Why Islam Hates Christianity - (new column by Barbara Stock; why new Pope will be crucial choice)

OPINION EDITORIALS.COM ^ | APRIL 15, 2005 | BARBARA STOCK

[kosta50]

I was hoping you had the answer to that one!

I was not the one who made the proposal.You did.

In post #32, you state "The fact that [Islam] is growing so rapidly just makes it an imminent threat that must be taken seriously, exposed and destroyed. (IMHO)"

So, I would like to hear your "humble opinion" about just what are you proposing here.

First of all, what you are proposing is monstrous, monumental genocidal proposition of unprecedented proportions. The world has over one billion Muslims.

Second, there is nothing imminent or "unexposed" about Islam. It has been around for 1300 years. It has been opposed and beaten back and contained by Christian Europe over a course of centuries.

The current problem is the fact that Islam became radicalized and internationalized in the last 50 years. When you understand, hopefully, one day how and why, maybe then you'll be able to come up with a less idiotic proposition.

[elkclan]

On the point of an Islamic society - you bet, I agree - there would be few civil liberties left. But we can look back in time to when Christians were killing each other in Europe over relatively small differences in theology, never mind non-believers like myself. You might say we could never go back, but I believe that we have to stay constantly vigilant, lest we do.

I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt and there was a lot of pressure on 'free speech'. I've certainly felt pressure to keep my mouth shut for over evolution, abortion and the fact that I don't believe in God. There was constant and overwhelming societal pressure to go to church - though fair enough I wasn't dragged there (except by my mother).

More broadly, there are movements by so-called Christians in several state legistlatures against what I would call free speech and academic freedom (though these Bills are cleverly named things that seem to imply they support free speech) because they're trying to promote the teaching of "intelligent design" at University level. Others are encouraging pharmacists to deny people legal prescriptions, abortion clinic bombings, etc. etc, all based on their "Christian" morality. And what happens if you object to prayer in a public place...?

I don't think that these things are being promoted by people I would call good Christians. I was raised Christian, and there's a lot of good in Christianity - it's just not for me. What's also not for me is people moralising and legislating based on religion rather than rational discourse.

I don't live in the US anymore, but every time I visit my family I see how my country is changing, how it's becoming more militanty religious - and to me it's worrying. It's like building a fundamentalist society where your every act is governed by someone else's view of religion.

I'm fairly tolerant, I don't mind if someone else lives that way, but I don't want them to tell ME what to do based on THEIR holy writings. Nor do I feel I should have to go too far out of my way to accommodate someone else's religious sensitivities (but I'm a big believer in being polite!) Currently, we all have to tread carefully in the UK (where I live) not to offend Islamic sensitivities, in the US it's Christian sensitivities. If you don't, then you're called anti-Christian, Islamaphobic, etc.

Re. being anti-Islam, I wouldn't want to stop anyone from practicing Islam -I believe people should be free to practice their religion - in their private domain (home, church, etc.) even if I think it is a religion with little redeeming value. Because I believe our Western values of liberty are right and include a set of freedoms, including freedom to worship.

The threat to our country- and our Western values isn't from all Muslims or all people raised Muslim, but from fundamentalist Muslims who seek both peaceful and legal means and violence to force their way of life on others. But if to counter their ways, we restrict our own liberties, THEY have won. If people become more fundamentalist in their Christianity to counter this and ALSO try to alter others' behavior accordingly - I think we all lose. I think we fight fundamentalism and bad religion by being clear, rational, secular and tolerant and we fight the violent promotion of bad religion with effective, well-funded and well thought-out and fair law enforcement.

[The_Reader_David]

Welcome to FR (and I'm guessing to the Orthodox contingent here).

Struggle well! and Kalo Pascha!

[The_Reader_David]

Ah, a C.S. Lewis devote.

Lewis (if only on the basis of his little book The Abolition of Man) shows that the gift of prophecy is not lost in the West (even if it's a bit less impressive than the gift shown by recent Orthodox monastic elders).

I'm beginning to wonder whether the last of his children's novels doesn't contain a prophecy of the nature of the Antichrist--the 'Anti-Aslan' is a fraud supported by a Narnian arch-secularist and the Calormenes (thinly disguised Muslims), pushed on the basis of a 'we all worship the same god' syncretism.

[Gondring]

Howdy...

I am about to head out of town for a week (ages and ages in FR time), but I wanted to let you know that I think you're right on track about how the anti-liberty crowd is aiding the Islamicist movement, not stopping it.

[muir_redwoods]

" Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world (about 1 billion followers"

Are you sure of this? I have read recently that Christianity is vastly outpacing Islam in the world. Africa alone has more Christian converts that Islam world-wide.

