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I Need help with the topic of oil being switched to euros.... (Vanity)
Albert

Posted on 02/25/2006 1:55:39 AM PST by albyjimc2

I was hoping someone with a firm grasp on economics could help me with a lack of knowledge on the subject of selling oil in dollars to euros. Is this certain to happen and what would the reason be? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bourse; dollar; euro; help; iran; oil
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1 posted on 02/25/2006 1:55:41 AM PST by albyjimc2
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To: albyjimc2

reasons would be 2 major ones
1) fiscal & trade policies of the US erode confidence in the dollar as a reserve currency.
2) political, some countries (iran, Venezuela) want to do it just because of who the currency is issued by.


2 posted on 02/25/2006 2:01:02 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: albyjimc2

ON THE NET...

http://www.google.com


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22oil+in+euros%22&btnG=Google+Search

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=%22oil+in+Euros%22&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d


3 posted on 02/25/2006 2:01:59 AM PST by Cindy
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To: albyjimc2

Pray that it doesnt happen, for it is does, the worlds economy will tank like never before. This issue alone is worth going to war with iran over.


4 posted on 02/25/2006 2:17:26 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: albyjimc2

http://www.antimullah.com/

The author of this blog is the first person I read on the subject.

It is not a sure thing, but Iran is pushing it. So was Saddam. Some believe it was the final straw in deciding to invade to ensure the Dollar was prominent in the world economy.


5 posted on 02/25/2006 2:31:31 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: FARS

fyi


6 posted on 02/25/2006 2:34:27 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: albyjimc2

The reasons to switch to Euros are purely political. The future of that currency whether it is used for oil trading or not is not bright, and its history not long.


7 posted on 02/25/2006 3:00:08 AM PST by thoughtomator (I understand Democrats' impatience; If Kerry were President, Iran would have nuked Israel by now)
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To: albyjimc2
One thing to keep in mind is that short term Euro deposits only yield 2.25% at the moment vs. 4.50% for USD. This is a potent force in favor of the dollar in the short run.

Let's say that I am a holder of dollars and I want to buy a barrel of crude for delivery one month from now. I have a choice of contracting with a seller in New York, denominated in Dollars, or a seller in Caracas, denominated in Euro. Let's say that the crude is going to be delivered to Houston, TX in either case.

I check the price of crude in each market. The price on the Caracas exchange is the same as the price on the New York exchange, times the current dollar to Euro exchange rate, say 1.19. I decide to buy the Euro denominated contract.

My motivation is that I worship Castro, while despising George Bush, mom, apple pie, nachos, pizza and everything else American. Therefore, I want to lose my Dollars as soon as possible. I feel that the Dollar can only depreciate vs. the Euro since the USA has no future.

So I immediately sell my dollars and buy Euros in the form of a 1 month CD that will mature when I am ready to pay for my oil, earning interest in the meantime. There's only one problem. As mentioned above, I'm only earning 2.25% on my Euro CD vs. the 4.50% I could earn on my Dollar one. This has the effect of making the Euro denominated oil more expensive than the Dollar denominated oil.

To compensate me, the seller of oil in Caracas will have to price his forward contracts lower (when converted at the spot EUR/USD rate) than the seller in New York.

If the European Central Bank were to raise rates above those of the US Federal Reserve board, the situation would reverse itself. However there is no sign that they will do so any time soon since the US economy is comparatively stronger (less slack) than the European one at the moment.
8 posted on 02/25/2006 3:35:16 AM PST by hedgie
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To: thoughtomator

With European countries considering the abandonment of the Euro and a return to their sovreign curencies, trading in Euros is not a great idea unless you are going short.


9 posted on 02/25/2006 3:39:47 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: son of caesar
Pray that it doesnt happen, for it is does, the worlds economy will tank like never before.

Oh, horse-fudge. FUD hawking and nothing more.

10 posted on 02/25/2006 3:57:35 AM PST by John Valentine
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To: son of caesar

The mother of all tanks? Sorry! I couldn't resist..

A lot depends on how swift or gradual it were. If it were swift, it would be very ugly for everyone involved, which is why it won't be. The Europeans don't want it to be swift any more than anyone else.

Now, if it were gradual, that's a whole nother matter. The most plausible scenario I think for a transition would be using both for a time, with a steady switch over to euros. In that case, the biggest *long term* effect would be that the United States would need to seriously reduce its deficit spending. In short, it would become a more 'ordinary' economy.

