Posted on 07/08/2007 5:15:15 PM PDT by Reaganesque
By the time Abraham Lincoln won the presidential election in 1860, there had already been several attempts on his life. His anti-slavery stance caused the nation to split within days of his victory. Because his life was in danger, he was hidden in the luggage rack of the train that took him into Washington, D.C., and for the first time in our democracy, a duly elected president had to be sneaked into the White House under the cover of darkness. Decades before Lincoln, Joseph Smith’s progressive announcement that he would run for president on an anti-slavery platform was explosive and all but doomed. His plans of turning prisons into learning institutions, or giving felons jobs on public works projects, or annexing Texas and Oregon into the Union, were lost to angry mobs that would take his life four months after his announcement to run. Here is a brief look at the long history of Mormons and politics.
Joseph Smith for President
Under the leadership of Joseph Smith, Nauvoo was growing faster and larger than most cities in America, including neighboring Chicago. When Joseph contemplated a run for the White House, he was up against a litany of new laws designed by the establishment to leave things as they were. Slavery was growing more and more divisive and was barely eased by sneaking black citizens out of southern plantations and hiding them in a northerly network of basements, attics, and barns. The issue of slavery was not ignored by the Prophet; even before his candidacy, he once said regarding slavery, “It makes my blood boil.”
Joseph’s campaign started in Nauvoo in February of 1844, and soon news spread to neighboring states that the Mormon prophet was running for president. He was then serving as lieutenant general of the Nauvoo Legion, which at the time had over three thousand men and was second in size only to the U.S. Army. He was also the mayor of the city.
Nauvoo was already making news around the country and so were the “Mormons.” Newspapers and magazines were publishing stories and drawings of the flourishing city. Nauvoo was the subject of many books written by travelers who happened upon it on their trips down the Mississippi.
Joseph Smith fascinated most readers, even, or particularly, when the news of him was critical. His name was already deemed good or bad among many Americans. Etchings and drawings of him that appeared in print frequently showed him in formal or proper attire and often plump and noble looking. Eastern reporters and dignitaries that came to meet Joseph were surprised that he was the strong, young man who helped carry their luggage from the steamboat. He loved to work and was often in his work clothes. His home, by necessity, was converted into a hotel of sorts, and many times it was full. There were nights when he and Emma would sleep out on the front lawn because every room in the house was occupied.
Joseph’s bid for president included a pamphlet outlining his views on government and policy. He proposed several ideas that were progressive and even dangerous, yet long after Joseph Smith, when Lincoln announced his candidacy in nearby Springfield, Illinois, his anti-slavery ideas were explosive and deadly. Lincoln’s life was threatened from the moment he began his campaign. When Booth eventually killed him, it was the third time someone had shot at him.
Not far from Springfield, and fifteen years before Lincoln, Joseph not only called for an end to slavery, but he actually published a plan on how it could be done by 1850. Joseph wrote:
“I ever feel a double anxiety for the happiness of all men, both in time and in eternity, where the Declaration of Independence which states that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; but at the same time some two or three million of our people are held as slaves for life, because the spirit in them is covered with a darker skin than ours. Government officers, who are nothing more nor less than the servants of the people, ought to be directed to ameliorate the condition of all, black or white, bond or free; for ‘God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on the face of the earth.’
“’We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice … and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity’ meant just what it said without reference to color or condition. Petition, also, ye goodly inhabitants of the slave states, your legislators to abolish slavery by the year 1850, or now, and save the abolitionist from reproach and ruin, infamy and shame. Pray Congress to pay every man a reasonable price for his slaves out of the surplus revenue arising from the sale of public lands, and from the deduction of pay from the members of Congress.”
Joseph Smith’s progressive ideas fell prematurely on the printed pages of history decades before it would begin to embrace such concepts. He declared the debtor’s prisons to be cruel and unjust. He wanted to reduce the number of congressmen to just two per state, and suggested Congress take no more pay than the hard working farmers, “who earn an honest living.”
Whatever role the Prophet Joseph Smith would have played as the president of the United States was ended on June 27, 1844, just four months after his announcement to run.
Governor Brigham Young
In the rotunda of the U.S. Capital Building in Washington, D.C., is a series of statues of past state leaders. Brigham Young’s statue, carved in marble, sits among them on the east side of the room. It stands as a monument to someone who not only settled Utah, but who really colonized much of the west. In addition to Utah, Brigham Young also helped to settle Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, California, Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming.
As the first governor of the Deseret Territory, Brigham Young did much to build a place where people could not only live, but thrive. He went to work on the infrastructure of what was needed to sustain the people. First things first, Brigham proposed a cultural hall and theater. It would be a place where the Saints could get what he thought was essential to the human experience: some laughter and enjoyment. The cultural hall was one of the first buildings to begin construction in the area.
He then went to work sending people to different parts of the West to settle towns. He established over 350 communities. He oversaw the building of canals, railroads, and temples. He founded banks, stores, schools, and several universities. He literally created dozens of other industries so that citizens would have plenty of work and commerce.
Brigham Young saw the need and benefit of educating women. He not only opened the Deseret University (now the University of Utah) to all women, but he also sent groups of women back east to medical schools and hospitals for training. Some of the very first female doctors in America were Mormon women. He amended the territory constitution to allow women and black citizens to vote.
