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The “Pendleton ‘8’ K/3/5 – Hamdaniya” The Death of the Marine Corps?
One Old Marine | 07/26/2006 | RaceBannon

Posted on 07/26/2006 5:07:35 PM PDT by RaceBannon

The Death of the Marine Corps. Is it the Old Corps anymore? Is our Corps dead now?

Where is the Semper Fidelis that we were taught to uphold and believe in?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: accused; corps; haditha; hamandiya; hamdania; hamdaniya; iraq; marine; marines; murder; navy; pendleton8
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The Death of the Marine Corps

Going Where They Are

Imagine for a moment that you are a member of perhaps the proudest group of warriors the world has ever seen; a “band of brothers” that embodies the seemingly long-forgotten traits of honor, duty, and country. Every line of your uniform, from its gold buttons to the blood-red stripe down the pants leg, was earned in blood; each part of it was born in your history. Every time you put it on, you are reminded of those who have come before you, those who have made your heritage what it is. Your brotherhood, this nearly mythical bond, is signified by two words that somehow encompass everything you stand for. They are not just words, however, but a promise, a solemn commitment that will be kept even if it means you will die keeping it. Semper Fidelis: always faithful.

By your hand and the hand of your brothers-in-arms, the freedom of the United States of America stands. Your brothers have fought on every continent for over two hundred years, with a resolute courage and ferocity so incredible that even your enemies called you teufelhunden–devil dogs. There is not a better fighting force anywhere in the world, and being a part of it is the proudest thing you will ever accomplish.

You were sent to a faraway country, just like so many before you, and you did your duty the best you knew how. You sweated throughout the days and froze during the nights, sleeping in tents that were no protection against the mortars that deafened your ears and inched ever closer during the few moments of sleep you were allowed. You held the bloody hands of your friends as they died in front of you, some of them calling for their mothers, others whispering the bittersweet “Tell my wife…” Some of them didn’t say anything at all, instead gurgling through their own blood as they died. Semper Fidelis.

You went without food, without sleep, without basic things like clean clothes and a shower. Through it all, you somehow managed to hang on to your sanity in a place where a lie is as commonplace as the truth, and the enemy just might be a 7-year-old child on the side of the road, smiling at you and asking for candy only so you will get close enough to him to be killed by the explosives he carries. No matter what the climate, the terror, the smells of blood and death or your buddy’s guts that spilled out in front of him, you press on, determined to complete the mission. Many of your brothers have come back again and again to this place, unwilling to sit in a recliner in their living room and watch TV while you try to wipe the blood from your uniform and catch a few minutes of sleep before the next mission. No matter what the cost, you are all willing to pay it. Semper Fidelis.

Now imagine that you are sitting in an 8×8 cell, as are seven of your brothers, waiting to find out if your promise to remain faithful will in fact result in your death–not in a hail of enemy fire, not in the blinding explosion of a terrorist’s bomb, but by the sterile needle of a lethal injection, administered by the very country you spent your adult life defending. You have been shackled, wearing a label that says “PVD”: potentially violent and dangerous. You have been here for over a month now, in solitary confinement for almost 24 hours a day, with nothing to do but pray that someone stands up for you, just as you did for them.

But hope is dwindling. Your military attorneys don’t have time to help you, and your civilian attorneys are being denied access to evidence that would prove you’re innocent–no autopsy of the man they say you murdered in cold blood, no witnesses, nothing. In fact, you’ve just been told that you may be tried without ever facing your accusers in court–accusers who already have given conflicting stories and dishonest statements. Your life hangs in the balance, but the chances here are even worse than they were in Iraq. There is a very good chance that you will die, convicted of a crime you did not commit, betrayed by the very country you defend.

But this is just a story. This never actually happened, right?

Wrong. It’s happening right now. At the moment I write this, eight men sit in solitary confinement, charged with crimes that never happened. Their case is explosive, their story heartbreaking. I don’t believe any American, after hearing the facts of this case, can call it anything but a travesty of justice that may not only kill eight innocent men, but the idea of the United States Marine Corps as an honorable institution. I hope you read this series, yes. But I challenge you to act upon it.

