoo was already making news around the country and so were the “Mormons.” Newspapers and magazines were publishing stories and drawings of the flourishing city. Nauvoo was the subject of many books written by travelers who happened upon it on their trips down the Mississippi.

Joseph Smith fascinated most readers, even, or particularly, when the news of him was critical. His name was already deemed good or bad among many Americans. Etchings and drawings of him that appeared in print frequently showed him in formal or proper attire and often plump and noble looking. Eastern reporters and dignitaries that came to meet Joseph were surprised that he was the strong, young man who helped carry their luggage from the steamboat. He loved to work and was often in his work clothes. His home, by necessity, was converted into a hotel of sorts, and many times it was full. There were nights when he and Emma would sleep out on the front lawn because every room in the house was occupied.

Joseph’s bid for president included a pamphlet outlining his views on government and policy. He proposed several ideas that were progressive and even dangerous, yet long after Joseph Smith, when Lincoln announced his candidacy in nearby Springfield, Illinois, his anti-slavery ideas were explosive and deadly. Lincoln’s life was threatened from the moment he began his campaign. When Booth eventually killed him, it was the third time someone had shot at him.

Not far from Springfield, and fifteen years before Lincoln, Joseph not only called for an end to slavery, but he actually published a plan on how it could be done by 1850. Joseph wrote:

“I ever feel a double anxiety for the happiness of all men, both in time and in eternity, where the Declaration of Independence which states that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; but at the same time some two or three million of our people are held as slaves for life, because the spirit in them is covered with a darker skin than ours. Government officers, who are nothing more nor less than the servants of the people, ought to be directed to ameliorate the condition of all, black or white, bond or free; for ‘God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth.’

“’We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice … and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity’ meant just what it said without reference to color or condition. Petition, also, ye goodly inhabitants of the slave states, your legislators to abolish slavery by the year 1850, or now, and save the abolitionist from reproach and ruin, infamy and shame. Pray Congress to pay every man a reasonable price for his slaves out of the surplus revenue arising from the sale of public lands, and from the deduction of pay from the members of Congress.”

Joseph Smith’s progressive ideas fell prematurely on the printed pages of history decades before it would begin to embrace such concepts. He declared the debtor’s prisons to be cruel and unjust. He wanted to reduce the number of congressmen to just two per state, and suggested Congress take no more pay than the hard working farmers, “who earn an honest living.”

Whatever role the Prophet Joseph Smith would have played as the president of the United States was ended on June 27, 1844, just four months after his announcement to run.

Governor Brigham Young

In the rotunda of the U.S. Capital Building in Washington, D.C., is a series of statues of past state leaders. Brigham Young’s statue, carved in marble, sits among them on the east side of the room. It stands as a monument to someone who not only settled Utah, but who really colonized much of the west. In addition to Utah, Brigham Young also helped to settle Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, California, Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming.

As the first governor of the Deseret Territory, Brigham Young did much to build a place where people could not only live, but thrive. He went to work on the infrastructure of what was needed to sustain the people. First things first, Brigham proposed a cultural hall and theater. It would be a place where the Saints could get what he thought was essential to the human experience: some laughter and enjoyment. The cultural hall was one of the first buildings to begin construction in the area.

He then went to work sending people to different parts of the West to settle towns. He established over 350 communities. He oversaw the building of canals, railroads, and temples. He founded banks, stores, schools, and several universities. He literally created dozens of other industries so that citizens would have plenty of work and commerce.

Brigham Young saw the need and benefit of educating women. He not only opened the Deseret University (now the University of Utah) to all women, but he also sent groups of women back east to medical schools and hospitals for training. Some of the very first female doctors in America were Mormon women. He amended the territory constitution to allow women and black citizens to vote.

Brigham Young was the first Latter-day Saint governor in American history, and the impact and growth of his ideas still continue to this day. The statue of him in the capitol building, sculpted by his grandson Mahonri, is there because of his role as an early leader, yet his success as a colonizer of the entire western United States is still being acknowledged and studied today.

Sending a Latter-day Saint to the U.S. Senate

In 1903, Reed Smoot was the first Latter-day Saint to become a U.S. senator. His arrival in Washington, D.C., created a stir that would soon build into an actual Senate investigation. At issue was whether or not Senator Smoot’s seat should be contested since he was a member of a church that was associated with plural marriage, though he never practiced plural marriage and the Church had issued its manifesto stopping the practice over decade before. Some insiders felt the investigation was a power play to keep one more Republican senator out, and Smoot was the easy target.

The proceedings went on for four years. The halls of the Senate were filled daily with spectators and reporters. When all was said and done, Senator Smoot took his seat in the Senate and everyone went back to work. He went on to serve in the Senate for a total of thirty years.

Senator Smoot became one of the most respected and powerful senators on Capitol Hill. He became a close friend and confidant to President Warren G. Harding, who, in 1920, offered Smoot a seat on his cabinet as the head of the Treasury. His tireless efforts and unwavering integrity in the Senate earned him and the Latter-day Saints the respect and esteem of many Washington leaders. He has been recognized over the years as one of the great senators in American history.

The records surrounding his proceedings now fill over eleven feet of shelf space, the largest collection of proceedings in the National Archives. When speaking of the struggle Reed Smoot faced, President John F. Kennedy said:

“Fortunately the forces of reason and tolerance enabled him to take his seat. And in the years that followed, Senator Smoot earned the respect and affection of every Senator who had challenged him. He rose to be dean of the Senate and chairman of its powerful Committee on Finance—and no voice was ever heard to say that he had not been devoted solely to the public good as he saw it.”