Brigham Young was the first Latter-day Saint governor in American history, and the impact and growth of his ideas still continue to this day. The statue of him in the capitol building, sculpted by his grandson Mahonri, is there because of his role as an early leader, yet his success as a colonizer of the entire western United States is still being acknowledged and studied today.
Sending a Latter-day Saint to the U.S. Senate
In 1903, Reed Smoot was the first Latter-day Saint to become a U.S. senator. His arrival in Washington, D.C., created a stir that would soon build into an actual Senate investigation. At issue was whether or not Senator Smoot’s seat should be contested since he was a member of a church that was associated with plural marriage, though he never practiced plural marriage and the Church had issued its manifesto stopping the practice over decade before. Some insiders felt the investigation was a power play to keep one more Republican senator out, and Smoot was the easy target.
The proceedings went on for four years. The halls of the Senate were filled daily with spectators and reporters. When all was said and done, Senator Smoot took his seat in the Senate and everyone went back to work. He went on to serve in the Senate for a total of thirty years.
Senator Smoot became one of the most respected and powerful senators on Capitol Hill. He became a close friend and confidant to President Warren G. Harding, who, in 1920, offered Smoot a seat on his cabinet as the head of the Treasury. His tireless efforts and unwavering integrity in the Senate earned him and the Latter-day Saints the respect and esteem of many Washington leaders. He has been recognized over the years as one of the great senators in American history.
The records surrounding his proceedings now fill over eleven feet of shelf space, the largest collection of proceedings in the National Archives. When speaking of the struggle Reed Smoot faced, President John F. Kennedy said:
“Fortunately the forces of reason and tolerance enabled him to take his seat. And in the years that followed, Senator Smoot earned the respect and affection of every Senator who had challenged him. He rose to be dean of the Senate and chairman of its powerful Committee on Finance—and no voice was ever heard to say that he had not been devoted solely to the public good as he saw it.”
Ezra Taft Benson
As a young graduate from BYU and a returned missionary who served in Britain, Ezra Taft Benson began his career by going into agriculture, which was the leading industry in America. In 1939, when he was working at the University of Idaho, President Benson moved to Washington, D.C., where he became the executive secretary to the National Council of Farmer Cooperative. The first stake in Washington, D.C., was organized with Ezra Taft Benson as its stake president.
In 1953, Benson was asked by President Eisenhower to be the Secretary of the Agriculture, which was a very powerful position at the time. When he tried to explain that he was a busy apostle in his church and might not be the best candidate for the job, Eisenhower told him that the most spiritual work he could do was to strengthen his country. At the encouragement of President David O. McKay, Elder Benson took his seat in Eisenhower’s cabinet and became the second apostle in Church history to divide his time between the federal government and his work with the Church.
Five Latter-day Saints Have Run for President
Joseph Smith announced that he would seek the office of president of the United States in February 1844. Up until that time, his highest elected office was that of mayor of Nauvoo. Shortly after his announcement, he released a pamphlet about his views on the policies of the federal government. It caused immediate turmoil with his enemies when he not only suggested abolishing slavery within five years, but he laid out a plan on how to do so.
Joseph Smith had unmatched experience in leading a large number of people and building a fast growing city. He was already the commander in chief of the second largest military body in America.
George W. Romney, father of Mitt Romney, announced his candidacy in 1966. He had been president of American Motors Corporation and served as a popular and respected governor of Michigan. For a time, he was the GOP favorite and was expected to take the nomination for his party.
Romney’s lead slipped in the polls and he eventually decided to withdraw from the presidential race when Nelson Rockefeller became a candidate. “There was no way I could get the nomination fighting both Rockefeller and Richard Nixon,” Romney told reporters. He went on to serve both in public and private endeavors.
Morris “Mo” Udall came from an early pioneer family that was among those who settled Mesa, Arizona. He served in Congress for almost two decades when he made a bid for the White House on the Democratic ticket. Some believed Udall had actually won his party’s nomination late into the night of the convention voting. He was declared the winner by several people, but by dawn’s early light, he was behind by 7,500 votes, and thus Jimmy Carter went on to represent the party.
Orrin Hatch, a Utah Senator for more than thirty years, has served with six U.S. Presidents. Although his political ambitions have often led him to seek appointments outside the Senate, such as a seat in the Supreme Court and the Attorney General’s Office, his most public attempt was his bid for president of the United Sates in 2000. He lost the bid to Texas Governor, George W. Bush.
Mitt Romney formally announced his candidacy in February 2007. His impressive victory in the race for Massachusetts governor astonished both Democrats and Republicans, creating a presidential buzz long before his announcement. His record for surmounting difficult tasks has always been impressive; winning a very liberal and mostly Catholic state was no small feat.
Some of Romney’s issues for his presidency include: simplifying the tax system, creating energy independence for America, fixing our competitive edge with Asia, and restoring the America’s educational lead in technology and sciences. Go to mittromney.com for more information.
A Century of Progress
1833: W.W. Phelps printed an explosive article in the Evening and Morning Star titled “Free People of Color.” The article invited black citizens from around the country to join the Church and move to Missouri to “live among” the Saints. Missouri was a slave state, and by law people could beat any free black person with ten lashes when he or she crossed in or out of the state. The article sparked a mob riot that led to the destruction of the press and the expulsion of the Saints from Missouri. In that same year the revelation came: “Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another” (Doctrine and Covenants 101:79). This verse brought further violence to the Saints.
