Legal analyses show that Russian-German gas pipeline may be illegal.

Warsaw Business Journal ^ | 3rd October 2005

[A. Pole]

And if it will be, it will be for a short time only as it is written:

Seriously, I do not know which system is better suited for the kingdom of Antichrist, free market or socialism.

[marron]

the choice of the pipeline's route was the result of political premises, and not economic reasons.

The Baku Ceyhan pipeline was built using a route chosen for openly political reasons. There is nothing wrong with that. The 'Stans are developing a pipeline network that uses both Russian lines and lines that bypass Russia. Having competitive routes to market actually has the effect of removing politics from the equation.

India is struggling with a pipeline that may go through Pakistan, or may go offshore avoiding Pakistan. Politics plays very strongly in the final route of this pipeline.

That is only natural.

Ukraine has offered to make its soil available for pipelines west, and its selling point is that the pipeline would avoid Russia. Since politics in the region is still fairly volatile, neither side is wrong in wanting to avoid being blackmailed by a potential antagonist. The secret to energy independence, though, is multiple sources, multiple routes, competing pipelines.

[1rudeboy]

Check this out. A. Pole has become a free-trader, sovereignty be damned. Wonders never cease.

[1rudeboy]

Mr. Amsterdam is lucky he wasn't arrested, given the legal system in Russia.

[RusIvan]

Legal analyses have revealed that the document violates certain free trade principles. ==

What principles are violated? You cann't cut out middlemen?:)

[Grzegorz 246]

"I think the economic zones border each other."

But I think that economic zone is only about fishing, drilling oil etc. We can't even stop foreign ships outside the blue line.

[si tacuissem]

From the "United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Part V": Article58 Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

[A. Pole]

Check this out. A. Pole has become a free-trader, sovereignty be damned. Wonders never cease.

And why would you think so?

[1rudeboy]

I presumed you are in favor of the pipeline.

[A. Pole]

I presumed you are in favor of the pipeline.

I am not against trade.

[Lukasz]

Do not expect A.Pole ever supporting Poland.

[sergey1973]

"Mr. Amsterdam is lucky he wasn't arrested, given the legal system in Russia."


He is a Canadian citizen so it could be an International scandal if Russian authorities did that.

[A. Pole]

Do not expect A.Pole ever supporting Poland.

I think that it is in interest of Poland to have good relations with Russia, and with Germany etc ...

Now, were you in favor of building the new pipeline through the Polish territory as it was proposed by Russia and Germany a few years ago? Or do you want Germany and Russia not to trade one with another?

In year 2000 people like you managed to prevent the construction of pipeline going through Poland. See details at http://www.rosati.pl/prasa.php?id=8

[Lukasz]

So don’t you know that Gazprom is obligated to build this pipeline because they signed contract. Thanks to SLD policy they didn’t do it yet and don’t have such desire in the nearest future.

[lizol]

Like Russian authorities ever cared about that.

[lizol]

What principles are violated?

I don't know, my specialisation is criminal law, not international trade law.

But as far as I've read about it - according to international trade law Poland can try to prove, that the premises which are the base for the Russo - German contract were political, not economical ones, because if it was only about economy, about business - they would choose the cheapest version - the land based track for the pipeline.
International rules allow state owned companies to act with some limitations of free trade rules, but they must be limited to the minimum. Whereas the Baltic pipeline may cause the limitation of access to the gas for Poland, which will not be connected to it.

Polish authorities may also use an argument, that both Poland and Germany are independent countries, so the Russian decision about directing the pipeline straight to Germany - bypassing Poland - is an arbitrary one. That boycott of Poland brakes the rule of free transit and the decision is political, not economical.

These are not my thaughts, I've tried to translate informations given by the newspaper.

But there may be something in it, because today I've heard, that the Russian envoy to EU in Brussels announced during press briefing, that ... Poland will have its branch of the Baltic pipeline (which is something absolutley new).

[lizol]

I'm looking at it from my perspective - Polish and Eastern European - and the answer to your question is - because this pipeline is a threat for vital national interests of Poland and the Baltic states.

In case Russia has a pipeline, which allows transporting gas to the Western Europe bypassing Poland - they can anytime use it as a mighty geopolitical weapon. More powerful than tanks and missiles.

They can say "you don't like Russian policy? You don't have to like Russian gas either".

[BikerNYC]

I'm not sure I understand, so forgive me. So, if we wanted to run a pipeline (assuming that it was technically feasible) directly from the US to Venezuela, bypassing Mexico, this would be a boycott of Mexico that would break the rule of free transit?

[lizol]

I repeat I don't know.
But there may be some international regulations, that don't allow to make trade agreements, which are based on political, not economical premises. But I don't know them.
I was only trying to translate fragment of newspaper article.

[BikerNYC]

Okay. Thanks.