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'Free to Lose' Isn't Good Philosophy for the Right Wing (Mark Steyn)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | November 19, 2006 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 11/19/2006 2:39:53 AM PST by Tom D.

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To: goldstategop
I've one foot in both camps and its time to knock conservative heads together.

Agreed, but this will require a true leader, committed to both 'wings', and that man has yet to arrive on the scene.

101 posted on 11/19/2006 3:15:55 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Traditional Vet
he would have to have a message that resonates and his unwillingness to address the root cause of terrorism (ISLAM) as well as his intransigence on Border Security,

Like you I'm a two-time Bush voter, and still support him, as in wanting him to exercise the leadership I know he can. But something has gone haywire. That weird Harriet Meiers nomination for SCOTUS was a sign of it. And he has simply sold his soul on the border security issue.

102 posted on 11/19/2006 3:24:17 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: ExGeeEye
those conservatives for whom the war trumps everything and peripheral piffle like "No Child Left Behind" can be argued over when the jihad's been seen off

That's me.

The whole point of the article is, you shouldn't have to choose. You can have responsible and frugal public spending at home AND prosecute a war on terrorists.

103 posted on 11/19/2006 3:29:33 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Wilhelm Tell

"I believe the GOP leadership does not expect to win and probably does not want to win. They don't want to change so they have contented themselves to a minority party status. That is why they have a defensive stance and have signalled they will follow the Democrats' lead."

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.


104 posted on 11/19/2006 3:31:28 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: RKBA Democrat
The GOP, like the Democratic party, exists to get it's members elected to political office. Hard stop. Ideology is a secondary concern. To the extent that it's even considered.

The Republican Party proved in the 80's with Reagan and in the '90's with the Congress that it can "get its members elected" by proposing conservative policy positions, appealing to the best in people, and exhibiting honest leadership. That just happens to add up to a conservative philosophy but not many people will vote for the philosophy alone.

105 posted on 11/19/2006 3:44:22 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: beaversmom

I don't think Conservatives do a very good job of identifying what the real problems facing us are, either. Too many just go into knee-jerk reactions against Lib proposals.

The first step should be identifying the real problems facing us. We don't do that - we take sides first, and then fight, even when our positions are shaky.
But it's *us* who have to solve the problems, not gov't.


106 posted on 11/19/2006 4:05:58 PM PST by speekinout
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To: speekinout

Reagan actually had well thought-out opinions based on his own experience. He was our best president of the 20th century.

His amnesty was supposed to be backed with border enforcement. Both parties have been criminal in allowing the invasion to continue and grow.


107 posted on 11/19/2006 4:27:39 PM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: sine_nomine

I agree that Reagan was the best President of the 20th century. But he wasn't perfect.

Bush also has opinions based on his experience as Gov. of Texas, and as son of another President (and VP in the Reagan WH) Why aren't those opinions valid?

I think it should be clear by now that we need a reform of immigration policy. But too many people are unrealistic about it. We wouldn't have illegal, unskilled workers from SA if we didn't need them. We need *legal* unskilled workers from there. I'd prefer having temporary guest workers instead of permanent immigrants, but I'm open to discussion about it.
Pretending we don't need these people is beyond silly.


108 posted on 11/19/2006 4:45:40 PM PST by speekinout
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To: hinckley buzzard

"The Republican Party proved in the 80's with Reagan and in the '90's with the Congress that it can "get its members elected" by proposing conservative policy positions, appealing to the best in people, and exhibiting honest leadership."

In general, I agree with you. However, whatever the GOP might have thought or did 12+ years ago is not reflected in what it's thinking or doing right now. The GOP minority in Congress has basically turned it's back on conservatives and made a dash for the center-left on the hope that it can preserve what seats it has. They've tacitly accepted that that they will be a minority party for the forseeable future.

I really do feel badly for my conservative FRiends in the GOP. While I left the GOP many years ago and have little use for the party at this point, I do realize that there are a lot of conservatives who were and are invested in the GOP.


109 posted on 11/19/2006 5:31:04 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: gcruse
"The story of the Western world since 1945 is that, invited to choose between freedom and government "security," large numbers of people vote to dump freedom -- the freedom to make your own decisions about health care, education, property rights, seat belts and a ton of other stuff."

He's right though. A large constituency of the Democrat Party is the recipient class, the would-be recipients and the bureaucracy that supports them (and themselves).