1838: John Corrill became the first Latter-day Saint ever to be elected to any office. He held a seat on the Missouri State Legislature. Few if any knew he was a Mormon.
1839: Joseph Smith traveled to Washington, D.C., and met with President Martin Van Buren at the White House. President Van Buren told Joseph Smith that nothing could be done about the lawlessness of the Missourians. The Prophet left a copy of the Book of Mormon with the president, met with and preached to several congressmen, and sat for interviews with a few national newspapers.
1841: The first missionary to be called to labor in the nation’s capitol, Samuel James, arrived in Washington, D.C.
1844: Joseph Smith’s announced his bid for the White House.
1860: Abraham Lincoln, who met Joseph Smith and signed the Nauvoo charter when he was in the legislature in Illinois, was elected President of the United States on an anti-slavery platform.
1867: The Saints in Utah amended their constitution, removing the “Free, White, Male” requirement in order to vote. This cleared the way for both black citizens and women to vote. The U.S. Constitution would not guarantee these rights for blacks until 1870 and for women until 1920.
1868: In the October general conference, Brigham Young announced he would be sending Utah women to eastern universities to train as physicians. Many of the men in the medical schools were outraged and did anything they could to stop the women.
1872: The first woman to be deputized as a sheriff in the United States was an LDS woman named Ellen B. Ferguson.
1896: Martha Hughes Cannon ran for Utah State Senate on the Democratic ticket, and defeated her own husband who was running for the same seat as a Republican. She became the first woman in American history to serve as a state senator.
1896: Heber Wells became the first elected Governor of Utah, and the first Latter-day Saint to hold the office of Governor of any state (Brigham Young governed a territory).
1953: Ivy Baker Priest, an LDS woman from Coalville, Utah, became the first woman to ever serve as U.S. Treasurer. Her signature appeared on U.S. currency from 1953 to 1961.
1972: Jean Westwood, an LDS woman from Price, Utah, became the first woman in history to serve as chairperson of the National Democratic Committee.
1981: Paula Hawkins, who was LDS, became the first woman elected to the United States Senate to accompany her husband to Washington, D.C. As a result, the long standing “Senate Wives Club” was forced to change its name to the “Senate Spouse Club.”
1982: Bay Buchanan, while serving as the head of the U.S. Treasury Department, decided to take the missionary discussions and converted to the Church.
2006: Harry Reid from Nevada became the first LDS Senate majority leader, and the highest-ranking LDS politician.
The First Mormon in the White House
In the fall of 1839, Joseph Smith and a small group of Latter-day Saints traveled to Washington, D.C., to meet with President Martin Van Buren. In a meeting held at the White House, the Prophet explained his situation and gave detailed accounts of the injustice the Saints had suffered at the hands of both lawless mobs and a renegade state government. President Van Buren gave his famous reply: “Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you. If I take up for you, I shall lose the vote of Missouri.”
Abraham Lincoln Reads the Book of Mormon
Abraham Lincoln walked down the cold streets of Washington, D.C., on November 18, 1861, to the Library of Congress and checked out a couple of books. Lincoln’s signature and his government office, “President, U.S.,” appears in the library ledger which notes that he took a copy of the Book of Mormon. Records show that he returned the book on July 29, 1862. He later had two other books delivered to the White House, Gunnison’s Mormons and Hyde’s Mormonism. Lincoln was already familiar with the Latter-day Saint people since he had met Joseph Smith in Illinois and was a signer on the original charter for Nauvoo.
Meet Mitt
Prior to his Mitt Romney’s Olympic service, most people knew more about Governor George Romney than they did his son. Mitt’s work in the private sector can be seen in the companies he helped create like: Staples, Domino’s Pizza, Sealy Mattress, Brookstone, and The Sports Authority. But at last it was his highly visible impact on the sinking 2002 Olympics that showcased what Mitt could do.
In his three years at the helm of the Salt Lake City Organizing Committee, Romney erased a $379 million operating deficit, organized 23,000 volunteers, galvanized both community and national spirit, and oversaw an unprecedented security mobilization just months after the September 11 attacks, leading to one of the most successful Olympics in our country’s history.
Romney surprised both Democrats and Republicans when he won the election for governor in a mostly liberal state, which seemed to always favor someone with the last name Kennedy. At the beginning of Romney’s term as governor of Massachusetts, his state was losing thousands of jobs every month. Then, in Olympic style, he went to work on a series of crushing problems. Without raising taxes or increasing debt, Governor Romney balanced the budget every year of his administration, closing a three-billion-dollar gap he inherited when he took office, transforming all deficits into surpluses. His agenda going forward, which is listed on his website (mittromney.com), details the top ten problems he would fix as president. It ranges from simplifying the tax system to competing with Asia in education and technology to protecting our global strengths.
Mitt Romney and his high school sweetheart-turned-wife have five sons, (Tagg, Matt, Josh, Ben, and Craig). Mitt attended BYU and was valedictorian. He went on to get his JD/MBA from Harvard Law and Harvard Business School.
JFK Speaks at Mormon Tabernacle
Like Mitt Romney, a young presidential candidate, John F. Kennedy, was forced to answer many questions about his religion. Although he tried to focus on policy instead, the press wouldn’t let qualms about his religion go, despite the fact that Article VI of the U.S. Constitution states: “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”
In 1960, while speaking from the pulpit in the Mormon Tabernacle on Temple Square, John F. Kennedy said the following in reference to his battle with the subject of his religion: “I am grateful to the presidency of the Latter-day Saint Church, and to its presiding bishopric, for according me the privilege of speaking within the historic walls of this magnificent tabernacle. This is an honor which I shall long remember.