The Innocent 8 fulfilled their vow. Now it is our turn. Semper Fidelis.

Note: The Innocent 8 – seven Marines and a Navy corpsman who are being held on charges of kidnapping and murder - are facing the death penalty, and are being denied due process and the right to a defense.

Birth of the Accusations

It began on 26 April, in Hamdaniya, Iraq. Seven Marines and their Navy Corpsman, from Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment shot and killed an insurgent. Just another day, just another insurgent in this dirty, dusty land where almost everyone–even children–can smile at you one moment and kill you the next.

But this would not be just another insurgent, and the events of 26 April will be dissected over and over in the coming weeks. The report the Marines filed after the action said that Awad was “digging on the side of the road from our ambush site. I made the call and engaged. He was pronounced dead at the scene with only a shovel and AK-47.” Just another day.

Yet a few months later, the eight men are fighting for their lives in a whole new arena: the courtroom. With an Article 32 scheduled next month and most assuredly a trial after that, the Marines and Navy corpsman are accused of decidedly more than just engaging the enemy.

The charge sheets for the eight men claim a host of infractions: Murder, larceny, assault, housebreaking, kidnapping, false official statements, and obstruction of justice.

The Marine Corps says these men were looking for a certain insurgent but couldn’t find him, and so they broke into Hashim Ibrahim Awad’s house, dragged him outside, tied him up and put him on his knees, and then shot him 4 times.

There are some basic problems with the case. Dan Riehl has done some excellent research as to the conflicting statements by “witnesses.”

He found that in almost every facet of the story, there are discrepancies, none of which are being mentioned by the media. In fact, in an apparent failure to communicate with each other (and fact check), “both Knight Ridder and the WaPo state the accounts cannot be independently confirmed.”

[Speaking of that Knight-Ridder account, the entire article was reported on by a “special correspondent who could not be named for security reasons…” To give you an idea of what the Washington Post’s article was like, just read these quick paragraphs on why they don’t like to call Zarqawi a terrorist.]

Riehl goes on:

It is fair to conclude that the media is putting out information which has, by its own admission, not been confirmed. And the Bush administration is now extremely sensitive to these types of charges. It’s also fair to wonder if some of our enemies haven’t figured that out and are becoming increasingly proficient at circulating precisely the types of stories the MSM loves to seek out.

The Marine Corps, in choosing to prosecute these men, has decided to accept the word of Iraqis who were connected with the insurgency as opposed to their own Marines. This is and of itself is a tragedy. But why were these men charged?

Many people, including this columnist, somehow labor under the erroneous assumption that we as citizens are “owed” an investigation on this incident. It becomes a very dangerous situation when terrorists are made privy to this fact. How many inquiries were done into “atrocities” committed in World War 2? It was simply understood that war was a dirty job, someone had to do it, and thank God for the men who were willing to step up and go.

What happens when we are pounded with the idea that the military is a group of paid assassins, fighting an “illegal and immoral” war for capitalist fiends? Where do we end up when we start down the road of demanding investigations into killing of the enemy and calling normal wartime occurrences “atrocities?”

You may not even want to know the answer. But it is there, diabolically threatening everything that our country is founded on–and everything the Marine Corps claims to believe in.

The question of why they are even being investigated is a valid one, to be sure. But at this point, the more dangerous question is, why is the Marine Corps denying them due process and the right to a competent defense? And what does this mean for the rest of those who are defending our safety?

Denial of Honor Eight men stand charged in the death of an insurgent in Hamdaniya, Iraq. His family claims he was a harmless old, disabled man who refused to become an informant for the Americans. Considering the lack of value placed on truth in Iraqi culture, and the fact that the family stood to gain $2500 in American dollars if they claimed their relative was a noncombatant, a logical person would have a hard time believing the disjointed, conflicting statements by various members of the family.

More shocking than even the accusations themselves is the way in which this case has been handled by the Marine Corps. The timeline of events points to something even more insidious than a cover-up; it shows a blatant disregard for the lives of eight men who voluntarily gave of themselves for their country, and a willingness to allow the anti-American Left to dictate how we fight the war in Iraq, even at the expense of the troops they so vehemently claim to support.