Ezra Taft Benson

As a young graduate from BYU and a returned missionary who served in Britain, Ezra Taft Benson began his career by going into agriculture, which was the leading industry in America. In 1939, when he was working at the University of Idaho, President Benson moved to Washington, D.C., where he became the executive secretary to the National Council of Farmer Cooperative. The first stake in Washington, D.C., was organized with Ezra Taft Benson as its stake president.

In 1953, Benson was asked by President Eisenhower to be the Secretary of the Agriculture, which was a very powerful position at the time. When he tried to explain that he was a busy apostle in his church and might not be the best candidate for the job, Eisenhower told him that the most spiritual work he could do was to strengthen his country. At the encouragement of President David O. McKay, Elder Benson took his seat in Eisenhower’s cabinet and became the second apostle in Church history to divide his time between the federal government and his work with the Church.

Five Latter-day Saints Have Run for President

Joseph Smith announced that he would seek the office of president of the United States in February 1844. Up until that time, his highest elected office was that of mayor of Nauvoo. Shortly after his announcement, he released a pamphlet about his views on the policies of the federal government. It caused immediate turmoil with his enemies when he not only suggested abolishing slavery within five years, but he laid out a plan on how to do so.

Joseph Smith had unmatched experience in leading a large number of people and building a fast growing city. He was already the commander in chief of the second largest military body in America.

George W. Romney, father of Mitt Romney, announced his candidacy in 1966. He had been president of American Motors Corporation and served as a popular and respected governor of Michigan. For a time, he was the GOP favorite and was expected to take the nomination for his party.

Romney’s lead slipped in the polls and he eventually decided to withdraw from the presidential race when Nelson Rockefeller became a candidate. “There was no way I could get the nomination fighting both Rockefeller and Richard Nixon,” Romney told reporters. He went on to serve both in public and private endeavors.

Morris “Mo” Udall came from an early pioneer family that was among those who settled Mesa, Arizona. He served in Congress for almost two decades when he made a bid for the White House on the Democratic ticket. Some believed Udall had actually won his party’s nomination late into the night of the convention voting. He was declared the winner by several people, but by dawn’s early light, he was behind by 7,500 votes, and thus Jimmy Carter went on to represent the party.

Orrin Hatch, a Utah Senator for more than thirty years, has served with six U.S. Presidents. Although his political ambitions have often led him to seek appointments outside the Senate, such as a seat in the Supreme Court and the Attorney General’s Office, his most public attempt was his bid for president of the United Sates in 2000. He lost the bid to Texas Governor, George W. Bush.

Mitt Romney formally announced his candidacy in February 2007. His impressive victory in the race for Massachusetts governor astonished both Democrats and Republicans, creating a presidential buzz long before his announcement. His record for surmounting difficult tasks has always been impressive; winning a very liberal and mostly Catholic state was no small feat.

Some of Romney’s issues for his presidency include: simplifying the tax system, creating energy independence for America, fixing our competitive edge with Asia, and restoring the America’s educational lead in technology and sciences. Go to mittromney.com for more information.

A Century of Progress

1833: W.W. Phelps printed an explosive article in the Evening and Morning Star titled “Free People of Color.” The article invited black citizens from around the country to join the Church and move to Missouri to “live among” the Saints. Missouri was a slave state, and by law people could beat any free black person with ten lashes when he or she crossed in or out of the state. The article sparked a mob riot that led to the destruction of the press and the expulsion of the Saints from Missouri. In that same year the revelation came: “Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another” (Doctrine and Covenants 101:79). This verse brought further violence to the Saints.

1838: John Corrill became the first Latter-day Saint ever to be elected to any office. He held a seat on the Missouri State Legislature. Few if any knew he was a Mormon.

1839: Joseph Smith traveled to Washington, D.C., and met with President Martin Van Buren at the White House. President Van Buren told Joseph Smith that nothing could be done about the lawlessness of the Missourians. The Prophet left a copy of the Book of Mormon with the president, met with and preached to several congressmen, and sat for interviews with a few national newspapers.

1841: The first missionary to be called to labor in the nation’s capitol, Samuel James, arrived in Washington, D.C.

1844: Joseph Smith’s announced his bid for the White House.

1860: Abraham Lincoln, who met Joseph Smith and signed the Nauvoo charter when he was in the legislature in Illinois, was elected President of the United States on an anti-slavery platform.

1867: The Saints in Utah amended their constitution, removing the “Free, White, Male” requirement in order to vote. This cleared the way for both black citizens and women to vote. The U.S. Constitution would not guarantee these rights for blacks until 1870 and for women until 1920.

1868: In the October general conference, Brigham Young announced he would be sending Utah women to eastern universities to train as physicians. Many of the men in the medical schools were outraged and did anything they could to stop the women.

1872: The first woman to be deputized as a sheriff in the United States was an LDS woman named Ellen B. Ferguson.

1896: Martha Hughes Cannon ran for Utah State Senate on the Democratic ticket, and defeated her own husband who was running for the same seat as a Republican. She became the first woman in American history to serve as a state senator.

1896: Heber Wells became the first elected Governor of Utah, and the first Latter-day Saint to hold the office of Governor of any state (Brigham Young governed a territory).

1953: Ivy Baker Priest, an LDS woman from Coalville, Utah, became the first woman to ever serve as U.S. Treasurer. Her signature appeared on U.S. currency from 1953 to 1961.

1972: Jean Westwood, an LDS woman from Price, Utah, became the first woman in history to serve as chairperson of the National Democratic Committee.

