Posted on 06/22/2007 6:57:10 AM PDT by Tribune7
I can understand your annoyance, but what this thread is about is not about illegals in the same educational plane as your son. If he's interested in science, and has good grades, he should be able to get in to most schools that are serious about science in the US, and he won't be competing with illegals.
Now, he may not be able to get into MIT, but few do. Our #2 son was a National Merit Semi Finalist, 4th in his class at a tough all boys Catholic prep school, Math Olympiad winner, Academic Decathalon winner, and missed by 10 points making a perfect score on the SAT. He was interested in Computer Science so I encouraged him to apply to MIT, since it's fairly close. He was rejected by the school, which prompted the head of his Math dept. to ask "What the hell do those people want?" No worries, he didn't really want to go to MIT. He really wanted to go to Carnegie Mellon, where he WAS accepted. He was with some, but not an overwhelming amount of foreign students, and did quite well.
As near as I can tell, simply entering illegally is up to 6 months and up to $500 fine. Basically a misdemeanor. I can't find that overstaying a visa (source of c. 40% of illegals) is illegal in itself -- it subjects you to unpleasant consequences for future immigration status, but I can't find that it's a crime in itself. I'd be happy to be given contrary citations, however.
So, the question is what is the appropriate way of dealing with what degree of law breaking. I mostly agree with the original poster that a sensible system would in fact distinguish between a gangbanger who got here yesterday and someone who came 10 years ago, no criminal record, paid taxes, etc. And there are plenty of both categories.
No soulution is simple, but mine would be:
1. Buld the fence and close the borders as well as we can.
2. No blanket rules. Tell all illegals -- come forth, register, give us your f'prints, dna, and full history. If you don't, or lie, we do our very best to round up and deport. If you do, we let Congress decide how to deal with all those who register, based on their merits and demerits.
Not perfect, but it tells you who wants to be with the program, lets you focus first on those who don't (and why doesn't the gov't put on the internet the 600,000 absconders that it knows about -- they've got to have at least name and last known address -- I bet people could help find an awful lot of them)and it does give those who want to "come in from the shadows" a path, but based on their first recognizing their fault and putting themselves on the mercy of the congress (which has the power to make rules for aliens, under the Constitution).
Has the author done any research on this subject?
How do you treat the millions of illegal aliens who have been here less than 10 years? What you suggest is impractical and unworkable and it just provides additional incentives for people to come here illegally. I don't see any great sense of urgency to legalize the status of those already here. You confer certain rights by doing that, including adding more thru chain migration, i.e., family reunification.
We don't even know how many illegals are here with the numbers ranging widely from 12 to 30 million. How can you make good public policy without good, reliable data?
Thanks! I will. Why do we pour billions upon billions into fighting overseas and not secure our borders?
First, secure the borders
Second, let illegals and their employers pay back taxes as necessary
Third, if they pay up, let immgirants learn remedial English and take citizenship classes
Fourth, process any/all immigrants the same so that honest folks aren't punished for following the law .
A) these people are not interested in assimilating
b) these people are uneducated, unskilled and a net money loser for this country. And that does matter.
c) This week in NC 50% of the workers at a food related plant tested positive for exposure to TB. This is extremely serious business. Illegals are bringing in significant amounts of bad 3rd world diseases. When someone in your family gets a life threatening disease that was not a problem before being overrun by illegals, ask me again why we want them out.
d) anyone besides me notice how these illegals are being portrayed as simple, pristine, just want to work and stay out of trouble folks? As in why would anyone with a heart not want to have these fine people living next door?
e) the birth rate of these illiterate people is several times that of the educated population in this country. Do the math and see where that gets us in a generation. It isn’t pretty.
According to this guy’s logic, what’s wrong with stealing?
These folks come across and access services like taxpaying citizens do. Our kids have to sign up for the draft, and theirs don’t.
On top of that, there are people waiting in line to immigrate the legal way.
Next time I see this guy in line ANYWHERE, I’ll simply cut right in front of him and everyone else, and say, “I’m a productive, law-abiding member of this society - what’s the difference if I cut in line in front of you?”
The logic of this person’s argument is off on so many levels.