What does it mean to say that the Marine Corps has mishandled this case? Judge for yourself if this adheres to the Constitutional protections afforded a suspect in a crime.

• These proud Marines and corpsman were taken from a combat situation and questioned for hours in Iraq–in at least one case, seven hours–without food, water, or even a bathroom break.

• Marines returning home from redeployment must go through a COSC Redeployment Checklist that attempts to prepare them for “re-entry” into the life they left behind. They are given a Marine Redeployment and Reunion Guide that helps to explain some of the changes that may have occurred in their absence, and offers resources for coping with some of what can affect them emotionally when they return. These men were taken straight from combat into interrogation with no transition, no resources, nothing.

• They were told that they could ask for a lawyer, but that it “would be the biggest mistake of their lives.”

• The interrogations were not recorded in any way.

• They were shipped home and immediately incarcerated in solitary confinement, complete with connected leg and wrist shackles that a guard held when they went anywhere. They were not allowed a pen or paper, or even a toothbrush. Keep in mind that at this point, they had not been charged with any crime. Their shackles were recently removed, and they are now allowed to eat their meals with the other Marines. They also received access to a toothbrush, weeks after being initially confined.

• The Marine Corps claims that the shackles were consistent with pre-trial confinement, but there are no other cases where the accused are confined in this manner. In fact, the Marines that were involved in the Haditha incident, trumpeted by the media as the new My Lai, are not confined at all. One of them just received a promotion.

• The Corps has assigned each man two military attorneys; however, none of them have been able to do any work on the case. For three weeks the defense was completely stalled since all requests had to go through military defense counsel and the defense counsel were not available. One was moving to California from North Carolina, one was coming off reserve status, and some of them were already working 30 other cases.

Most people would be incensed by now. The above would never be accepted in a civilian court. Cases have been thrown out for much less.

But it gets worse. Much, much worse.

• The Marine Corps has denied the defense request that they be allowed to go to Iraq and interview potential witnesses and other involved parties. The prosecution claims that after the Article 32, they will decide whether a trip to Iraq is warranted, and may or may not allow the defense to go. This means that the defense will not be allowed to view the alleged crime scene; they will also not be able to talk to anyone that the NCIS may have overlooked.

• The defense has not been given access to the body to have an autopsy performed. The preliminary report showed that there was no evidence of a permanent disability or that the man was even bound by his hands and feet as the prosecution claims, but the prosecution has refused to give the defense the alleged full autopsy report–and it is not even certain that there is a full autopsy in existence. The body was brought to Dover AFB for a full postmortem, and then shipped back to Iraq and reburied without the defense being allowed near it. Something else that is noteworthy here is that one of those “anonymous officials” leaked that “Forensic investigators are ‘going to fast track’ their analysis in an effort to wrap up the case…”

Apparently “fast-tracking” means not giving these eight men a fair trial.

• The prosecution has denied the defense’s request for all supporting evidence: the alleged full autopsy, forensic evidence, trajectory reports, and ballistic report. They claim that the evidence is “not complete.” If the evidence isn’t complete, wasn’t it premature to hold these men in shackles for three weeks before charging them? And how can you charge 8 men with murder without a complete autopsy and forensic evidence reports?

• Not only can the defense team not go to Iraq to talk to witnesses, there is “no assurance” that these accusers are going to be present at the Article 32–or the trial itself. Marine Corps Spokesman Sean Gibson says, “There is no mechanism in place to compel them to testify.”

This means that eight Americans could very easily be convicted of murder and be executed without ever facing their accusers, which is a basic right afforded to them under the Constitution.

Are you angry yet? You should be. The Marine Corps is blatantly violating nearly every right these men have in their rush to appease the bloodthirsty Left.

Perhaps most disgusting is their recent spending for a media center that will allow for a large number of journalists sharks to come watch their show trial. They can afford that, and yet can’t seem to free up military attorneys or resources to ensure their own men get a fair trial.

An interesting side note here is that not one human rights group has contacted any of the families. Neither has the ACLU. Apparently rights only apply to illegal immigrants, terrorists, and pedophiles.