1981: Paula Hawkins, who was LDS, became the first woman elected to the United States Senate to accompany her husband to Washington, D.C. As a result, the long standing “Senate Wives Club” was forced to change its name to the “Senate Spouse Club.”

1982: Bay Buchanan, while serving as the head of the U.S. Treasury Department, decided to take the missionary discussions and converted to the Church.

2006: Harry Reid from Nevada became the first LDS Senate majority leader, and the highest-ranking LDS politician.

The First Mormon in the White House

In the fall of 1839, Joseph Smith and a small group of Latter-day Saints traveled to Washington, D.C., to meet with President Martin Van Buren. In a meeting held at the White House, the Prophet explained his situation and gave detailed accounts of the injustice the Saints had suffered at the hands of both lawless mobs and a renegade state government. President Van Buren gave his famous reply: “Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. If I take up for you, I shall lose the vote of Missouri.”

Abraham Lincoln Reads the Book of Mormon

Abraham Lincoln walked down the cold streets of Washington, D.C., on November 18, 1861, to the Library of Congress and checked out a couple of books. Lincoln’s signature and his government office, “President, U.S.,” appears in the library ledger which notes that he took a copy of the Book of Mormon. Records show that he returned the book on July 29, 1862. He later had two other books delivered to the White House, Gunnison’s Mormons and Hyde’s Mormonism. Lincoln was already familiar with the Latter-day Saint people since he had met Joseph Smith in Illinois and was a signer on the original charter for Nauvoo.

Meet Mitt

Prior to his Mitt Romney’s Olympic service, most people knew more about Governor George Romney than they did his son. Mitt’s work in the private sector can be seen in the companies he helped create like: Staples, Domino’s Pizza, Sealy Mattress, Brookstone, and The Sports Authority. But at last it was his highly visible impact on the sinking 2002 Olympics that showcased what Mitt could do.

In his three years at the helm of the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee, Romney erased a $379 million operating deficit, organized 23,000 volunteers, galvanized both community and national spirit, and oversaw an unprecedented security mobilization just months after the September 11 attacks, leading to one of the most successful Olympics in our country’s history.

Romney surprised both Democrats and Republicans when he won the election for governor in a mostly liberal state, which seemed to always favor someone with the last name Kennedy. At the beginning of Romney’s term as governor of Massachusetts, his state was losing thousands of jobs every month. Then, in Olympic style, he went to work on a series of crushing problems. Without raising taxes or increasing debt, Governor Romney balanced the budget every year of his administration, closing a three-billion-dollar gap he inherited when he took office, transforming all deficits into surpluses. His agenda going forward, which is listed on his website (mittromney.com), details the top ten problems he would fix as president. It ranges from simplifying the tax system to competing with Asia in education and technology to protecting our global strengths.

Mitt Romney and his high school sweetheart-turned-wife have five sons, (Tagg, Matt, Josh, Ben, and Craig). Mitt attended BYU and was valedictorian. He went on to get his JD/MBA from Harvard Law and Harvard Business School.

JFK Speaks at Mormon Tabernacle

Like Mitt Romney, a young presidential candidate, John F. Kennedy, was forced to answer many questions about his religion. Although he tried to focus on policy instead, the press wouldn’t let qualms about his religion go, despite the fact that Article VI of the U.S. Constitution states: “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

In 1960, while speaking from the pulpit in the Mormon Tabernacle on Temple Square, John F. Kennedy said the following in reference to his battle with the subject of his religion: “I am grateful to the presidency of the Latter-day Saint Church, and to its presiding bishopric, for according me the privilege of speaking within the historic walls of this magnificent tabernacle. This is an honor which I shall long remember.

“Tonight I speak for all Americans in expressing our gratitude to the Mormon people—for their pioneer spirit, their devotion to culture and learning, their example of industry and self-reliance. They suffered persecution and exile, at the hands of Americans whose own ancestors, ironically enough, had fled here to escape the curse of intolerance.

“But they never faltered in their devotion to the principle of religious liberty—not for themselves alone, but for all mankind. And in the eleventh Article of Faith, the Prophet Joseph Smith not only declared in ringing tones: ‘We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience’—but he also set forth the belief that all men should be allowed ‘the same privilege. Let them worship how, where, or what they may.’ Then—and only then—can we truly heed the command which Brigham Young heard from the Lord more than a century ago—the command he conveyed to his little band of followers: ‘Go as pioneers, to a land of peace.’”

John F. Kennedy; September 23, 1960; Salt Lake City


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; churchhistory; history; ldschurch; mormons; politics; romney; strangebeliefs; strangecult
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To: restornu
The House of the Lord is a house of Order and Reverence.

Of course my dear - but I would suspect all repentant mormons are orderly and reverent, yet all of the repentant ones do not make to temple due to the authority of a man....why is this ?

Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

are all baptized and repentant Mormons righteous?

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

but Temple permission can ?

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours

are not all Mormons called to be Holy ?

1 Corinthians 1:10 [ Divisions in the Church ] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

My dear resty - Temple permission would be considered a division - we are all the same in Christ Jesus are we not ?

2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Is it with "all" or just Temple attenders?

Those entering the Lord House are those who been honoring the covenants they made with the Lord.

again, dont all repentant Mormons honor the covenants ?

The natural man can not enter for is an enemy of God

exactly - but - are only the Mormons that enter temple friends of God ? - are the remainder that never make it to temple considered enemies of God ?

