Posted on 10/03/2005 2:17:10 PM PDT by lizol
And we are also alergic to any Russo-German agremments over our heads. ;)
"Of which middle man do we think? Be quick in your point Ivanov."
Dzieki thanks
"I'm not sure I understand, so forgive me. So, if we wanted to run a pipeline (assuming that it was technically feasible) directly from the US to Venezuela, bypassing Mexico, this would be a boycott of Mexico that would break the rule of free transit?"
The problem is, that I still don't know what "gorads" is.
I assume that every man prefers to be kicked in the head than in gorads. Did I guess?
Is it the thing, I think it is? Plural? I mean a pair? :-)))
All men would rather be kicked in the head than the gorads.
Yes
They can say "you don't like Russian policy? You don't have to like Russian gas either".==
So what? Poland will crush without russian gas?
You have coal after all. You then may mine coal and be absolutely independent. Isn't it good?
"Of which middle man do we think? Be quick in your point Ivanov."
Dzieki thanks ==
Who is bickering now more then everyone? That is middleman.
No transit fees about $1.5 blns will hurt everyone.
Well, at least you can hope that there´s no secret addition to the contract. :-) Seriously, I´m in tendency against this pipeline - but not because of Poland. Poland has no say here, the rights of Poland are not violated. I care about Germany, that my country could become dependant on Russian gas.
That is exactly why this mad idea of the common foreign policy must be forgotten.
I care about Germany, that my country could become dependant on Russian gas.
I read that Germany will be more depended of Russian gas than Poland is now. So you are rightfully worries :) But when we and Ukraine want to built pipeline to the Caspian region, there is no answer from Germany.
Where the heck are Polish RIGHTS violated? And what´s the connection to the EU? I see don´t see one.
Does Germany care about Ukrainian/Polish pipelines? I guess the answer is no. So what´s the fuss about?
Polish interests are violated, it is possible threat for us. European Commission support this project, there you have connection. Do what you want but forget about common foreign policy, this is my point.
Does Germany care about Ukrainian/Polish pipelines? I guess the answer is no. So what´s the fuss about?
Sorry but you are worried that Germany will be dependent of Russians. So theoretically you also have business to build this pipeline to the Caspian region. I’m just showing you that there was other possibility to get gas from completely new sources.
What´s the threat for you? That we get gas through the Baltic Sea? Do you fear the gas will leave the pipeline, enter Polish territory and attack your people?? ;-) I see no reason for concern, honestly. All we do is to avoid fees we would have to pay for transit countries. We save money, money that you want. That´s your "threat".
The EC supports it? Well, there´s a Polish Commissioner in that body, too. What has he done to prevent that decision? What? He too supported that pipeline? No. Really?
The fact is that Russia has a monopoly on oil and gas in almost all of Eastern Europe (and besides Norway and UK it has a monopoly on gas in all of EU) and certainly in Poland (90% of imports). The fact is also that Russia wants to regain its influence in post-Soviet area, i.e. Belarus and Ukraine. (Those two countries are crucial for the future of Europe). Poland is supporting the democratic and pro-Western movements there. If the pipeline goes through Poland it would be difficult for Russia to turn off the valve without antagonizing Poland's western allies. But when Russians have a direct link to Germany it will be very easy for them to say to Poles: "stop supporting Belorussians or we will cut off gas". And what would Germany do then? It would probably say to Poland: stop irritating Russia or otherwise bear the consequences. :-\
Poland defends itself from a situation exactly like this. Lukasz has called it a blackmail and he was right. I hope that you see now, Michael, what we Poles are worried about.
Oh, ok. So it´s not about transit fees but about Polands fear for a blackmailing Russia. Well, I don´t think that Germany would support Russia in such a case. The interests of Poland and Germany are the same: promoting peace, democracy and stability in all European countries.
This is what the newspapers and German diplomats say. But can we be sure that it will always be like that? The situation may change some time in the future and Poland wants to be secured against this. It would be very nice if EU were a one big family, but unfortunately it is not.
About transit fees: The Baltic pipeline project seems to be extremely expensive and it will take years before it is built. Germany and Russia will drown loads of money in the Baltic and maybe in 10 years one third of the oil that goes from Russia to Germany could come through it. I doubt that transit fees is the main reason for this project. Lithuania, Poland vexed and worried by German-Russian pipeline pact
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