Giuliani Plans to Publicly Embrace Abortion Rights [Rudy declares war on conservatism]

New York Times ^ | May 10, 2007 | By ADAM NAGOURNEY and MARC SANTORA

[Jim Robinson]

After months of giving ambiguous signals on abortion, Rudolph W. Giuliani is planning to offer a forthright affirmation of his support for abortion rights in public forums, television appearances and interviews in the coming days, despite potential consequences among some conservative voters already wary of his views, aides said yesterday.

At the same time, Mr. Giuliani’s campaign — seeking to accomplish the unusual task of persuading the Republican Party to nominate an abortion rights supporter as its presidential candidate — is eyeing a path to the nomination that would try to de-emphasize the early states in which abortion opponents wield a great deal of influence. Instead they would focus on the so-called mega-primary of Feb. 5, in which voters in states like California, New York and New Jersey are likely to be more receptive to Mr. Giuliani’s social views than voters in states like Iowa and South Carolina. They said that approach became more appealing after Florida, another state they said would be receptive to Mr. Giuliani, voted last week to move its primary forward to the end of January.

The shift in emphasis by Mr. Giuliani comes as his campaign has struggled to deal with the fallout from the first Republican presidential candidate debate in which he gave a halting and apparently contradictory responses to questions about his support for abortion rights. Mr. Giuliani’s aides were concerned both because it opened him up to a new round of criticism from abortion critics — who have never been happy with the prospect of a Republican presidential candidate who supports abortion rights — while threatening to undercut his image as a tough-talking iconoclast who does not equivocate on tough issues.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

LOL!

[do the dhue]

I guess the numbers for Roe V Wade need to increase though

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Need one of them electric tickers that keep rolling the numbers along...be hard to do on a Tee...but I bet you could do it in a jacket...

[Antoninus]

On the other hand, Giuliani could put more moderate states like New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in play.

That's a laugher. Pro-lifers are among the most politically active contingent of the GOP in PA and NJ. Without them--or worse, with them working actively against him--Rudy is toast.

[stephenjohnbanker]

That is a whole major country!

[labette]

He's dead Jim

[do the dhue]

LOL

the Jacket would probably sell too!

[Carling]

Rudy is as liberal as they come socially. There is no denying this and his abortion stance is appalling.

That said, are we all believing the NYT now based on info from anonymous aides? Let’s let Rudy dig his own grave before everyone gives credit to a POS publication run by Pinch Sulzberger.

[ellery]

Southern Republicans tend to be social conservatives. Western Republicans tend to be more libertarian. The two often don't overlap. Nevertheless, there are some Southern and Western states where Giuliani could lose 15% or even 20% to a third-party candidate and still win. Do you think libertarians would like Hillary! more, were she to become the Democrat candidate? Remember Waco?

Of course not -- but many social conservatives and libertarian conservatives aren't thinking in binary. They'll vote third party or stay home. You may not agree with that choice, but it's a fact that you must factor in.

I think you're overly optimistic about Giuliani's chances. The past many elections prove that the electorate is very evenly divided. Major segments of the GOP won't support him. Major segments of the antiwar independent/left won't support him. Mainstream dems are likely to be extremely motivated to take back the White House. And the daily, front-page MSM campaign against him hasn't even begun -- when it does, that will take away some of the mushy name-recognition voters. He has very little chance of winning.

[Mr. Mojo]

Don’t stop with abortion, Rudy. Tell the truth about your anti-2nd Amendment sentiments as well. You’ll feel better once you do.

[conservative in nyc]

And once again the gun rights’ supporters are totally ignored. The gun rights’ groups are going to completely sink him.

This article isn't about Giuliani's very questionable stand on gun rights. In the primary, it should hurt him, no question. In a general election again you have to ask whether the Democrat would be any better on gun rights, and where the one-issue gun rights voters would go.

I can tell you this - your typical suburban female swing voter in places like the Philadelphia suburbs supports some form of gun control. Despite the prevalent view on Free Republic, thanks to years of liberal brainwashing on gun control, guns are icky to a large portion of the public, especially suburban female swing voters.

[Beagle8U]

Rooty didn’t like the treatment he got from the pro-life wing. Just wait till he finds out what the pro-gun wing does to him.

Rooty will be longing for the nice pro-lifers to deal with.

[babygene]

“Will the pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun planks be removed from the GOP platform to accommodate Rudy?”

No...

[do the dhue]

ROTFLMAO

I think his brain is gone

I think I cracked a rib laughin'.