“Tonight I speak for all Americans in expressing our gratitude to the Mormon people—for their pioneer spirit, their devotion to culture and learning, their example of industry and self-reliance. They suffered persecution and exile, at the hands of Americans whose own ancestors, ironically enough, had fled here to escape the curse of intolerance.
“But they never faltered in their devotion to the principle of religious liberty—not for themselves alone, but for all mankind. And in the eleventh Article of Faith, the Prophet Joseph Smith not only declared in ringing tones: ‘We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience’—but he also set forth the belief that all men should be allowed ‘the same privilege. Let them worship how, where, or what they may.’ Then—and only then—can we truly heed the command which Brigham Young heard from the Lord more than a century ago—the command he conveyed to his little band of followers: ‘Go as pioneers, to a land of peace.’”
John F. Kennedy; September 23, 1960; Salt Lake City
I doubt you will get many answers..........
Since one MUST accept that Joseph Smith actually WAS visited by two divine personages in bodily form appearing to him, whom he identified as Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in order to accept the theory of "restoration of what was corrupted by the precepts of man over the centuries", I fail to see the problem.
Jack Kennedy spoke from the Mormon Tabernacle pulpit? Is there a difference in the Mormon Tabernacle and the “Temple”? It’s my understanding that non-Mormons are not allowed in the Temple. Is this correct? If so, then there must be a difference in the two.
I did a Google Search to no avail re: this question.
There is support and there is blind allegiance.
Bay Buccanan is LDS?
“Joseph’s campaign started in Nauvoo in February of 1844, and soon news spread to neighboring states that the Mormon prophet was running for president. He was then serving as lieutenant general of the Nauvoo Legion, which at the time had over three thousand men and was second in size only to the U.S. Army. He was also the mayor of the city.”
Basically, Joseph was setting up a secessionist movement of his own, so I stand by my assessment that he was a tinpot general..
Not the worst article I’ve seen, but were I to post something so biased the source harpies would descend to pluck out my eyes.
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Mormonism | Christianity |
|---|---|---|
| What is the Church? |
The LDS Church is the only true church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church (Doctrine and Covenants [D&C] 1:30); all other churches are "wrong," all their creeds an "abomination," and all who profess them are "corrupt" (Joseph Smith, History 1:19, Pearl of Great Price). One either belongs to "the church of the Lamb of God" or to "the church of the devil" (1 Nephi 14:10). Joseph Smith taught that everybody but Mormons will be damned (History of the Church 3:28), and the Book of Mormon teaches that if an individual doesn't repent in "this life" then one is sealed to the devil and "this is the final state of the wicked" (Alma 34:32-35). For LDS, this Book of Mormon passage typically means that apostates or these sons of perdition who willfully deny Christ and His Church after being a part of it end up in "outer-darkness" forever excluded from the presence of God in His celestial kingdom. But depending on how good the other non-members are in this life and the next determines their place in one of two lower heavenly kingdoms or "degrees of glory"--the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms--both of which are still outside the presence of God in His kingdom (D&C 76). Whether there may be any possible advancement out of these kingdoms still depends on acceptance of the LDS Church as the only true church. |
The church is a body of various believers and groups of believers. The one true church is the invisible, spiritual, and universal body of Christ in heaven and on earth made up of all those true believers from various local denominations or visible churches. Unity in the church does not demand complete uniformity in its various manifestations. God loves diversity. Yet the church's unity is in Christ, who is the vine. People in various denominations who are committed to the Vine are the branches; no one particular manifestation of the church is the vine (Matthew 16:18; John 15:5; Acts 15:35-41, 20:28; 1 Corinthians 11:19, 12:13ff.; and Ephesians 4:1-13). |
| What is divine salvation? |
Divine salvation is unconditional for resurrection and conditional for eternal life. In one sense, salvation is universal immortality and resurrection by grace alone, and is given to everyone except apostates. In another sense, salvation is eternal life or exaltation into the highest kingdom. The latter is dependent on grace through faith and one's works (2 Ne. 25:23; D&C 76:40-44; and Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 669-71). |
Divine salvation is always conditional. Divine salvation is always from sin and its consequence of separation from God. This salvation is always conditioned upon faith. Until this occurs, God considers the individual dead. When this salvation occurs, one has eternal life (Jn. 5:24; Romans 5; Eph. 2:1-10; and 1 Jn. 5:10-13). |
| Are there other Gods? |
There are many Gods for other worlds, and each God is equal to the God of this world in terms of His nature. There are many gods who create and rule over other worlds, and on those worlds, worship excludes the God of our world. So there is only one God for us, and this God is typically referred to as the Heavenly Father. Mormons may also speak of the term "God" in reference to "the Godhead," which is a team of separate Gods (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 576-7; Joseph Fielding Smith, ed., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-7 [pre-2002 edition]; Abraham 4:1, Pearl of Great Price; Gospel Principles, 245 [1997 edition], and 302; "God," LDS Bible Dictionary; and Blake Ostler, "Review of The Mormon Concept of God: A Philosophical Analysis by Francis J. Beckwith and Stephen E. Parrish," FARMS Review of Books [Provo, UT: FARMS, 1996], 99-146). |