The problem is one of double counting. Since it is a capital offense to abandon Islam, Muslims who convert to Christianity do not make a lot of noise about it and are still listed as Muslims by the local Muslim communities.

[jwh_Denver]

"Christians will close ranks and they will look to a single leader to guide them. More than likely, it will be the pope."

Yeah, right.

[iconoclast]

In this context, white raisins, mentioned often as hur, Mr. Luxenberg said, makes more sense than a reward of sexual favors..."

Lemme see if I got this straight, Fred. I thought they were beyond nuttiness before but you have opened up a whole new vista of the bizarre.

These half-baked barbarians are strapping bombs to themselves for 72 white raisins to be served up in a garden of flowing waters?

Drop in again sometime, Fred.

[CHARLITE]

"These half-baked barbarians are strapping bombs to themselves for 72 white raisins to be served up in a garden of flowing waters?"

They are taught, in their ubiquitous madrassas, that it's 72 virgins. According to Islamic scholars, (and/or authorities on the Koran), the virgin notion derives from a faulty interpretation (or copy/transcript) of the Koran, quite a long time ago. The original (it is claimed) says 72 raisins, although I've never heard just what's so special about white raisins.........and for sure, the radical recruiters of suicide bomb volunteers realized that fact also. As you rightly point out, no young male is going to blow himself up for raisins!

Therefore, if the correct "word of Allah" was "raisins," then the error in transcribing that changed the passage to "virgins" was in the interests of terror recruiters. So they left it that way. Makes sense........but only from the perspective of people with a mentality similar to those who believe in tooth fairies and Santa Claus.

[appalachian_dweller]

kosta50 & elkclan, if you don't believe islam is a direct and imminent threat, read up on what is being taught in the mosques in this country.

This is a pdf so you'll need acrobat reader or go to the freedomhouse.org website.
http://www.freedomhouse.org/religion/pdfdocs/FINAL%20FINAL%20Saudi.pdf

I'm all for religious freedom in this country; however, the teaching of islam do not mix with the freedoms of this country.

I'm sick of all this screaming about tolerance. IF THIS IS SUCH A TOLERANT COUNTRY HOW COME ALL SYMBOLS OF CHRISTIANITY ARE BEING SYSTEMACIALLY REMOVED FROM OUR SOCIETY? These same low life traitors that scream tolerance are only tolerate when you think the same as they do.

Open your eyes and look around at what's happening. If you don't feel threatened you have no idea of what's going on.

[appalachian_dweller]

>> we all have to tread carefully in the UK (where I live) not to offend Islamic sensitivities <<

Do you also have to thread carefully not to offend Christians? No? I didn't think so. Which 'religion' is more tolerant.

The reason muslims get offended when their beliefs are questioned is because the teachings of islam were written by a psychopathic, warmongering, pedophile who was under Satan's control.

I could care less what happened thousands of years ago. The past cannot be changed, the future is yet to be determined. I care about what happens today and what will happen tomorrow.

The only reason the muslims are playing nice right now is they do not have the power to force their beliefs on the rest of us. Read the koran, it's all in there.

I am tolerant of religions until they threaten violence. I may not agree with the teachings of other religions, but everyone is free to believe what they wish unless those beliefs lead to violence and subjugation of the innocent.

Again, do some research and find out what's really happening.

[kosta50]

Open your eyes and look around at what's happening. If you don't feel threatened you have no idea of what's going on

Spare me the sermon. Tell me what you you think we should do about it -- spell it out. You and and some others yell "fire" and just stand there.

Just tell us what is your solution to this threat. A genocide? Outlawing Islam? Get real!

I am tired of all you armchair philosophers "discovering" threats and having no solutions to offer.

[jan in Colorado]

When you understand, hopefully, one day how and why, maybe then you'll be able to come up with a less idiotic proposition

I would like to see Islam not classified as a religion and therefore not protected as a "religion" in this Country!

You won't like any of my other ideas either so I'm NOT going to waste your time.

Thanks for the "civil" debate.

[kosta50]

You won't like any of my other ideas either so I'm NOT going to waste your time

What a cop out! How generous of you! You don't even know what religion is. Islam is an organized faith. That makes it a religion, whether you or I like it or not. For the record, I don't like one bit of it. But Islam is a reality, whether we like it or not.