141 posted on 07/09/2007 2:38:49 PM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: sandude
Taking offense is a personal choice and in many cases speaks more loudly about those who took offense than it does of the person who allegedly did the offending. Consequently, this thread is all about such choices. How do you think the average Lurker feels about what has been said about an article that both you and I described as a brief summary of Mormon political involvement? What do you think the average Lurker thinks about the heated rhetoric that some believe passes for debate here? I put it to you that the average, reasonable person, when they read such posts, is repulsed.

So, there are two main benefits to a thread like this. First, to the interested reader, general information was made available for their review. Second, the opposition volunteered their opinions in their usual manner so, the interested reader has been informed as to who Mitt's opponents are and how they behave. You can learn a lot about a man not only by reading about his past and his beliefs but by the enemies he has as well. So, information was given, intentionally and unintentionally. The reasonable reader may now decide for him or herself as to where the truth lies. That is what this thread accomplishes.

142 posted on 07/09/2007 3:07:41 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: colorcountry; FastCoyote; MHGinTN; Pan_Yans Wife; svcw; Enosh; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
May I add my take on The Great Mormon Money Machine: The Big Payoff, dear FRiend?

Using the power of your “Afterlife Insurance Company”:

You demand a whopping ten percent of each client’s income for their policy premiums and If the money isn't paid, the client can't partake of the ordinances which are the ticket to Heaven...

You publicly humiliate anyone who questions you or fails to pay. This means that if a client publicly questions the "leaders and doctrines" the client is considered apostate and summoned to a "court of Love" wherein said client may be excomunicated and shamed before client's fellow clients. This power is so great that...

You can even ban clients from attending things like family weddings! A client cannot enter the temple where the wedding is held without a special "pass" that is granted to you only if you conform to all the requirements, including full payment of bills and obeying the laws that require you to abstain from coffee, tea, tobacco and liquor and in some cases, caffinated sodas. the absurd irony is...

You don’t have to prove to anyone that your Afterlife Insurance Company actually works, True so...

You are worry free because, in this business, all your disillusioned customers are dead. HOWEVER, there is a caveat that if after death, the client accepts ordinances such as baptism, sealing, and confirmation as a member of the Great Mormon Money Machine, client MAY be allowed to enter the top tier of Heaven with all the other faithful clients. Therefore...

You never pay off a single claim (although you literally promised the Universe). Still waiting for word from the afterlife on whether you pay off the dead! Then, incredibly...

You reverse the Burden of Proof—If others don’t magically know you’re right—they’re wrong! Opponents must PROVE to the satisfaction of other clients and the corporate officers that YOU actually were NOT visited by two Heavenly personages who told you all the other Insurance companies were fraudulent. Now...

You destroy rational thought with the delusion that deeply feeling it’s true is all that matters. Logic is unimportant, study is unimportant, what COUNTS is the "burning in the bosom" and the FEELING that this is the only honest Insurance company. Soon...

You addict clients so forcefully to your fantasy they fear they can’t live without it! and they will gladly give up ties to their mates, sons, daughters, parents, grandparents if these relatives don't accept the TRUTH of the COMPANY. From all this...

You urge mass lying (re: the Emperor’s New Clothes) by saying “All worthy people will know it’s true.” "I don't HAVE to listen to your proofs, I KNOW!"

You now multiply this gullibility with the following arsenal of business weapons —

You exploit your very clients as free labor to run your business for you, even on Sundays. Even requiring your clients to clean the toilets in your buildings free of charge as evidence of their "worthiness" and loyalty.

You command a massive volunteer sales force that must actually pay its own expenses. And, require that other clients provide room and board, free of charge for these "salepersons." (Heard this is new policy)

You endure almost no outside government interference and with limited regulation and...

You have no inner accountability either, such as member or stockholder oversight! the clients BETTER not demand an accounting if they know what's good for them! Better yet...

You run a company that pays no taxes, but instead enjoys tax-subsidized dues. Then for comfort...

You answer only to your inside buddies for your personal pay and perks! The IRS won't be able to touch you! Hahaha! But not stopping there...

You find abundant opportunities for nepotism and cronyism even outside the firm, because...

You freely raise large venture capital funds for unrelated business schemes. And all this time...

You enjoy total administrative, financial and clubhouse secrecy. You are, a "protected corporation". Now, Jaded by your aloof stature...

You callously use emotional, social and spiritual extortion as powerful revenue tactics. Pay up, or no ticket to Heaven! Coldly...

You hold hostage a family’s togetherness in the hereafter, plus their closeness here. And amazingly...

You even intimidate your clients literally down to their underwear. BUT, the underwear will magically PROTECT clients from all kinds of HARM! Then for good measure...

You claim the right to acquire all their worldly possessions too! Now, dear client, you will reap unknown heaps of blessings if you leave your estate to the Machine instead of your family! Your disrespect is so deep that...

You require them to make dour commitments, before even telling them what they’re agreeing to! MILK BEFORE MEAT is for your OWN GOOD! Client can't possible understand all the wonderful secrets until I SAY client can! Yet... You still passionately kindle their hero worship with great theatrical skill, because, as Matthew put it...

"You wear charming sheep’s clothing that makes False Prophets seem so totally respectable." Finally...

You exercise massive social, political and economic clout. Looking to add even MORE political power now. And the proverbial “fruits” abound —

You and your cohorts rule vast empires wielding your colossal power and wealth!

This Great Mormon Money Machine is perfect

(It is) just Lies, Dollars and Sanctimony

False prophets are “like those who administer a deadly drug in sweet wine, which he who is ignorant of does greedily take, with a fatal pleasure leading to his own death.” Ignatius of Antioch

143 posted on 07/09/2007 3:49:42 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("We don't want to open a box of Pandoras." - Bruce King former governor of NM, DEM)
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To: Sherman Logan
Gov. Lilburn Boggs (Dem) issued the extermination order to kill mormon men women and children.