There is only one God for all worlds. There is only one God who created and rules over everything in existence. LDS simply devalue and weaken God when they think that He did not create something like some other world (Genesis 1:1; Deuteronomy 4:39; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 96:5; Isaiah 40:12-20; 43:10; 44:6, 8, and 24; Jn. 1:1-3; and 17:3). |
| The Trinity? |
The Trinity means three separate Gods, who are one in their nature and become one in purpose. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate gods, who are one in purpose and nature, but not in a being they share eternally (Ibid; Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 372 [pre-2002 edition]). There was a time when the person of the Father (Elohim) was without the person of the Son (Jehovah) as His Son. Thus, there was a time in which Elohim was not the Father. |
The Trinity means three inseparable Persons, who are eternally God in purpose, nature, and being. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct or different persons, who are eternally and inseparably one in purpose, nature, and being (Ibid.; Mt. 3:16; 4:10; and 28:16-20). So the Father is not the same person as the Son, and the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father, but nonetheless, each Person eternally makes up the only Being of God there is. |
| Are men and God the same nature or species? |
Men and God are of the same nature or species. The nature of these gods is identical to the nature of man, and as such these humans had to become gods; they haven't always been gods (Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345 [pre-2002 edition]; Thomas C. Romney, The Life of Lorenzo Snow, 46; D&C 76:23-4; and Abraham 3:18-28). |
Men and God are not of the same nature or species. God has His own unique nature that man, a created being by definition, cannot ever have. God is God by nature, and not by obtainment (Ps. 90:2; Ezekiel 28:2 and 9; Hosea 11:9; Acts 14:15; Galatians 4:8; and 2 Peter 1:3-4). |
| Does God in His nature have flesh and bones? |
God is an exalted man with flesh and bones. God the Father and Jesus Christ have tangible bodies of flesh and bones, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. Personages of spirit are still material with a certain form or shape, but they are not as tangible as the bodies of those who are sent to a mortal planet (Ibid.; D&C 130:22; 131:7-8; and "Spirit" in the LDS Bible Dictionary). |
God is not an exalted man with flesh and bones. Since He is the Creator of all things outside of Himself (e.g., the entire material universe), God is too big for a body. He does not need a body or anything else to operate anywhere in all of creation; He is all powerful. And since He is all powerful, He can take any type of form or nature to show up any way He wants to (1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:24; Luke 3:22; and Jn. 4:21-24). |
| Can human beings become Gods for other worlds as God is God for this world? |
Human beings may become Gods for other worlds as God is God for this world. Worthy Mormons may become gods to create, rule over and receive worship from their own worlds some day. They will do this exclusively as the god or the team of gods for that world or that set of worlds (like the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are for this world or this set of worlds), and thus the God of this world will not perform those functions there (Ibid; D&C 76:50-58 and 95, 132:15-23, 29, and 37; and Gospel Principles, 302 [1997 edition]). |
Human beings cannot become Gods for other worlds as God is God for all worlds. When all believers become what some Christians such as C. S. Lewis call "gods" in heaven (although the Bible never uses this language of glorified individuals), they are still dependent and human "gods," and not God by nature, who alone is eternally the Author and Sustainer of literally all that is outside Himself. He is the only God in this fundamental sense of the term (Ibid.; and Lewis, Mere Christianity [N.Y.: Macmillan, 1952], vi, 160, 172). |
| Was the God of this world once a man who became God? |
The God of this world was once a man who became God. God is an exalted man, who needed to do certain things in order to become God for this world (Ibid.; James Talmage, Articles of Faith, 430; and Gospel Principles, 41% [1997 edition]). |
The God of this world is the God for all worlds, so He never was a man who had to become God. God has always been God, and thus is not so needy (Ibid.). |
| Does the Father have a Father? |
The Heavenly Father has a Heavenly Father before Him. God the Father has a Father whom He followed as Jesus had followed His Father in order to become a god (Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 373 [pre-2002 edition]). |
There was no Heavenly Father before the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is no other God before God. He is not so weak that He needed to serve and receive counsel from some other God in order to become God; He always was God (Ps. 90:2; Isa. 40:12-20; and 43:10). |
| Does God need a wife to become God? |
God needs a wife to become God. God the Father has at least one wife that He needed in order to become exalted to Godhood, and by at least one wife we on this world were all literally born as spirit children prior to taking on our tangible bodies of flesh and bones via our mortal parents (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 516-7; Brigham Young, The Journal of Discourses 1:50; Gospel Principles, 15 [1997 edition]; and the popular hymn "O My Father"). |
God does not need a wife to become God. Since God is not a man by nature it is impossible for Him as the eternal God to even enter into a human marital relationship that He would need to become God and sexually produce us. It is just as impossible for God to lie. He does not need anything, let alone a wife, to become God. If it were even possible for the Father to strive to exaltation, then we would expect God's courtship and marriage to be a perfect one in which He received counsel from the other partner(s). But what kind of God would this be? As the All Perfect Being by nature, it is also impossible for God to receive any counsel (Ibid; 1 Kings 8:27; and Hebrews 6:18). |
| Is there anything that the Father did not create? |