IF an illegal immigrant wants to get on a path to citizenship, some form of return andf get in line is the only fair way to handle it in deference to the millions who have gotten in line or are now waiting in line. As for temporary worker visas, well, temporaries are the ones carrying Mexican flags and demanding rights they should not have granted when they’re illegal invaders. The DNC is playing the stupid Pubbies for the fools they have proven themselves to be. Sadly, we get whqat the Republicans deserve, we get the screwing while the elected reps get the pension for life and healthcare. I’d say the DNC is playing the elected Pubbies for fools and the elected Pubbies are playing us for suckers.
How many amnesty boards would it take to process 12 million illegals? Sheesh.
Two points I'd like to make regarding that view.
First, it isn't necessary to have a "your papers please" society to get the problem to a manageable level.
Second, you may not have noticed, but our beloved and benevolent government is already doing that to us. They don't need mexicans as an excuse. Big brother is already here and getting bigger.
Question becomes, why do I get an anal exam with a baseball bat when I open a bank account or get a mortgage, and somehow these same intrusive measures have no effect on hordes of mexicans coming in? They get credit, they get mortgages, they get in state tuition. And Uncle Sam seems interested only in crawling up my butt to examine all aspects of my life. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Good point, and if someone is arrested and found to be illegal, it doesn't matter about the crime with which they are charged, or whether or not they are guilty of it, they should be deported.
Amnesty IS a bad word!
Here's the deal about amnesty that you obviously don't comprehend.....
We have given millions of Mexicans amnesty twice before and each time, there are 3 to 4 times as many as there were the time before......
We have NO control on our borders which means they will keep on coming, knowing that they too will be granted amnesty in a few years......
They will destroy the our culture and tip permanent control of our government to socialists........
The last two times we granted amnesty, we hadn't been attacked by an enemy who has set out to destroy America and kill ALL Americans, and we will be granting terrorists amnesty too........
There was no MS-13 gang, who's members are committing violent crimes against Americans.......
There were NO marches where illegals were DEMANDING MORE RIGHTS while waving the flag of Mexico......
There were NO marches where illegals told AMERICANS to go back to Europe......
There were NO Mexicans who were actively seeking to take America through Reconquesta plans........
Mexicans in either of the previous amnesties were NOT so easily influenced by La Raza, MEChA, or any other racist Mexican groups. THIS alone should show you that they will march again if they are told to, only the next time, they will be citizens of America and their DEMANDS will be much greater........
They will turn America in to the same hell hole that Mexico is........
We will be rewarding criminals sending a signal to them that they DON'T HAVE TO OBEY OUR LAWS......
I could go on and on, but there's no point in it.......
IF you still "don't get it" then there is no use in me wasting my time trying to explain it to you.......
Why don't you move to California and find out? Your Pennsylvania neighborhood is a long way from the problem.
that is a big AMEN!!!!
The point, to which you are clueless, is that the American population of the southwest is being displaced by millions of illegals. LA gangs are just one small aspect of the problem.
That's because offering a false alternative is the only way a foolish option can be made to look good. Much like Bush's own insistence that the only way you will get control of the border is if you let him have his amnesty.
The criteria of speaking English,holding a job,and having someone attest to the character isn’t sufficient. First,it ignores that our immigration laws were broken,that’s a criminal offense,therefore the criteria you present of abiding by the law is demolished.
Further,there are many videos of marches and rallies by the illegals on the internet which show them holding up socialist signs; flags of their countries of origin; flying Old Glory upside down,dragging it on the street and attempting to set it on fire; Also,from those coming from South of our border,which seem to be the most represented in these demonstrations,flying the Mexican flag above ours,holding up signs saying this continent belongs to them and showing other signs of hostility to American citizens.
In addition,American taxpayers must shoulder the financial burdens associated with them besides having to step aside to make room for them in our schools,hospitals,institutions of higher learning and in the job and housing markets. They and their families will be given a share in our Social Security system.
If that isn’t enough,we also must see our tax dollars being used to contribute to groups such as the National Council of La Raza.
It’s been suggested that if they renounce their loyalty to their countries of origin,learn English and take some basic American citizenship classes that will make everything all right. If they say the words that doesn’t mean their hearts and minds will be changed. I doubt that pledging allegiance to our flag will mean true allegiance from someone who flaunts a Che shirt and considers themself to be a Mexican first,for example.
Amnesty for invaders is the Kennedy/DNC way of increasing the dependency class which keeps re-electing democrats to power. Sadly, our president and his party are too stupid to recognize what is the DNC bottom line so all else is skewed off of reality in the debate over closing the borders and deporting invaders.
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