This case is beyond a travesty, and many of us are left wondering what we can do to help. There is a great deal we can do, and in my final chapter I’ll give you some ideas.

These men don’t owe us anything. They don’t owe us an explanation or an apology. We don’t “need an investigation.” We owe them–a debt we will never in all our lives be willing to pay back. The least we can do is stand up for them now. If we don’t, there is no telling how far the slope will go.

A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his Country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. - Teddy Roosevelt

To Stand The story of the Innocent 8 is one that many people don’t even know. People tend to know bits and pieces, or they’re not aware of the full ramifications of the situation. The truth is that this case affects us all, for it signifies a new low in our nation.

When those who defend our freedoms are not even given the benefit of the rights we all enjoy, then there has been a failure in our justice system; a failure so completely basic that many may ignore it.

They assume it can’t happen here. This is the United States of America, a place where pedophiles have the ACLU to defend their “rights” and terrorists in Gitmo are given Geneva Convention protections. It is unfathomable that American citizens would be treated worse than those who have conspired to kill us.

The even sadder part of this is that many of us are forced into a position where we have to condemn an institution that we love and support. The Marine Corps is an icon of the United States; it has given birth to many generations of proud warriors who have kept us free. It could have just as easily been anyone’s husband, son or brother sitting in a cell at Camp Pendleton, falsely accused.

The cold knowledge that some of the Marines who wear the uniform of a devil dog are actually spineless and political and willing to sacrifice their own men to score political points is anathema; it is nauseating and heartbreaking.

But here we are, just the same, and unless we do something eight men stand to lose their lives for no other reason than the Marine Corps feels as though it needs to kowtow to the same people who would call them “paid assassins.” In all honesty, regardless of our best efforts, these men may die anyway. That fact should not stop us from acting; to the contrary, it should spur us to greater fortitude. One does not stop fighting because the fight may be lost.

So what can we do to stop this machine from crushing the Innocent 8?

• Call your Congressmen and Senators. Start with the Armed Services Committee (the HASC is here). This is perhaps the most important. Email them. Fax them. Tell them that you demand an independent congressional hearing into the rights violations that the Innocent 8 are being subjected to. The men did not give up their Constitutional rights when they raised their right hands, and even the UCMJ has provisions built into it to give accused service members basic rights during an investigation, Article 32, and subsequent court-martial. These rights are being ignored.

• Tell your family and friends about the case. I cannot stress this enough. Inform people. Let them know. Talk about it. Post the story on your websites, or send it out to your email list. If you can send forwards about flowers and hugs and an occasional warning about kidnappers, then you can send this. This is a life or death fight, and it affects you.

• Talk to the media. Little towns all over America have local papers. The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post are beyond help, but there are hundreds of thousands of publications in this country, many of them run by good, American citizens who love their country and would be amazed and appalled to see the treatment these men are receiving. Submit letters to the editor. Write a guest column. Start a blog. Something.

• Organize a rally. Even a few people can make a difference. There have been rallies held outside Camp Pendleton for the last six weeks, every Saturday.

• Call into talk radio shows. Rush, Hannity, Beck, all of them. Call in, email them. Talk to them about this. Make sure they cover it.

Those are some of the things we can do to help their case on a grand scale. But what can we do for these men personally?

• Send them letters. One of the things that lifts their spirits more than anything while confined in the brig is to hear from Americans who believe in them, who honor them and pray for them and support them. It costs a few cents to send a letter and it means the world to them. Please, if you do nothing else, do this.

• Contribute to their defense fund. Civilian attorneys, even at discounted rates, cost money. Experts cost money. These men are literally fighting for their lives, and can use everything you can possibly give. Their families are cleaning out retirement funds, refinancing homes, and doing everything they possibly can to scrape enough money so their sons and husbands get a fair trial, but this dog-and-pony show looks like it will go on a while. Go to The Warrior Fund and donate today!