There are things that the Father did not create. Thus God the Father did not create the planet that His Father had already created. No God for any world created all worlds. No God for any world created intelligence, matter, or the laws that govern them. These are eternal. Any person, including a God for any world, eternally existed as intelligence, and not as God (Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 373 [pre-2002 edition]; D&C 93:29-33; 131:7-8; and Abraham 3:18-28). |
There is nothing that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit did not create. There is only one Being who created and rules over everything in existence. LDS simply devalue and weaken God when they think that He did not create something like some other world (Gen. 1:1; Deut. 4:39; Isa. 40:12-20; 43:10; 44:6, 8, and 24; Jn. 1:1-3; and Acts 17:24-28). |
| Is there anything that the Son did not create? |
There are things that the Son did not create. Jesus being the literal son of exalted human gods obviously did not create all things either. For example, He did not create the planet He was born on as a spirit child (Ibid.; Gospel Principles, 17-20 [1997 edition]; and 27-29). |
There is nothing that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit did not create. Prior to becoming man, Jesus existed as "the only begotten God" (Jn. 1:18, New American Standard [NAS] and in the best Greek manuscripts). As such, He created everything that was ever created from the very beginning (Jn. 1:1-3). When LDS relativize His creation to only concerning the things of this world or this set of worlds--i.e., not literally all worlds, this devalues and cheapens Jesus, who has not only the nature of man (1 Timothy 2:5), but also the nature of "God over all blessed forever" (Rom. 9:5, emphasis added). |
| Are Jesus and Lucifer spirit-brothers? |
Jesus and Lucifer are spirit-brothers. Jesus was the first one born of heavenly parents, and Lucifer was a younger sibling. Jesus is referred to as Lucifer's, as well as our, elder brother in the pre-earth life (Ibid.; and Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel through the Ages, 15). |
Jesus created Lucifer. For LDS to think that Christ is simply our and Lucifer's elder brother in some supposed pre-earth life is blasphemous devaluing of Christ's divine nature. Christ may rightly be referred to as a brother in our humanity, but in addition to that, He is our Creator... and not simply of our bodies (Ibid.; Colossians 1:13-18; Heb. 1:2 and 6-14; and 2:6-18). |
| Has Jesus always been God? |
Jesus has not always been God. Jesus, like all other gods before Him, had to become a God. He is the literal Son of God like we are children of God, but He's without sin (Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-7 [pre-2002 edition]). |
Jesus has always been God. Jesus has always been the only God there is along with the Father and Holy Ghost (Ibid; Isa. 43:10; Mt. 28:19; Jn. 1:1-3 and 14; and 8:56-59). |
| Should the Son receive the same worship as the Father? |
The Son should not receive the same worship as the Father. Jesus is not worshipped equally with the Father, since Jesus is not our begetter. Jesus is not even directly prayed to. Prayer is directed only to the Father in the name of Jesus (Gospel Principles, 41 [1997 edition]; McConkie, BYU Devotional [March 2, 1982], 17, 19, and 20). |
The Son should receive the same worship as the Father. Since Jesus is God by nature, He is worshipped equally with the Father. Jesus receives both worship and prayer, and we are commanded to do so (Mt. 4:10; 28:16-20; Jn. 5:18-23; 14:14, NAS and in the best Greek manuscripts; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2; and 1 Jn. 5:13-15). |
| Who is the Holy Ghost? |
The Holy Ghost is a man and son of God. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the Holy Ghost is a spirit man, a spirit son of God the Father. It is fundamental Church doctrine that God is the Father of the spirits of all men and women, that Jesus is literally God's Son both in the spirit and in the flesh, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Eternal Godhead, and is identified also as the Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, and the comforter" (Encyclopedia of Mormonism 2:649; cf. D&C 130:22-23; and "Holy Ghost" in the LDS Bible Dictionary). |
The Holy Ghost is God by nature. Since the Holy Ghost is the inseparable third person of the only Being of God there is, He is not a man by nature that became exalted into a separate god for a Godhead team (2 Samuel 23:2-3; Mt. 28:19; Acts 5:3-4; and Acts 13:2). |
| Is God a racist? |
God curses certain individuals with dark skin. The races are determined by how worthy individuals were prior to this mortal life. Blacks were not as faithful in their first estate. The Book of Mormon teaches that God cursed certain Israelite American Indians with dark skin, and this was meant to keep them from interbreeding with their white brethren. This scripture also teaches that God blessed some who repented with white skin. Nothing concerning the revelation in 1978 to give "all worthy males members" the priesthood invalidates these beliefs (Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:61-7; McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 527-8; Alma 3:6-9; 2 Ne. 5:21-4; and 3 Ne. 2:14-6). |
God does not curse anyone with dark skin. God blesses humanity with different colors of skin, and no skin color is more favorable to Him than another. Race is not the real issue anyway, for we are all one in Christ (Gal. 3:28). |
| Did Christ die for all sins? |
Christ did not die for all sins. Christ did not atone for the murderer, since there is no forgiveness for him "in this world, nor in the world to come." And Christ did not pay for more than a one-time offense of adultery, since such violators cannot be forgiven either (D&C 42:18 and 25-29). Actually, according to one apostle, Christ atoned simply for Adam's sin, and left "us responsible only for our own sins." This apostle goes on to quote the 2nd Article of Faith that claims "men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression" (Le Grand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder [1976], 98). Other LDS prophets have taught that there are certain "sins" that one may commit that are beyond the atonement of the Son of God, and one's own blood must be shed in such cases (Young, The Journal of Discourses 3:247; 4:53-54; 4:219-20; and Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:133-136). |