Gov. Ford (Dem) knew about the mob's intention to kill Joseph (Court affadavits compared to his cowardly liberal lies follow below).

Gov. Ford attended the 1844 Democratic National Convention in Baltimore, Maryland May 27 to 29, 1844.

So in your opinion that Joseph Smith was shot a month after the DNC discussed his candidacy for President was totally unrelated? Ford deliberately reduced the gaurd at the jail and made comments that the mob should take care of the problem.

Unfortunately Dem lies and murders didn't start or end with the Clintons.

Nothing to see here move along.

Ford denied being responsible. However, two men later gave affidavits suggesting Ford knew of the plot and could have approved of it. Dan Jones, a riverboat captian and one of the few eyewitnesses to both sides of the event, repeatedly warned Ford throughout the day of comments he heard from the guards and jailkeepers concerning their plot to assassinate the Mormon leaders. In response, Ford replied, "You are unnecessarily alarmed for your friends safety sir. The people are not that cruel." Irritated by the remark, Jones urged the necessity of placing better men than professed assassins to guard them. He stressed that they [the Smiths] were American citizens surrendered to his [Ford's] pledged honour. When Ford showed little interest in Jone's concerns, Jones commented "[I] had then but one request to make; if you [Ford] left their lives in the hands of those men to be sacrificed, that the Almighty will preserve my life to a proper time and place to testify that you have been timely warned of their danger." Later that day, returning to Nauvoo on horseback, Jones passed Ford's company while it passed by a painted mob ready to enter Carthage to kill the Mormon leaders. Jones records that while the assassination was taking place in Carthage, Ford addressed the citizens of Nauvoo saying that a "severe atonement must be made so prepare your minds for the emergency." The officials of the governor were heard urging him to hasten from there assuring him that the deed (that is the assassination) "was sure of having been accomplished by then." Both Ford's statement and the comments of his supporting officials provide strong evidence of Ford's involvement. [1] He was later claimed to have said, "it's all nonsense; you will have to drive the Mormons out yet." This is exactly what happened. Several residents of Hancock County, and many residents from several surrounding counties, met and decided on a plan of action that later forced the Mormon retreat into Utah, led by Brigham Young, by 1846.

Ford defended his meek actions during the crisis, saying hated minorities are never safe from hostile majorities. He said, "Men engaged in unpopular projects expect more protection from the laws than the laws are able to furnish in the face of popular excitement." He believed that a politicized militia and court system, as well as weak powers granted him by state law, prevented him from doing more to stop the Illinois Mormon War.

Spoken like a true DEM

144 posted on 07/09/2007 4:12:30 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: inkling; Reaganesque; Logophile
>>>Several theories disagree.

Like the DEM's who murdered Mormon men, women, children and Joseph Smith.

See post #144 for evidence of DEM invovlement in Joseph's murder.

145 posted on 07/09/2007 4:18:09 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: Mobile Vulgus; restornu

uhh, restornu is a chick.


146 posted on 07/09/2007 4:26:47 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: Cymbaline
>>>Just what FR needs. Another Mormon thread that will turn into a 2000-post fur ball.

LOL

147 posted on 07/09/2007 4:27:47 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: greyfoxx39
FIP Ping???

__________________________

Feline infectious peritonitis - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FIP-infected kidney showing inflammatory responseFeline infectious peritonitis (FIP) is a fatal, incurable disease that affects cats.

148 posted on 07/09/2007 4:31:18 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: no dems
The Tabrnacle is a gathering Hall for Conference speakers and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. (It is not the same the the tabernacle in the OT)

The Temple is a Holy place of worship reserved for memebrs to receive religious ordinances such as sealings to family, baptism for the dead and eternal marraige.

Salt Lake Tabernacle

Salt Lake Temple

149 posted on 07/09/2007 4:37:12 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: imjustme

I don’t know who freelance is but it seems you carry on where he left off!

Must be a mormon thing.

The majority of the LDS don’t act that way!

I am a convert and did my own homework one on one with the Lord and reading everything I could both LDS and Anti LDS.

If you are looking for truth the Lord will show you, if you want to faultfind the opposition will show you!


150 posted on 07/09/2007 4:47:07 PM PDT by restornu
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To: MHGinTN
>>>Since ONLY the Levitical Priesthood was allowed to practice the administration of the Temple,

True in Mosaic OT times under the mosaic law (in the tabernacle and the temple).

However, in the NT under the Higher law we have record of Paul (tribe of Benjamin) and other Non-levites worshipping in the Temple.

Acts 24:17-18 Now after many years I came to bring alms and offerings to my nation, 18 in the midst of which some Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple NKJV

151 posted on 07/09/2007 4:47:25 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: MHGinTN
Since this is the second time you have posted that lengthy cut and paste job could you care to explain to the dear lurker the difference between Canonized LDS Doctrine and Scritpure and what is not? Also the process by which something becomes canonized? Or don't you know?

Hint, most of what you posted isn't Canonized Doctrine

Another hint, the pattern Mormons follow for what is or isn't Doctrine is in the Bible.

152 posted on 07/09/2007 4:51:02 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: sandude
>>>I think the article has some interesting history but it's target audience was not a conservative rumpus room like FR.

Ping to post #144 which discusses DEM invovlvement in Mormon murders. I think it fits exactly what should be discussed on this forum.