There would be other effects too, but that would be the most crucial. It's worth keeping in mind that Japan and Europe have highly developed economies without the support of the oil dollar benchmark.


11 posted on 02/25/2006 4:03:07 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Here in reality, while there is considerable grumbling about aspects of the euro transition, there is no European country that is even remotely considering the abandonment of the euro in any serious way whatsoever.


12 posted on 02/25/2006 4:04:23 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: AntiGuv

Italy


13 posted on 02/25/2006 4:35:48 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: John Valentine

Oh horse fudge huh? Let me see, there is how many trillions of dollars floating around the globe? I mean not in the USA. Now tell me what happens to those dollars when they are no longer needed? Yes, thats right, they return to the USA, dont they? You can figure out the rest, or maybe you cant, i dunno.


14 posted on 02/25/2006 4:36:28 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: AntiGuv

Reducing the deficet would of course have to be done. Now just imagine the USA with no deficet? Just imagine what crashing the USA economy would do to all of the worlds economies? Not a pretty sight at all. On a side note, who would buy all that chinese garbage?


15 posted on 02/25/2006 4:38:28 AM PST by son of caesar
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To: AntiGuv

"Here in reality, while there is considerable grumbling about aspects of the euro transition, there is no European country that is even remotely considering the abandonment of the euro in any serious way whatsoever"

There's also no serious move to transition to petroeuros aside from in a handful of nations whose move would do little to impact the dollar's position as a reserve currency.

As for Caesar's comments, we've been over this topic repeatedly in the past, but it doesn't seem to dissuade people from making the same arguments over, and over, and over, regardless of the facts. Economics is a topic rife with ignorance in mainstream discussion, and people play off that ignorance for their own political gain.


16 posted on 02/25/2006 4:45:25 AM PST by Sandreckoner
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To: Jimmy Valentine

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, in Italy there was one minister from one of the junior partners in the coalition (the Northern League iirc) that talked about it. That is not a serious move to revert to the lira.


17 posted on 02/25/2006 5:02:06 AM PST by AntiGuv
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To: albyjimc2

Have you checked the current state of being of the EU economy. Rush says that "OUR" First Quarter GDP estimates have the 2006 1st quarter coming in with growth higher that 6%. Second quarter estimates are even higher. The dollar is steadily gaining on the euro, and if these figures hold up, two things are certain:

1) euro's will not be replacing Dollars
2) the dims lies about our economy will be put to death once and for all.
2a) willie green will be sad... very sad!


18 posted on 02/25/2006 5:06:30 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (Preserve America... kill terrorists... destroy dims!)
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To: son of caesar
Now tell me what happens to those dollars when they are no longer needed? Yes, thats right, they return to the USA, dont they?

This is a GROSS oversimplification, and assumes so much that has nowhere been in evidence.

First of all, who says that these dollars are "no longer needed". They are needed everywhere, and for hundreds of thousands of international transactions aevery day that demand liquidity and stability. Can another currency serve as well? many can. If you recall, there was a time that the Swiss Franc was the alternative international currency of choice. So, now its the Euro. Big deal. Dollars aren't going to going out of favor any time soon.

And what if they do go out of favor? "The dollars are going to come home!" This has been the twig shaken at the elephant for the past fifty years. All those dollars stuck in matteress all over eastern Europe were going to come out and come home. Petro-dollars, Euro-dollars, you name it, they were all at one time or another going to "come home", to the FUD of all the clacking chickens. Well, they aren't coming home for free, that's for sure. The only way they are coming home is if people want to sell them for some other currency. As this happens, the value of the Dollar will indeed decline - wor a while. This has already happened, making the US Dollar the best monetary buy in the world. Far from fearing a Dollar decline, I expect a long term appreciation of the greenback over the next two to three years. We'll see the Euro back beneath parity so soon you'll be amazed. The covers of Newsweek and time will feature the dollar sign and trumpet "The Rise of the Greenback"! Meanwhile, watch what happens to those countries that experiment with the Euro. Governments will fall over the shakeout flowing from this stupidity.

19 posted on 02/25/2006 5:12:28 AM PST by John Valentine
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To: albyjimc2

Interesting, educational topic. Thanks. Thanks to all linkers/contributors.


20 posted on 02/25/2006 5:13:37 AM PST by PGalt
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