Christ did die for all sins. Christ atoned for all sins (Adam's as well as everyone else's). The Lord Jesus took the punishment of everyone on the cross. The debt we could never pay has been completely paid by the Lamb of God, and to those who receive this gift, they are declared "justified" or "not guilty." This is the good news (the gospel) for everyone, including the adulterer and the murderer (Isa. 53:3-12; Mt. 18:21-22; Rom. 3:24; 4:5; 5:1-2; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 15:3; 2 Cor. 5:14-21; 1 Pt. 2:24; and 1 Jn. 1:8-2:2). |
| What role do good works play with our standing before God? |
Good works are meritorious for right standing before God. Good works are a necessary requirement of salvation and right standing before God (1 Ne. 3:7; 2 Ne. 25:23; Alma 5:27-28; 11:37; 34:33-35; Moroni 10:32; D&C 1:24-33; 25:15-16; 42:18-29; 58:34-43; 82:5-7; 3rd Article of Faith; Gospel Principles, 74-78 [1997 edition]; and 122-127). |
Good works are not meritorious for right standing before God. Salvation is a free gift that must be received through faith alone, and this automatically is demonstrated by the overall good life produced by it (Ibid.; Rom. 11:6; Gal. 3:11, 23-26, and 5:6; Eph. 2:8-10; and 1 Jn. 5:10-13). |
| Baptism for the dead? |
Baptism for the dead is required. Baptism in place of the dead is an essential ordinance done in LDS temples on behalf of those who died not receiving the benefit of LDS baptism (Gospel Principles, 255-262 [1997 edition]). Joseph Smith said, "The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead" (Fielding Smith, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 356 [pre-2002 edition]). |
Baptism for the dead is not Christian. Baptism for the dead is done by those outside of Christianity, since the Apostle Paul made a contrast between what "they" do and what "we" do. Paul said that even those who do baptism for the dead believe in the resurrection. How much more should we, who do not baptize for the dead and are led by apostles who were eyewitnesses of Christ's resurrection, believe in the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:29-30). |
| The Priesthood? |
The Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods are offered to worthy male members. There are two forms of the priesthood: the Aaronic (the lesser one) and the Melchizedek (the greater one). Without the authority of the priesthood no man can see God and live. It is available for all worthy male members of at least a certain age, who desire to act legally in the name of the Lord. This was extended to those males with black ancestry in 1978 (D&C, Official Declaration--2; 84:6ff.; and Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 3:80). |
The Aaronic priesthood was done away at the cross and the Melchizedek priesthood is unique to Christ. The Aaronic priesthood was done away at the crucifixion of Christ, since He has become our permanent high priest. There is no more need for Levitical priests to offer imperfect sacrifices on behalf of the people in the temple. Jesus alone is worthy to hold the Melchizedek priesthood. Any believer today who has been called out of darkness into the light, regardless of age, race, or sex, is a member of the holy and royal priesthood. The believer operates in the highest authority that is offered today, viz., that of being a child of the Lord Omnipotent. Christians have the true priesthood, since they have the true God who gives it to them (Jn. 1:12; Gal. 3:26-29; 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 4:14; 5:9-10; 7:11-8:2; 9:24; and 1 Pt. 2:5 and 9). |
| The Bible? |
The Bible is unreliable and incomplete for faith. The Bible is the word of God only as it is translated correctly (8th Article of Faith). Evidently, it was not translated very well since Joseph Smith's translation (JST) is quite a bit different from all other versions (also cf. 1 Nephi 13:23-42 where the Bible is corrupted after the founding 12 apostles). Nonetheless, LDS use the King James Version. LDS also have three other books of Scripture--the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price (cf. 2 Nephi 29:3-14). Joseph Smith taught that only LDS believe the Bible and "all other sects believe their interpretations of the Bible, and their creeds" (History of the Church 3:28). |
The Bible is reliable and complete for faith. The Bible claims to be the word of God, and the Bible--including Jesus--promised that it would be faithfully preserved. The general consistency of the Septuagint, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the thousands of other ancient manuscripts, lectionaries, and citations from early Church Fathers all attest to this fact. The Bible is by far the best attested work of antiquity. The Bible is archeologically, historically, prophetically, and scientifically accurate. And since the Bible contradicts all the other scriptures of the LDS Church, they should all be damned (Ps. 12:6-7; Proverbs 30:6; Isa. 40:7-8; Mt. 5:17-19; 24:35; Jn. 10:35; 17:17; and Gal. 1:6-9). |
“Just what FR needs. Another Mormon thread that will turn into a 2000-post fur ball. “
You think this is fun, wait till you get eight years of a Romney presidency and have to debate this stuff day in and day out the entire time.
Can you please answer the question I asked in Post #23?
Thanks,
no dems
I understand all of this. My question was: Is there a difference in the Mormon Temple and the Mormon Tabernacle? It is my understanding that non-Mormons are not allowed into the Temple.
If John Kennedy spoke in the Tabernacle, then there must be a difference in the two or I’ve been misled.
From a Mormon leader:
“These manmade, powerless, hypocritical, false teachers, make merchandise of the people, by preaching for large salaries, amounting in many instances to tens of thousands of dollars annually. They and their deluded followers are reprobate, denouncing the faith once delivered to the Saints.”
- Apostle Orson Pratt, “Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon,” page 20
Now, who is actually denoucing that faith “Once Delivered,” or more accurately, “once for all time delivered?” There doesn’t have to be another delivery through a glass-looking occultist who turned out to be one of the biggest womanizer’s of the 19th century.