153 posted on 07/09/2007 4:53:27 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: restornu
I admit that was immature of me to add that at the end.
The reply he made was so uncalled for and full of name calling towards me. It truly shocked me. I don't know who reported his post but I wish it had stayed up just so everyone could see how bad it was.
Sorry for suggesting all LDS are as this poster is.

154 posted on 07/09/2007 4:58:46 PM PDT by imjustme
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To: Rameumptom
That is stunningly beautiful! By far the best post I’ve ever seen from you. With that positive note I’ll bid you adieu.
155 posted on 07/09/2007 5:05:24 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: MHGinTN

God does not curse anyone with dark skin.

God blesses humanity with different colors of skin, and no skin color is more favorable to Him than another. Race is not the real issue anyway, for we are all one in Christ (Gal. 3:28).

**********

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints never engaged in slavery!

Here is what some other think about Christianity and History Bible, Race & Slavery

Man inhumanity to man

We are now in what many consider “National Bible Week” - a transparent attempt by right-wing theocrats to have their religion and their holy book be granted special recognition by our government. Unfortunately, some incompetent and insensitive politicians have played along with this by giving official proclamations for Bible Week. I think that it is important that everyone make a careful examination of the Bible and how it has been interpreted and used through history. If there are Americans who wish to celebrate the Bible in America, I think it might be good if they were educated as to just what horrors have been based on it.

Of course, any time the Bible is used to justify an action, a particular interpretation must be employed (after all, the Bible contains quite a number of broad, vague, and even contradictory statements). The problem arises when the person refuses to recognize that they are using an interpretation. Few Christian arguments annoy me quite so much as that someone’s interpretation of the Bible is just “common sense” - and that thus anyone with a modicum of “common sense” will immediately see what the Truth is and agree with them. In fact, it is rare that any interpretation of any text is really “common sense.” Either an interpretation can be objectively defended by appeal to text and context, or it cannot. Those who can will do so, and those who cannot will most likely refuse to admit it. One of those issues which will appear to be “common sense” to the average Christian will be the biblical position on slavery.

Unfortunately, one of the most abominable chapters in the history of how the Bible has been used and interpreted involve the questions of race and slavery. Racial relations, especially between whites and blacks, have long been deplorable in the United States. They started out badly, got worse before they got better, and are nevertheless still poor with slim prospects of improving a great deal any time soon. Although Christians will be loathe to admit it, their religion shares a significant part of the blame for this situation.

People on all sides of racial and slavery issues have interpreted the Bible through the filters of their personal and cultural assumptions - but at no point will you find them admitting this. In every case people have seen their interpretations as “common sense” - the only and obvious way Christians should interpret their scriptures. The results will be the focus of this week’s article.

Old Testament

The first, and most obvious, thing to remember is that there is no specific condemnation of slavery to be found anywhere in the Bible. At no point does God express even mild disapproval of enslaving human beings, robbing them of what freedom and independence they might have had. On the contrary, God is depicted of both approving of and regulating slavery, ensuring that the traffic and ownership of fellow human beings proceeds in an acceptable manner. In many cases, the regulations display a horrible disregard for the lives and dignity of enslaved individuals, hardly the sort of thing one would expect from a loving God.

Passages referencing and condoning slavery are common in the Old Testament. In one place, we read:

When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. (Exod. 21:20-21)<
So, the immediate killing of a slave is punishable but a man may so grievously injure a slave that they die a few days later from their wounds without facing any punishment or retribution. All societies in the Middle East at this time were condoned slavery, so it shouldn’t be surprising to find approval for it in this document. As a human law, the above would be commendable - after all, there was nothing quite so advanced anywhere else in the Middle East. But as the will of an all loving god, it’s abominable.

As a side note, it should be observed that the King James Version of the Bible presents the above verse in an altered form, replacing “slave” with “servant” - thus gravely misleading Christians as to the intentions and desires of their God. One more reason to reject fundamentalist claims that the KJV is the only true and valid translation!

New Testament

The New Testament, unfortunately, is little better. Jesus never even comes close to expressing disapproval of the enslaving of other human beings, and many statements attributed to him reveal a tacit acceptance or even approval of that inhuman institution. Throughout the Gospels we read passages like:

A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master (Matt. 10:24)

Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give the other slaves their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master will find at work when he arrives. (Matt. 24:45-46)
Although Jesus is using slavery in order to illustrate larger points, the question still remains why he would directly acknowledge the existence of slavery without saying anything negative about it?

The letters (rightly or wrongly) attributed to Paul are even worse, making it clear that the existence of slavery is not only acceptable, but that slaves themselves should not presume to take the idea of freedom and equality preached by Jesus too far by attempting to escape their forced servitude.

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. (1Tim. 6:1-5)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)

Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)

Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God’s approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)
What are we to make of passages such as those quoted above? We must conclude that the author(s) did not disapprove of the institution of slavery and probably regarded it as an appropriate part of society. Again, slavery was common in all contemporary societies, and it would be surprising to find condemnation here. But if those authors were indeed divinely inspired, as is commonly thought by Christians, then we must conclude that God’s attitude towards slavery is not particularly negative. Christians are certainly not prohibited from owning slaves, and anyone who does not agree is directly condemned. There is, then, no conflict between being a Christian and being an owner of other human beings.

No “common sense” interpretation can deny such things without doing violence to the text itself, and nothing can be criticized as having been “taken out of context.” Christians should perhaps consider admitting that their Bible was written in a primitive, barbaric age and as such represents the primitive, barbaric attitudes of that age.