My ancestors were under Islamic rule for centuries. Yet it is America that seems to be helping the Muslims all over the world. We helped the Taliban. We helped the Bosnian Muslims. We helped the Kosovo drug trafficking Muslims. We are indirectly helping the Chechen Muslims. We are buddy-buddy with the seed of Islamic fundamentalism, the Wahhabi kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Spare me this nonsense. State your "plan" on just how you intend to "expose" (what nonsense -- Islam is standing out like a sore thumb and needs no more exposure than it already has), and destroy it (your own words). How do you propose to do that without committing genocide on an unprecedented scale? Do you even understand what you are suggesting? There are one billion-plus Muslims on this earth. Just how is your "final solution" for Islam going to proceed? Are you going to "outlaw" Islam? Or are you going to tax is out of existence?

Do me a favor, grow up first.

[Salman]

Yes, that's the same technique that everyone uses when there is a verse/command they don't like.

Muhammad as the 7th century's theological liberal. Hah!

But the Muslim thing goes quite a bit beyond that. Jesus avoided the cross and ended up in his native Arabia. Judas was crucified in his stead. So they say.

BTW Jesus' mother Miriam (Mary) was the very same Miriam as Moses' sister, thus cutting out all the post-Torah Jewish history.

Twisted Christianity, twisted Judaism, with a bit of Jahilia (pre Muhammad Meccan cult) thrown in. Mecca was a pilgrim's target before Muhammad. You may have heard the bit about Moon worship, but that's an over-simplification, though not entirely false.

Islam may be "Abrahamic", but it's a bizarre twist. A Satanic twist, maybe.

The notion of Arabs as descendants of Ismail is an Arab conceit, not supported by the Bible. Or anything else, but their say so.

[appalachian_dweller]

>> I am tired of all you armchair philosophers "discovering" threats and having no solutions to offer. <<

And I am tired of all you folks who give the death cult known as islam a free pass.

What to do:
1) Shutdown the borders using lethal force if necessary.
2) Suspend all immigration for 10 years.
3) Round up all illegal aliens and deport them.
4) Cease all aid programs to hostile countries (like france, NK, and all ME tyrannical regimes such as Syria and Iran)
5) Monitor mosques in this country. If they preach hate or incite violence, deport all who attend and raze the mosque.

Don’t hand me this crap about monitoring infringing on freedom of religion either. Monitoring what is being taught does not impede the freedom to worship. If the mulims don’t like it, we have another freedom, the freedom to LEAVE.

[jan in Colorado]

For the record, I don't like one bit of it. But Islam is a reality, whether we like it or not.

So, you don't believe Islam is a Religion of Peace?

Islam is standing out like a sore thumb and needs no more exposure than it already has

IF you believe it is a ROP then you're statement is correct.

I believe Islam is a threat to the future of this Country and there are many that still haven't got a clue.

We are buddy-buddy with the seed of Islamic fundamentalism, the Wahhabi kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Does this bother you? It outrages me. This is what I meant by expose. Why is this being tolerated?

Yes, kosta50, I am new here and still have a lot to learn. I didn't know to vent on FR or state my opinion meant I had to have a solution. I did make some statements that, after you pointed them out, I realize I shouldn't have made. There are many things I would "like" to see happen...the elimination of the ACLU, the borders closed, liberals shipped off...oh never mind...

Don't worry, I'm just a mom raising 3 kids trying to learn what we need to do to prevent another 9/11. I have no power to implement any of my radical ideas. And no, I don't want to commit genocide...actually, I'd like to see Muslim's rescued from Islam. I'll probably get slammed for that statement too.

Or are you going to tax it out of existence?

I'm against taxes.

Do me a favor, grow up first.

Learning from our mistakes helps us to grow, right? Seriously, I'm here to learn. Point out my mistakes, if you must, but there is no need to insult me.

Have a nice day!

[appalachian_dweller]

Here's more we can do:

6) Cut off ALL foreign aid to American colleges and universities
7) Any professors who encourage islam and denounce America are to be charged with and convicted of TREASON (if a citizen) or deported if alien.
8) Cut off ALL foreign funded political organizations such as moveon.org
9) Start teaching the vision of the founding fathers in elementary school and stop teaching how white Christian men are so evil.
10) Start teaching the Constitution of high schoolers.

[jan in Colorado]

If the mulims don’t like it, we have another freedom, the freedom to LEAVE.

Can we extend that invitation to the hate America crowd?

What happened to the liberals moving to Canada?

On a more important topic...

Prayers answered. Texas Cowboy is feeling good today!

[appalachian_dweller]

And further more, muslim countries do not allow Christian churches to be built in their counties. Doing so can get you killed. I say we reciprocate their behavior. I say we tear down every filthy mosque in this country.

You wanted some action items, now you have them.

When islam becomes tolerant of Christianity I'll become tolerant of islam.

Until then, you and islam can lick the bottoms of my feet.