(www.Warrior-Fund.org)

• Send them books. What if you were in an 8×8 cell for 23 hours a day and were innocent? Sending these guys things to read can at the very least keep time moving for them. PFC John Jodka likes conservative political books, like Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity. He just finished reading Ilario Pantano’s Warlord. Keep in mind that if you do send books, they need to come directly from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc., so you’ll need to send them as a gift. They can share books, as well, so sending one of them a book means that the other men will probably be able to read it as well.

The Innocent 8, at this moment while you read this, are sitting in cells about the same size as your bathroom. They have been there for weeks with no recourse, no way to fight for themselves, no way to defend themselves against these charges.

They have stood for us. We owe it to them to stand now. The fight is uphill, and there are those who will not listen.

Many people want to see the United States fail as a country, and would even like to see these Marines die. But we know in our hearts what the difference is between right and wrong, and we sit here today because of men like them.

I challenge you to stand up for the rights we enjoy. I implore you to stand for these men. I ask you to do what is right. Demand an independent Congressional hearing into the Hamdaniya 8.

If we don’t, and these men are found guilty, the Marine Corps will no longer be an institution of honor, of duty and devotion to Country. It will simply be a long-forgotten ideal, a reminder of the past greatness of our nation.

A defeat in the courtroom for the Pendleton 8 means a defeat for our country in the War on Terror.

The enemy already uses our media, and to know that they can succeed in killing Marines simply by making up stories about them…if this case ends in a conviction, then we have already lost.

Read this article again, carefully. There IS NO EVIDENCE!

Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking. - Ferdinand Foch, at the Battle of the Marne, 1918

Write to them at: Insert their name(s) in the brackets: [ ] Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base (Brig) Camp Pendleton, CA 92055

These men are: SGT Lawrence G. Hutchins III CPL Marshall L. Magincalda CPL Trent Thomas LCPL Tyler A. Jackson LCPL Robert B. Pennington LCPL Jerry A. Shumate Jr HN3 Melson J. Bacos PFC John J. Jodka III

1 posted on 07/26/2006 5:07:40 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: RaceBannon; LadyX; marine86297; kellynla; tet68; MudPuppy; A.A. Cunningham; Lancey Howard; ...

This is a must read


2 posted on 07/26/2006 5:08:44 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon

The last great general of "my" Corps was Alfred M. Gray. Since then, a bunch of azzhats taking over the helm.

Semper Fidelis from a retired master sergeant of Marines.


3 posted on 07/26/2006 5:12:38 PM PDT by fontman
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To: fontman

From another old Marine, to the SMaj of the USMC:

SgtMajor John L. Estrada USMC
SgtMajor of the Marine Corps
Headquarters U.S. Marine Corps
Washington, DC 20380-1775

Dear SgtMajor,

I normally don’t write this type of letter, but Being Vietnam Era Former Marine Staff Sergeant I can not sit by and let happen what is happening at Camp Pendleton without saying something.

I am no Hero, I have no awards for bravery. I am just an old SNCO who took an unofficial oath to do all I could to protect the junior enlisted under my command. My claim to fame for my service in Vietnam is that I did all possible to bring them back alive. Sometimes I failed and that still stays with me.

My point, Sir, is that all SNCO’s are supposed to be doing this. I laid my stripes on the line a few times to protect my troops and feel it is all our duties to do this. The higher the rank, the more responsibility. You Sir have the ultimate responsibility. You are the last line of defense for the enlisted Marines.

There are a group of Marines, and I include the Corpsman because he is as much a Marine as the rest, being held in solitary confinement in the brig without any formal charges being made. They are being questioned under conditions by the NCIS that would be condemned by all, if done to the people we are holding in Cuba.. These men have already been condemned by members of Congress, Murtha, and the press as well as a lot of liberal professors on our college campuses. Their ONLY comfort is in the fact that “The Corps takes care of its own”. What kind of message is being sent by their treatment? They have already been convicted by Murtha and the press and it appears that the Corps, through its treatment, has done the same.

I understand when the Commandant visited Pendleton recently their unit was told NOT to muster with the rest because there was a fear of an “Incident”. SgtMaj, these are Marines. Do we have that little faith in their training that we have to do this? SgtMaj. You may have forgotten, but the enlisted Marines have an underground communications system second only to that of the Okinawan bar girls and you can be sure that this is being passed around. Can we really afford to lose any warriors because we do not stand up for them?