Early Christian History

How did the early Christians deal with the issue of slavery? There was almost universal approval of slavery among church leaders. Christians vigorously defended slavery (along with other forms of extreme social stratification) as instituted by God and as being an integral part of the natural order of men. At all points, their reasoning was clearly and easily supported by the Bible passages quoted above.

Let’s allow them to tell us in their own words:

The slave should be resigned to his lot, in obeying his master he is obeying God... (Saint John Chrysostom)

...slavery is now penal in character and planned by that law which commands the preservation of the natural order and forbids disturbance. (Saint Augustine)
These attitudes continued throughout European history, even as the institution of slavery evolved and in most cases slaves became “serfs” - little better than actual slaves and living in a deplorable situation which the church declared as being divinely ordered.

Not even after serfdom disappeared and full-fledged slavery once again reared its ugly head was it generally condemned by Christian leaders. Edmund Gibson, Anglican Bishop in London, made it clear in the 18th century that Christianity freed us from the slavery of sin, not from earthly and physical slavery:

The Freedom which Christianity gives, is a Freedom from the Bondage of Sin and Satan, and from the Dominion of Men’s Lusts and Passions and inordinate Desires; but as to their outward Condition, whatever that was before, whether bond or free, their being baptized, and becoming Christians, makes no manner of Change in it.

American Slavery

The first ship bearing slaves for America landed in 1619, beginning over two centuries of human bondage on the American continent, bondage which would eventually be called our “peculiar institution.” This institution always received theological support from various religious leaders, both in the pulpit and in the classroom. For example, through the late 1700s, Reverend William Graham was rector and principle instructor at the Liberty Hall Academy, now Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia. Every year, he lectured the senior graduating class on the value of slavery and used the Bible in his defense of it. For Graham and the many like him, Christianity was not a tool for changing politics or social policy, but instead to bring the message of salvation to everyone, regardless of their status of freedom. In this, they were certainly supported by biblical text.

As Kenneth Stamp wrote in The Peculiar Institution, Christianity actually became a way to add value to slaves in America:

...when southern clergy became ardent defenders of slavery, the master class could look upon organized religion as an ally ...the gospel, instead of becoming a mean of creating trouble and strive, was really the best instrument to preserve peace and good conduct among the negroes.
Through teaching slaves the message of the Bible, they could be encouraged to bear the earthly burden in exchange for heavenly rewards later on - and they could be frightened into believing that disobedience to earthly masters would be perceived by God as disobedience to Him. Ironically, enforced illiteracy prevented slaves from reading the Bible themselves. This is ironic because a similar situation existed in Europe during the Middle Ages, as illiterate peasants and serfs were prevented from reading the Bible in their own language - a situation which was instrumental in the Protestant revolution. Now, Protestants were doing much the same thing African slaves: using the authority of their Bible and the dogma of their religion to repress a group of people without even allowing them to read the basis of authority on their own.

Division and Conflict

As Northerners decried slavery and called for its abolition, southern political and religious leaders found an easy ally for their pro-slavery cause in the Bible and Christian history. In 1856 Reverend Thomas Stringfellow, a Baptist minister from Culpepper County in Virginia, put the pro-slavery Christian message succinctly in his “A Scriptural View of Slavery:”

...Jesus Christ recognized this institution as one that was lawful among men, and regulated its relative duties... I affirm then, first (and no man denies) that Jesus Christ has not abolished slavery by a prohibitory command; and second, I affirm, he has introduced no new moral principle which can work its destruction...
Of course, Christians in the North disagreed - and some denominations, like Quakers, appear to have never been afflicted by slavery. Interestingly, most abolitionist attacks were based on the premise that the nature of Hebrew slavery differed in significant ways from the nature of slavery in the American South. Although this was meant to argue that the American form of slavery did not enjoy Biblical support, it nevertheless tacitly admitted that the institution of slavery did, in principle, have divine sanction and approval so long as conducted in an appropriate manner.

In the end, the North won on the question of slavery. Although the Southern Baptist Convention was formed in an effort to preserve the Christian basis for slavery before the start of the Civil War, they did not feel it necessary to bother apologizing until June 1995. The reason was that even though the question of slavery had been settled, the question of race still burned.

Repression and Superiority

The later repression and discrimination against the freed black slaves received as much biblical and Christian support as the earlier institution of slavery itself. This discrimination and the choice to enslave blacks only was made primarily on the basis of what has become known as the “sin of Ham” or “the curse of Canaan.” Occasionally there would also be defenses of the inferiority of blacks by asserting that they bore the “mark of Cain.”

We read in Genesis, chapter nine, that Noah’s son Ham comes upon him sleeping off a drinking binge and sees his father naked. Instead of covering him, he runs and tells his brothers. Shem and Japheth, the “good” brothers, return and cover their father. In retaliation for Ham’s “sinful act” of seeing his father nude, Noah puts a curse on his grandson (Ham’s son) Canaan: ?Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers” (Gen 9:25).

Over time, this curse came to be interpreted that Ham was literally “burnt,” and that all his descendants had black skin, marking them as slaves with a convenient color-coded label for subservience. When and how this gained widespread acceptance is questionable, but anti-slavery religious and political leaders have worked to refute it for more than a century. Today, biblical scholars note that the ancient Hebrew word “ham” does not have to be translated as “burnt” or “black” - but there is unfortunately little consensus on how the name and passage should be interpreted. Further complicating matters is the position of some Afrocentrists that Ham, although not actually cursed (despite what the Bible says!) was indeed black, as were many other characters in the Bible. Once again, people end up reading the passage as supporting their own racial assumptions.

