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Black holes 'do not exist'
Nature ^ | 03/31/05 | Philip Ball

Posted on 03/31/2005 4:41:46 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

Black holes are staples of science fiction and many think astronomers have observed them indirectly. But according to a physicist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, these awesome breaches in space-time do not and indeed cannot exist.

Over the past few years, observations of the motions of galaxies have shown that some 70% the Universe seems to be composed of a strange 'dark energy' that is driving the Universe's accelerating expansion.

George Chapline thinks that the collapse of the massive stars, which was long believed to generate black holes, actually leads to the formation of stars that contain dark energy. "It's a near certainty that black holes don't exist," he claims.

Black holes are one of the most celebrated predictions of Einstein's general theory of relativity, which explains gravity as the warping of space-time caused by massive objects. The theory suggests that a sufficiently massive star, when it dies, will collapse under its own gravity to a single point.

But Einstein didn't believe in black holes, Chapline argues. "Unfortunately", he adds, "he couldn't articulate why." At the root of the problem is the other revolutionary theory of twentieth-century physics, which Einstein also helped to formulate: quantum mechanics.

(Excerpt) Read more at nature.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: artbell; blackholes; cosmology; cosmos; einstein; georgechapline; grayholes; quantummechanics; stephenhawking; stringtheory
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1 posted on 03/31/2005 4:41:46 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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To: silverleaf

cosmos ping


2 posted on 03/31/2005 4:43:25 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Black holes do not exists?

Obviously, someone hasn't looked inside Barney Frank's head.

3 posted on 03/31/2005 4:45:02 PM PST by Fiat volvntas tva
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Well, they do exist because we can observe their effects. But can they "exist" the way we understand existence?

Probably not.

And isn't it nice to know that scientists are willing to admit that they don't know it all?


4 posted on 03/31/2005 4:47:10 PM PST by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: PeterFinn

Times are changin'. :)


5 posted on 03/31/2005 4:47:46 PM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Science just keeps screwing up the best science fiction. First they told me that laser-guns and explosions in space wouldn't make any noise. And that faster-than-light travel wasn't possible, and even near-light travel would screw up peoples' ages relative to each other. That you couldn't have gravity on a ship to let you walk around, etc. Now this?

What's next? No Klingons?

6 posted on 03/31/2005 4:48:15 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Fiat volvntas tva
Obviously, someone hasn't looked inside Barney Frank's head.

Barney's head is very selective about what it "sucks in"!

7 posted on 03/31/2005 4:48:27 PM PST by Kimba
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Oh yeah? Well then where do our tax dollars go?


8 posted on 03/31/2005 4:49:40 PM PST by ElkGroveDan
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
But Einstein didn't believe in black holes, Chapline argues.

Einstein also believed that "God doesn't play dice" when in fact The Old Guy is an inveterate gambler.

9 posted on 03/31/2005 4:50:05 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Black Holes suck!


10 posted on 03/31/2005 4:50:38 PM PST by punster
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To: Dr. Frank fan

If you ever had a long haired dog, you would be well aware that Klingon will always exist.


11 posted on 03/31/2005 4:51:34 PM PST by edeal
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Another recent theory is that black holes are essential to galaxy formation. So who is correct?


12 posted on 03/31/2005 4:52:24 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (Liberalism: The irrational fear of self reliance.)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

So black holes don't exist, we're just seeing something that looks and acts like a black hole would, except for utilizing a different mechanism?

No matter what, it still sucks.


13 posted on 03/31/2005 4:53:46 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Only those without honor eat dead food, rather than making every meal a fight!)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Well this would just throw out about 60 years of cosmology.. Jeez.


14 posted on 03/31/2005 4:54:19 PM PST by G32
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
Sorry guys, but you'll have to resolve this one without me.

Every time I try to grasp quantum physics, event horizons, black holes and super-dense dark matter, my head starts to explode and I have to go find something I can deal with like digging a posthole or sorting my socks.

15 posted on 03/31/2005 4:54:52 PM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
70% the Universe seems to be composed of a strange 'dark energy' that is driving the Universe's accelerating expansion.

I AM THE FATHER OF 70% OF YOU.

16 posted on 03/31/2005 4:58:19 PM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

yeah im not buying this. I need to see some equations and evidence before I believe any of this. I have a background in physics and I get the impression that he doesnt understand some aspects about general relativity. The problem with quantum mechanics at the boundary comes most likely from the fact that we have no theory of gravitational quantum mechanics. I've noticed that some physicists when they cant explain something like to say its because of dark matter/energy


17 posted on 03/31/2005 5:02:58 PM PST by the right side jedi
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To: PeterFinn
And isn't it nice to know that scientists are willing to admit that they don't know it all?

Yes it is, and you often see it with astronomers, who also have a little-kid-excited attitude lots of times. The anti-ID folks in the life sciences just don't seem to have the same curiosity and humility, but I guess being grim defenders of Western Civilization against the Creationist Theocrats doesn't leave much room for fun.
18 posted on 03/31/2005 5:03:29 PM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo
I'm shattered. I mean, when you can't put your faith in an object of zero dimension, infinite surface gravity and incalculable spin connected by an instantaneous link to another point in the universe, what CAN you put your faith in?
19 posted on 03/31/2005 5:04:04 PM PST by Starve The Beast (I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused)
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

Of course black holes exist. That's where all of my money goes. Wait. That's taxes!


20 posted on 03/31/2005 5:07:04 PM PST by DakotaGator
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