During the Vietnam War, an Army Lt, Lt Calley was accused of murdering an entire village but was held at House Arrest not solitary confinement in the brig. Do our young Marines not deserve the same consideration and treatment? If they are guilty they should be held to a high standard and the punishment more severe because they are Marines and expected to act better. But they have not been found guilty nor have they been formally charged or court-martialed and deserve the same treatment as accused murders, rapists and whatever.

I can’t do anything about this, but SgtMaj as senior enlisted you can. Why is there no report of you doing so. Have we become so Politically Correct that we abandon our young Marines? What kind of message does this send to these young warriors the Corps so desperately needs to see how fellow warriors are treated for something not yet proven.


If this letter is unfair to you and the Commandant and I have erred in my judgment, I apologize, if not then SgtMaj you need to rethink about the traditions and roots you come from and either do something to aid these young men or offer your retirement to the Commandant and let someone who is willing to “Step forward and place themselves in front of the troops” and fulfill one of the most important functions of a SNCO - Protect the enlisted Marines.

Respectfully and Semper Fi

Xxxx X. XXxxxxxx
SSGT USMC(Fmr)


4 posted on 07/26/2006 5:17:03 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon; All


Help the 'Pendleton 8' and their families.

The 'Pendleton 8': A look at the 7 Marines and Navy corpsman charged in Hamdania incident
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1670877/posts


VIDEO-Camp Pendleton demonstration for Marines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1655852/posts


Marine families wait and worry; (Frustrations, anger expressed by relatives of Pendleton 8)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1671948/posts


-0-

Accused troops' supporters busy fundraising - Hamdaniya / 'Pendleton 8' defense funds ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1654104/posts


Dozens rally at Camp Pendleton gates(24 June 2006) ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1655341/posts


Military justice under spotlight in Hamdania case - 'Pendleton 8' - 7 Marines, 1 Navy Corpsman ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1655333/posts


Lawyers for Marines, medic plan counterattack in Iraq murder case - Hamdaniya - 'Pendleton 8' ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1656712/posts


FREE REPUBLIC EXCLUSIVE: DIRECT INFORMATION ON THE 7 MARINES AND SAILOR HELD FOR MURDER
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1659084/posts


Defending the accused: Many attorneys in Hamdania case practiced law .. in military - 'Pendleton 8'
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1659351/posts


Letter reportedly from accused servicemen expresses thanks(Camp Pendleton 8)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1660140/posts


Delay is likely for (Camp)Pendleton(8) hearings
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1668925/posts


Attorneys for accused troops say Marine Corps hampering defenses
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1669976/posts


-0-

Some of the familes and supporters of the 7 Hamdaniya Marines & a Navy Corpsman, now charged with multiple criminal offenses, have setup web sites for use in accepting donations for legal defense funds or sending notes of encouragement and support to the detainees and their families.

Cpl. Robert Pennington
http://www.defendrob.com


PFC John Jodka
http://www.innocentmarine.com


Tyler Jackson
http://www.fightingfortyler.com


Cpl. Marshall Magincalda
http://www.defendourmarine.com


Cpl. Trent Thomas
http://www.defensefundformyhero.com


Lance Cpl Jerry Shumate
http://friendsofjerry.blogspot.com/


Hospital Corpsman Third Class Melson J. Bacos
http://patriotdefensefund.com/



Other sites supporting the men:

http://www.defendthetruth.com

http://www.warrior-fund.org

If your financial situation permits, please help as you can to defer legal representation costs.

Thanks!

5 posted on 07/26/2006 5:21:54 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
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To: NormsRevenge
1st MAW BumP
6 posted on 07/26/2006 5:23:25 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
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To: RaceBannon

Savage has been all over this ,, it is more than a disgrace and it will get many more of our men killed, George W. or Rummy should step in and summarily dismiss the charges and put the traitorous ivy league lawyers and the "journalists" on notice. What would have been said if they were on a Pacific beach watching our men clean out caves and tunnels... This is a war and the only thing arabs understand is force. We should have been less surgical in our entry into Iraq.