Although many Christians today would be horrified at using the Bible as a support for racism, they should recognize that it was used in just such a fashion by Christians in America in the same way and with the same justification as Christians today use the Bible in their defense of their favorite ideas. Even as recently as the 1950’s and 60’s, Christians vehemently opposed desegregation or “race-mixing” for religious reasons. The “curse” of poor Ham lingered on in the minds of white Christians who fought to preserve a constant separation of the races.

A corollary to the inferiority of blacks has long been the superiority of white Protestants - something which has not yet dissipated in America. Although “Caucasians” are not to be found anywhere in the Bible, that hasn’t stopped members of Christian Identity groups from using the Bible to prove that they are the true “chosen people” or “true Israelites.” This may seem bizarre, but it has long been popular among American Protestants to see themselves as being “divinely appointed” to tame the American wilderness despite the “demon Indians.” Americans are supposed to be blessed with a special destiny by God, and many read an American role in Armageddon in the book of Revelations. I am ever amazed at the degree to which Christianity encourages extreme egotism and inflated sense of self-importance or personal destiny.

Christian Identity is just a new kid on the block of White Protestant Supremacy - the earliest such group was the infamous Ku Klux Klan. Too few people realize that the KKK was founded as a Christian organization and still sees itself in terms of defending true Christianity. Especially in the earliest days, Klansmen openly recruited in churches (white and segregated, of course), attracting members from all strata of society, including the clergy.

Although Klan ceremonies have varied greatly, one common form will include an American flag, a cross, and a Bible opened to Romans 12, exhorting Christians to “godly conduct, godly nature.” Also common is a sword representing the war against all enemies of the Christian life an the American “Christian Nation.” Opening and closing prayers may often include “The living Christ is a Klansman’s criterion of character.” The origin of a burning cross is unclear - it may stem from the ancient Scottish tradition of burning a cross on a hill to call together the clans, or it may be representative of spreading the light of the True Cross in an effort to promote Christian faith.

Interpretation and Apologetics

The cultural and personal assumptions of the pro-slavery Christians (and pro-slavery biblical authors) quoted above are probably obvious to all of us now, but I doubt that they were obvious to slavery supporters at the time. Similarly, today, I’m sure that few people are aware of the cultural and personal baggage which they bring to their readings. They assume the truth of what they believe, and are determined to find divine sanction for their beliefs in their holy book. I think that these Christians would be better off defending their ideas on their own merits, but I quite honestly doubt they are capable of it. Perhaps they doubt themselves too, and that’s why they don’t try.

My recommendation is against ever accepting any sort of “common sense” defense of any biblical interpretation. Throughout history, the idea that someone’s interpretation is just “common sense” has been used on every side of every issue, including today’s topic of slavery. Defense of an interpretation can only be done via rational, logical argument. Unfortunately for Christians, that has been used effectively on every side of every issue, too - including today’s topic of slavery.

Maybe that means that using the Bible isn’t a valid defense of an idea? Could be...


156 posted on 07/09/2007 5:15:57 PM PDT by restornu
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To: MHGinTN
Under the mosaic law temple worship was highly restricted. In the NT it was open to Priests not of Levirate lineage. For example, Paul was a Benjamite who worshipped in the temple. Many gospel ordinances pre and post date the lesser mosaic law. For example Abraham tithed pre-mosaic law. Melchizedek was a high priest. Gen. 14: 18-20; Ps. 110: 4; Heb. 2: 17-18; Heb. 3: 1; Heb. 5: 6, 10; Heb. 6: 20; Heb. 7: 11, 15, 17, 21.

Acts 24:17-18 Now after many years I came to bring alms and offerings to my nation, 18 in the midst of which some Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple NKJV

The BoM prophets claim the High Priesthood that Abraham held and that allowed Paul a Benjamite to worship in the temple. Since they had the high preisthood they could worship in the Temple as Paul did.

Alma 13:14 Yea, humble yourselves even as the people in the days of Melchizedek, who was also a high priest after this same order which I have spoken, who also took upon him the high priesthood forever. 15 And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed. 16 Now these ordinances were given after this manner, that thereby the people might look forward on the Son of God, it being a type of his order, or it being his order, and this that they might look forward to him for a remission of their sins, that they might enter into the rest of the Lord. 17 Now this Melchizedek was a king over the land of Salem; and his people had waxed strong in iniquity and abomination; yea, they had all gone astray; they were full of all manner of wickedness; 18 But Melchizedek having exercised mighty faith, and received the office of the high priesthood according to the aholy order of God, did preach repentance unto his people. And behold, they did repent; and Melchizedek did establish peace in the land in his days; therefore he was called the prince of peace, for he was the king of Salem; and he did reign under his father.

157 posted on 07/09/2007 5:16:27 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: MHGinTN
>>>That is stunningly beautiful! By far the best post I’ve ever seen from you. With that positive note I’ll bid you adieu.

Thanks, its been fun, but I'm ready to call it for now too. I'd say we have both done quite the job of trying to represent our side of the debate.

158 posted on 07/09/2007 5:18:36 PM PDT by Rameumptom (Gen X= they killed 1 in 4 of us)
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To: imjustme

I pray somehow sometime soon people can come togather and united of what we have in common ground!


159 posted on 07/09/2007 6:03:01 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Rameumptom

Smith could run all he wanted. He wouldn’t take a single state, and with possible exception of IL wouldn’t tip the election in any.

For Democrats to enter into a conspiracy to murder him to prevent his running would make no sense.

I’m agnostic on how wide the conspiracy to murder him was.


160 posted on 07/09/2007 6:27:36 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.)
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