Now, let’s see what one ex-Mormon has to say about becoming a Mormon (from the ex-Mormon site):
“THE GREAT MORMON MONEY MACHINE
It’s the World’s Perfect Business Scheme and you can do it too. Just start your own “Afterlife Insurance Company” then make the greatest promise humanly imaginable — promise your clients that if they totally obey you and pay their premiums, after death they’ll become Gods! In fact, polygamous Gods who’ll have eternal sex with innumerable partners! Until then, they’ll enjoy moral supremacy over all humanity. You do need to claim that you’re a prophet of God however, but this is the easiest claim on earth to make and no one can prove you’re lying.
HERE’S YOUR BIG PAYOFF
Using the power of your “Afterlife Insurance Company”:
You demand a whopping ten percent of each client’s income for their policy premiums and...
You publicly humiliate anyone who questions you or fails to pay. This power is so great that...
You can even ban clients from attending things like family weddings! And yet, the absurd irony is...
You don’t have to prove to anyone that your Afterlife Insurance Company actually works, so...
You are worry free because, in this business, all your disillusioned customers are dead. Therefore...
You never pay off a single claim (although you literally promised the Universe). Then, incredibly...
You reverse the Burden of Proof—If others don’t magically know you’re right—they’re wrong! Now...
You destroy rational thought with the delusion that deeply feeling it’s true is all that matters. Soon...
You addict clients so forcefully to your fantasy they fear they can’t live without it! From all this...
You urge mass lying (re: the Emperor’s New Clothes) by saying “All worthy people will know it’s true.”
You now multiply this gullibility with the following arsenal of business weapons —
You exploit your very clients as free labor to run your business for you, even on Sundays.
You command a massive volunteer sales force that must actually pay its own expenses.
You endure almost no outside government interference and with limited regulation and...
You have no inner accountability either, such as member or stockholder oversight! Better yet...
You run a company that pays no taxes, but instead enjoys tax-subsidized dues. Then for comfort...
You answer only to your inside buddies for your personal pay and perks! But not stopping there...
You find abundant opportunities for nepotism and cronyism even outside the firm, because...
You freely raise large venture capital funds for unrelated business schemes. And all this time...
You enjoy total administrative, financial and clubhouse secrecy. Now, Jaded by your aloof stature...
You callously use emotional, social and spiritual extortion as powerful revenue tactics. Coldly...
You hold hostage a family’s togetherness in the hereafter, plus their closeness here. And amazingly...
You even intimidate your clients literally down to their underwear. Then for good measure...
You claim the right to acquire all their worldly possessions too! Your disrespect is so deep that...
You require them to make dour commitments, before even telling them what they’re agreeing to! Yet...
You still passionately kindle their hero worship with great theatrical skill, because, as Matthew put it...
You wear charming sheep’s clothing that makes False Prophets seem so totally respectable. Finally...
You exercise massive social, political and economic clout. And the proverbial “fruits” abound —
You and your cohorts rule vast empires wielding your colossal power and wealth!
This Great Mormon Money Machine is perfect,
(It is) just Lies, Dollars and Sanctimony
__________________
False prophets are “like those who administer a deadly drug in sweet wine, which he who is ignorant of does greedily take, with a fatal pleasure leading to his own death.” Ignatius of Antioch
You must have taken your happy pills today fastkootie! LLL
at least you made me smile!:)
You see MHG knows a lot of cut and paste but knowing terms he is a little weak.
The tabernacle is where concerts and large meetings are held.
The Temple is the House of the Lord and only those LDS who keep their covenants are allowed to enter.
I think the article has some interesting history but it's target audience was not a conservative rumpus room like FR. There is not enough depth in the article. It clearly is one sided and invites those who are offended by Mormonism to chime in with an alternate view. What is this kind of discussion going to accomplish?
LOL - thats rich coming from you resty
The Temple is the House of the Lord and only those LDS who keep their covenants are allowed to enter.
um dear - didnt the curtain on the temple rip from the top down to signify that the temple no longer held the spirit and He dwells in our heart ?
Luke 23:44 It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Romans 5:4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. 6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
That said - why does a Mormon temple only allow "Godly" people within, by permission only ?
Why are the temple grounds in palmyra ( a very small 1 stoplight town) fenced ?........Did Christ endeavor to keep the neighbors out ?
The whole temple connection for Mormonism is specious, to be gentle to their victim sensors. According tot he novel, book of mormon, no Levites were with the Jews who migrated to the Americas. Without Levites, it was impossible to keep the Temple ordinances as God gave them to the Jews in Sinai for the supposed millions and millions of Jews who supposedly live and died here on this continent. Regardless of the blatant contradictions to the Bible account of what happened in the Jewish Temple when Christ died on the Cross, the imaginary people in the Ameircas could not have been Temple Ordinance Jews without Levites and if there were Levites here, their Y chromosome would be still around in some Native Ameircan genes. But of course the Native Americans are genetically descended from Asians not Jews as DNA evidence has proven.
Why are the temple grounds in palmyra ( a very small 1 stoplight town) fenced ?........Did Christ endeavor to keep the neighbors out ?
The House of the Lord is a house of Order and Reverence.
Those entering the Lord House are those who been honoring the covenants they made with the Lord.
The natural man can not enter for is an enemy of God
1 Cor 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Mosiah 3:
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father
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