7 posted on 07/26/2006 5:25:47 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: RaceBannon
Let us continue to hope that the good Lord has a plan worked out where these Marines and the Navy Corpsmen shall walk out of that prison, free from all charges, and restored to their honorable positions respectively. The point this fiasco has reached is literally beyond belief. How can the Corps. turn it back on it's own. I have not served in the Marine Corps.. Yet it is so fundlemental in my mind. Semper Fi, is being VIOLATED IN A MOST HORRIBLE FORM.
The Marine Corps. is not going to change it's proud traditions and honorable ways, due to this horrible treatment of a few of it's own (and I do not refere to the Marines charged in this case). But surely this is effecting many a Marine that currently must serve in harms way.
What are they to think, if they to find themselves caught in some weird situation that they had little or no control over.
8 posted on 07/26/2006 5:33:01 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: RaceBannon

RaceBannon,

I got your comments in an email this a.m.

A small world, eh?

Semper Fidelis My Brother,
Mark


9 posted on 07/26/2006 5:36:27 PM PDT by fontman
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To: RaceBannon

Until the A32 is over and charges have been preferred then the men are merely suspects. If and when the Marines in question are in fact charged then a full defense will be allowed, including the opportunity to search out exculpatory evidence. The fact that they know they are under investigation and are allowed to participate and offer some measure of defense before charges are formalized makes one statement very clear and correct:
This would never be allowed to happen in a civilian court.

To claim that these men are being railroaded when charges are not yet preferred tells me that the author either (1) has less knowledge of military law than they seem to claim, or (2) that they have already chosen sides when the facts are not yet in, and this is nothing more than a piece of propoganda, or both.

You state 'Read the Article, there is no evidence.' I say wait for the Article 32 to be published, wait to see if charges are even preferred, and then make a determination about the 'evidence' - because that is exactly what the GCCA will be doing.


10 posted on 07/26/2006 5:37:06 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: BlueNgold

Well put.


11 posted on 07/26/2006 5:41:21 PM PDT by Captain Rhino ( Dollars spent in India help a friend; dollars spent in China arm an enemy.)
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To: fontman

I'm a plagerist, these aint my words. :)


12 posted on 07/26/2006 5:42:38 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: BlueNgold

The person who wrote this is involved in the defense of the Pendleton 8.

His name was kept out to keep his anonymity.

I cant say more.


13 posted on 07/26/2006 5:47:45 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon

Moot point.

I've passed this on to one of my Marine brothers, a colonel of Marines who has a 2,000-plus daily email list.

Hopefully, some of the generals who are "supposed to be running OUR Corps will see same.

We shall see.

BTW, current SgtMaj of our Corps is a douchebag, as well.

;)


14 posted on 07/26/2006 5:54:38 PM PDT by fontman
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To: fontman

Not so moot when you are one of the "Inside Men"


15 posted on 07/26/2006 5:58:48 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: fontman
The last great general of "my" Corps was Alfred M. Gray. Since then, a bunch of azzhats taking over the helm.

I didn't think much of "PX Hero" either but the corps persevered.

Survive, adapt, and overcome. It isn't the top brass who make the corps what it is. Although good command really improves things.

16 posted on 07/26/2006 6:15:21 PM PDT by MrEdd (Bad spellers of the world - UNTIE!,)
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To: RaceBannon

Everytime I calm down.....you ping me and remind me why I shouldn't be...

Something REALLY stinks about this mess..
It just doesn't jive with how I remember MY Marine Corps...

Semper Fi


17 posted on 07/26/2006 6:17:23 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: river rat

Someone is zoomin someone, and I hope it is all just a CYA which will be resolved with promotions following for these men.


18 posted on 07/26/2006 6:19:40 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty: The Pendleton 8)
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To: RaceBannon

BTTT!


19 posted on 07/26/2006 6:33:56 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: RaceBannon

I stand at attention as I bump this thread.

PC is killing our America!


20 posted on 07/26/2006 6:40:20 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Illegal immigration Control and US Border Security - The jobs George W. Bush refuses to do.)
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