[motife]

Giuliani : Pro-Choice or Pro-Reality?
Social Right : Pro-Life or Pro-Fantasy?
Please seriously consider the points I’ve outlined. I’m a Milton Friedman war hawk baffled by the social right’s disconnect with reality on the abortion issue and their willingness to waste so much time on it.

I’d like the social right who waste so much energy on this issue to answer their own “hard questions” about the logistics and practicality of an abortion ban :

1) Both Roberts and Alito at their confirmation hearings said Roe was “settled law”. What did they mean? If there were sincere, what does that say for ANY hopes of overturning Roe? (Answer, no hope. Not going to happen. If even the MOST conservative jurists recognize they’re not going to be confirmed unless they state Roe is settled law, forget it!)

2) But say Roe was overturned anyway, what states would then ban abortion?

South Dakota in 2006 had a referendum passed by their legislature go down in flames 56%-44%. If a ban can’t win in conservative South Dakota, whose legislature supported it, where CAN a ban win? Utah?

How far is it from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas?

3) If a state passed a ban, what is the Social Right’s proposed punishment? The death penalty? A state conservative enough to pass a ban, more conservative than South Dakota, probably has the death penalty. Prison? For the woman, the doctor or both? 5 years, 10 years? 20? What type of felony is being committed?

4) How would it look for women or doctors in orange jump suits and leg irons to be marched into prison in Utah when it’s legal in other states? This is such a polarized issue, even in conservative states that passed a ban on abortions, this would create an unbearable firestorm. These women/doctors would be national martyrs, despite being so STUPID as not to get their abortion in the neighboring state where it is legal.

5) What other developed Western democracies, other than Ireland, Poland and Spain ban abortion? It’s even legal in Italy. Interestingly, it’s illegal in Germany, but there is zero enforcement.

This is such a waste of time and energy. Even without Roe, ANYONE in the U.S. will still be able to get an abortion as easily as they do with it.

And TRY enforcing a ban. That would be another Elian Gonzales or Terry Schivao type fiasco waiting to happen. Probably worse, if that’s possible.

The question is not pro-life or pro-choice. It’s pro-reality.

Someday, the Social Right is going to have to get it through their thick skulls it’s NOT going to happen.

Roe will not be overturned, according to no less that Roberts and Alito. Even if it was, NAME the states that will ban it if is. THEN, tell me the prison time you want for it.

Otherwise... shut up.

Don’t waste the GOP and the American electorate’s time with this colossal waste of hot air. That’s all the social right has on this too. Hot air. NAME the states. NAME the prison times. Be honest with the GOP and the American people. Don’t hide sanctimoniously behind an ultrasound, which are irrelavent unless you ARE WILLING to send women and doctors to PRISON. And TELL US the details

[babygene]

“My favorable feelings towards Giuliani are not based on the abortion issue anyways.”

What are they based on? Support of the 2nd amendment?

[MassachusettsGOP]

The Sad thing is, this is actually not a bad political strategy. (That is declaring a Pro-Abortion stance, not messing around on the issue for months and then declaring a Pro-Abortion position)

Anyway back to my point. With 9, and the potential of a couple other Pro-Life candidates in the race, and just Giuliani as the Pro-Abortion candidate, Giuliani puts himself in place to win a good chunk of the untouched 25-40% of the party (depending on your belief in the polling) that is Pro-Choice. With 9 guys splitting the Pro-Life vote, and one guy taking a majority of the rest, he solidifies a solid base for the Primary. We'll see though, the fact that he botched this delivery kind of negates the benefit.

[Spiff]

This article isn't about Giuliani's very questionable stand on gun rights. In the primary, it should hurt him, no question. In a general election again you have to ask whether the Democrat would be any better on gun rights, and where the one-issue gun rights voters would go. I can tell you this - your typical suburban female swing voter in places like the Philadelphia suburbs supports some form of gun control. Despite the prevalent view on Free Republic, thanks to years of liberal brainwashing on gun control, guns are icky to a large portion of the public, especially suburban female swing voters.

So, you admit that Giuliani is a gun grabber. But you seem to want to tailor our candidates to appeal to the typical, liberal brainwashed suburban female who thinks that guns are "icky". If you do that, then you'll be running liberal candidates. And what will that get you?

[Antoninus]

The pro-death folks are sensing a shift in the country and they are trying to co-opt the Republican Party.

Uh, there's another word for "pro-death." And they've been waiting for this moment for at least 44 years...

From the Current Communist Goals, as read into the Congressional Record in 1963...

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

It never ceases to amaze me how prescient that list has turned out to be. It was a nice country we used to have.

[do the dhue]

Just wait till he finds out what the pro-gun wing does to him.

They can have my gun and body when they pull them from a large pile of empty brass.