110 posted on 11/19/2006 7:24:26 PM PST by RhoTheta (When your circus has a big tent, you can fit a lot of clowns inside.)
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To: DCPatriot
Why is so important for President Bush to speak the words that the enemy is Islam? The vast majority of Muslims don't follow radical jihad and "death to infidels" crap.

This is a war against radical Muslims -- President Bush needs to explain that. Radical ideas and radical ideology are driving terrorism. It's not coincidental that all terrorists are Muslim. President Bush needs to say it.

The United States can't wage war against an unknown force. Bush needs to say the war is against radical Islam. And expalin what radical Islam is - then, and only then, should he assure Americans that almost all American Muslims are treasured fellow citizens, not terrorists. Then he can call on understanding and tolerance. But not before. Not before he tells the hard truth - the un-PC truth.

Calling Islam a religion of peace before warning people about it's dangers is silly.

111 posted on 11/19/2006 8:21:56 PM PST by GOPJ (The MSM's so busy kissing dem butt they can't see straight- come up for air guys.)
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To: Tom D.

Indeed, if they want conservatives to vote a Republican ticket, then of course the Republicans must preform as conservatives, not liberals in drag.


112 posted on 11/19/2006 10:45:40 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: speekinout

Bush is a pragmatist who cares most about winning. Reagan was an idealist who was willing to be pragmatic.

Reagan took his own life and his family's life in his hands when he battled the Hollywood Communists who tried to run the Screen Actors' Guild. We now have a huge archive of what Reagan thought and wrote in his early days, long before he entered politics.

W. is not much of a thinker. He is much smarter than the Democrats allow, but he is a poor communicator, worse than his father. My biggest complaint is that he ran as conservative, like his father, and governed as a Democrat, like his father, trying to please the enemy while spiting his supporters.

Bush 1 used to say, "If you're so smart, why aren't you president?" That is typical Bush arrogance and explains why both failed as leaders.


113 posted on 11/20/2006 3:43:02 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: Tom D.
The story of the Western world since 1945 is that, invited to choose between freedom and government "security," large numbers of people vote to dump freedom -- the freedom to make your own decisions about health care, education, property rights, seat belts and a ton of other stuff. I would welcome the president using "Freedom is the desire of every human heart" in Chicago and Dallas, and, if it catches on there, then applying it to Ramadi and Tikrit.

Not to nitpick about the virtues of the nanny state, but I think the point of what politicos call "freedom" is the freedom to choose. And so when ppl choose nanny state regs, they are indeed giving over personal freedom to gubmint, but politically, they are doing so freely, as part of an interactive system. In a dictatorship, the ppl have no say.

114 posted on 11/20/2006 5:49:31 AM PST by Huck (Soylent Green is People.)
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To: livius

If they would be slaves, then their is no way I can stop them from that. The best thing to so in this case is do something to stop our dependence on Middle Eastern black gold.


115 posted on 11/20/2006 1:57:18 PM PST by Hawk1976 (And for my next trick I will use splel chuck.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
shouldn't have to

Do we really have to list all the things that shouldn't be, but are, and we must learn to live with them and overcome them, and that's part of being an adult?

116 posted on 11/20/2006 2:21:24 PM PST by ExGeeEye (Day 186 (counting up))
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To: Hawk1976

I agree that cutting loose from oil is crucial to all this, but nobody seems to be dealing with that and I don't know what it will take. I honestly think people believe this is just a temporary glitch, and things will all settle down and go back to humming along again...nobody is treating anything at all very seriously.


117 posted on 11/20/2006 2:43:19 PM PST by livius
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To: sine_nomine
Bush is a pragmatist who cares most about winning.

That is really a misguided assessment. He's shown on many occasions that he is willing to risk his popularity and "winning" for what he thinks is right. He tried for SS reform - long considered the "third rail" of politics, because he knows we have to do it. He's stuck by his Constructionist nominees for the Courts (unlike Reagan who compromised on Sandra Day O'Connor). And he's still fighting to make his tax cuts permanent.
Those are all good Conservative positions. And if he manages all 3, he'd have to be considered as extremely successful.

You're right, he's not a good communicator - at least in front of a camera. People who have been in personal meetings give him rave reviews for those sessions though.

118 posted on 11/20/2006 5:12:31 PM PST by speekinout
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To: Tom D.
There is a huge gulf between these two forces, to the point where the War Party and the Small Government Party seem as mutually hostile as the Sunni and Shia on their worst days. If the Republicans can't reunite these two wings before 2008, they'll lose again and keep on losing.

2008 Bump. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

119 posted on 10/04/2008 12:09:29 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Throw the bums out who vote yes on the bail out)
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